Ryanair in 2015

[Passenger]

Please explain: what is pay to fly and how is it implemented in FR?

It's explained in an academic document that you can consult for free - see link in this post:
https://www.aviation24.be/forums/viewtopic ... 80#p319396

[sean1982]

No its not I'll tell you what pay to fly is:

During line training the pilot operates as a regular pilot together with a line training captain on a normal revenue-earning flight. He/she is now a fully productive crew member. When the airline demands the pilot to pay for this line-training (up to € 50.000)1 instead of earning a salary this is referred to as “Pay to Fly” (P2F)2 or “self sponsored line training”.

(This definition btw is taken from the website of one of your favourite unions: the european cockpit association)

That is pay to fly and is not done and has never been done at FR. Like I said FR does use contractors, like SN, JAF, etc ...

No clue at all my friend this is much more than what Google or the daily mail can tell you about

(Still waiting for your sources btw, no surprise that they dont come)

[Passenger]

Sean, you're behaving more and more like Sadam Housein's PR-minister with his famous quote on CNN "there are no American troops in Baghdad"

Just one of the zillion factual reports:

Ryanair pilots fly when they're unfit to fly. Because of the working conditions at Ryanair they feel a pressure to fly when unfit. Under European rules this is illegal. The pilots speak out in Thursday night's edition of Brandpunt Reporter. Professional organisations are requesting an investigation into the corporate culture of the Irish airline company. In Brandpunt Reporter three airline captains and one copilot tell their story. It turns out that Ryanair pilots are flying aeroplanes when sick or exhausted. "The corporate culture puts us in this position. It shouldn't be allowed to happen." A colleague adds: "If we don't fly, we don't get paid. So, if you're sick or unfit to fly or when you have personal problems, there will be consequences for your income."

http://reporter.kro.nl/seizoenen/2013/a ... y-are-sick

By the way, there is a very interesting development in this Ryanair versus KRO Reporter court case (a development you don't like, I guess). Too much to post here - I will post it in the relevant topic.

[sean1982]

You would call KRO or any newspaper factual? What about a safety report from EASA or any Investigation board in any european country FR operates into/from? (And btw it is far from pay to fly, what you claimed before)

Sure there are some unhappy employees within Ryanair, and off course the first thing to hit an airline is to try and bring down it's safety record. What's easier than hide your face in a sensationalist tv program, backed up by a "Ryanair pilot group" with a KLM pilot as chair man . But there are NO factual reports that FR is more unsafe than any other airline. In fact if you compare with air france for example (the most unionised airline in europe) ... Well you know the result. Or we can talk about a belgian airline where at least on one occasion, official duty times were manipulated in the official crewing system to allow an aircraft that was AOG to position back to BRU and the captain being threatened by a manager on the phone while on the ground in XXX if she refused to accept it. I dont do it cause there is no official record about it (besides than that the F/O sitting next to her is one of my best friends)

So please, show me an EASA report where it says black on White that FR is unsafe. Untill then you're the one who is comical Ali with making unsubstantiated claims based on tabloids and sensationalism

[airazurxtror]

Interview with Michael O'Leary in
http://trends.levif.be/economie/entrepr ... 05785.html

Excerpts :

- You said at the press conference on Wednesday that Brussels Airlines retreated, but the company is still experiencing a 12% growth ...
- That's great. I believe in the benefits of competition. I hope that Brussels Airlines will make money this year.

- They said so ...
- We want there be a strong secondary company in Belgium, where we are number one.

- You are number one in Charleroi, not in Zaventem!
- No, but it will come with time.

- Where do you see Ryanair in 5 years?
- We should carry 120-130 million passengers, of which 10 to 12 million in Belgium. Zaventem'll experience a good growth, Charleroi, a slight growth.

[OO-ITR]

He did mention a few more things apparently (in Dutch):
http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/nieuw ... rket=nl-be

(in poorly written Dutch)

So where is Ryanair promo manager on this site now, airazurxtror. You are the one saying that SN site was badly written in French. Any comments on this?

[airazurxtror]

You are the one saying that SN site was badly written in French. Any comments on this?

Brussels Airlines claim to be the Belgian national airline, and as such, its site should be correct in the two main languages of the country. I can't judge for Nederlands, but in French, it's badly written indeed.

Ryanair is an Irish company; its site in English is, as far as I can judge, correctly written.

[Stij]

And back to the news!

[OO-ITR]

You are the one saying that SN site was badly written in French. Any comments on this?

Brussels Airlines claim to be the Belgian national airline, and as such, its site should be correct in the two main languages of the country. I can't judge for Nederlands, but in French, it's badly written indeed.

