KLM to axe 7500 jobs?

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luchtzak
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KLM to axe 7500 jobs?

Post by luchtzak »

All over the www: KLM will axe 7500 jobs
Last edited by sn26567 on 29 Oct 2014, 16:39, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added a question mark

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sn26567
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by sn26567 »

I didn't know the MD11 was employing so many people :mrgreen:
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by Acid-drop »

how many % is that ?
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

Inquirer
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by Inquirer »

Allegedly, it's 1 out of 4.
Although, more detailed reporting is telling that it will likely be a combination of a modest number of lay offs, combined with much more outsourcing: axing jobs is something different from firing people.
If you spin off part of your tasks,, you are also 'axing' jobs, not by firing people but by outsourcing their jobs of course.
Was amazed to read about all the stuff KLM still does 'in house', btw.
Some more efficiency may indeed be at it's place there.

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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by nordikcam »

Acid-drop wrote:how many % is that ?
25% !!!!!!!!!! KL is paying cash the AF pilots strikes !

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RoMax
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by RoMax »

It's not just AF's fault. KLM is profitable, but they are moving away from it at a rapid pace because their high cost structure. With LCC competition increasing, especially easyJet, but possibly soon Ryanair in AMS...that's going to be a problem for them.

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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by Passenger »

KLM denies massive job cuts and states that most savings will be realized through outsourcing handling services (i.e. fueling, catering). Employees then won't loose their job if they move from KLM Refueling to Shell Schiphol. KLM says it will be cheaper for them to buy services from external suppliers, rather then doing it all themselves.

(the same principle as why Lufthansa has outsourced its IT services to IBM).

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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by sn26567 »

AIR FRANCE-KLM DENIAL

Following today's reports published in the Dutch newspaper "Algemeen Dagblad" and in yesterday's "De Telegraaf", Air France-KLM firmly denies the content of these articles.

While being in Financial Quiet Period, the announcement of Q3 results taking place tomorrow, the Group cannot let circulate pure speculation in the Dutch media, more especially false information and false figures.

Tuesday 28 October 2014
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by Flanker2 »

AF-KL is just run very poorly from top to bottom.
AF used to be such a great airline with great organisation, a great name. La classe.
Now AF rhimes with strikes, poor service, low quality and no realiability.

Same for KLM. Whatever happened to the confident Dutch Swan?
It's become a sitting duck for the likes of Ryanair and EK who is enjoying sending their A380's into AMS.

b720
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by b720 »

AF is still a very good airline.. I find their service superior to that of LH, which btw has had
Its share of strikes as well.. KLM offers a much inferior product than that of AF. The problem of AF is that it
Operating from France! For all the Parisian and French style and class, comes French red tape, unions, fiscal
Regime etc..

Passenger
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by Passenger »

Both airlines KLM and Air France have a four star rating for Product & Service Quality.
Therefore, there is no ground to call them bad or inferior airline(s).

KLM
http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/KL.htm

Air France
http://www.airlinequality.com/Airlines/AF.htm

b720
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by b720 »

With all due respect, those ratings are crap!

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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by OO-ITR »

Strange news esp since their in the middle of a selection of cabin crew...

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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by sn-remember »

Not only KL/AF but any major in the EU is having a more than rough ride against the ME3 airlines.
The fight is not equal since the gulf emirates, which support and own them, pour billions of dollars financing them (biut it's another debate).
And the European Union, which forbids any state help, and the member states that lost intereest in the airline business, blindly and stupidly let dismantle their own airline industry .. without even having set up a first line of defense (like Canada put in place from the begining). Admitedly the trafic rights are tentatively frozen with France and Germany .. but unfortunately too little too late ..
..
As for AF, I consider Spinetta who engineered the merger with KL (loss making at the time), and the subsequent Skyteam development, was a brilliant ceo. I would argue that the group's strategy since the merger has been consistently and competently run. Problem with AF indeed lies with the heavy structures inherited from the past and the difficulty in reforming that.
Also, the 2 airlines are not yet completely merged, duplication exists that create cost overheads

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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by sn26567 »

UNION BOSS SUGGESTING KLM COULD SPLIT FROM AIR FRANCE

KLM has to deal with a half a billion euro loss because of the pilot strike of Air France. According to trade union De Unie, a stand-alone, with KLM continuing without Air France, is a possibility.

Swen Laarveld from the union thinks that all options must be considered.

If the best plan is that KLM must break away from Air France, you have to seriously look at it. But I do not think that is the solution” said Laarveld on BNR yesterday.

Substantial cutbacks will have to be made at the airline after the loss they’ve suffered, otherwise they could be facing bankruptcy.

It is worrying. Air France-KLM is suffering heavy losses” says aviation expert Hans Heerkens of the Technical University Twente. “Aviation has never been a gravy train, so they are not the only ones. But the problem is that, as was also shown by the pilot strike, it is difficult for KLM to find an answer on the low cost carriers. Then there’s added that they will soon fly longer distances – that is even already