Ryanair is an Irish company; its site in English is, as far as I can judge, correctly written.

Wrong again. Ryanair pretends to have a Belgian hub employing Belgians and being the biggest in Belgium.
So the languages on their website should be correct. NL and FR. NO EXCUSES

And yes. My post is ON topic. The title says Ryanair!!!

[sean1982]

Somebody has a pinched nerve

What's "pretending to have a HUB"? There are 21 aircraft based in belgium at the moment. How many do you need before you are no longer pretending?

[Stij]

21? I count 13 + 4 = 17...

Cheers,

Stij

[sean1982]

During winter Stij. Summer has 17 at crl (in fact the other 4 stay in CRL during winter but they act as spare aircraft)

[Stij]

Thanx for the clarifications!

Cheers,

Stij

[Inquirer]

Out of genuine personal interest:
The first national language of Ireland is NOT English, but Irish (Gaelic): does ryanair make active use of that official language of their country anywhere? They do not seem to have a website in it, but other than that maybe? Or does it have a status like German at Brussels airlines, and retoroman at Swiss only?

As to the hub discussion: when one doesnt offer connections, I dont think one uses the word hub.
Especially in the case of CRL + BRU , it would be utterly ridiculous due to the split nature.

[Stij]

During winter Stij. Summer has 17 at crl (in fact the other 4 stay in CRL during winter but they act as spare aircraft)

Could it be today only 13 were active at CRL?

Cheers,

Stij

[Stij]

As to the hub discussion: when one doesnt offer connections, I dont think one uses the word hub.
Especially in the case of CRL + BRU , it would be utterly ridiculous due to the split nature.

I think "Base" would be a better description indeed, although some people change planes with FR...

Cheers,

Stij

[sean1982]

Actually I think the figure of people who are taking "connections" in CRL is around 20%

Stij, not all aircraft fly everyday, depends on a day to day basis

[OO-ITR]

Somebody has a pinched nerve

What's "pretending to have a HUB"? There are 21 aircraft based in belgium at the moment. How many do you need before you are no longer pretending?

Sorry BASE but still, changing subject still doesn't excuse for the bad use of language on their site...

edited by moderator

[Flanker2]

Ryanair pilots fly when they're unfit to fly. Because of the working conditions at Ryanair they feel a pressure to fly when unfit. Under European rules this is illegal. The pilots speak out in Thursday night's edition of Brandpunt Reporter. Professional organisations are requesting an investigation into the corporate culture of the Irish airline company.

Sadly, this is not only a Ryanair problem.
Even at legacy airlines, a pilot calling in sick involves activating a standby pilot. As most pilots have to be standby X days per month, they know how inconvenient it is for the airline and the standby pilot.
Call it peer pressure or commercial pressure.

A good pilot should call in sick even if he has a mild cold, a light headache or even as little as a bad feeling.
But how many companies still have such a culture in place? In Europe almost none.

[Passenger]

As to the hub discussion: when one doesnt offer connections, I dont think one uses the word hub. Especially in the case of CRL + BRU , it would be utterly ridiculous due to the split nature.

Ryanair indeed has no “hubs”: they only use airports as a base for point to point flights.

Ryanair even refuses multiple tickets on own flights (let alone as feeder/add-on) because their operational system rejects the word “responsability”.

If Ryanair would accept transfer passengers, even on two FR-flights, they are responsible if the connection goes wrong, even if the reason for the delay is not their fault (example weather). When the first flight is delayed, they must choose: delay the second aircraft or let it go and rebook the transfer passengers. Delaying means that all other flights from that aircraft that day will be delayed. Let it go then? With just one or two flights per day to one destination and a load factor of 95%, it will be almost impossible to rebook stranded passengers the same day. Thus: hotel DBB at Ryanair’s expenses, or a taxi transfer to another FR airport.

Even when a connection is missed at busy main airports, they can't rebook passengers onto other airlines because they don’t have interline agreements for “Unvoluntary Reroutings” (a very common rebooking).

It’s this refusal of responsability that causes Ryanair is not used at add-on / feeder for long haul. Imagine a passenger returns two hours late from Kinshasa, and he misses his connecting FR flight to Poland. With two separate tickets, the long haul airline is not responsible for a delay within the EU-Rule 261/2004 time limit. But when the delayed passenger arrives at the FR gate, he will be treated as “too late, blame yourself”: he has to pay the “missed flight” surcharge (? 110 Euro) and he has to hope that there will be availability on the next FR flight.

But then, why would Ryanair accept more responsability? Their actual system with low fares and extremely high surchages and penalties works excellent - their nett profit raises year after year.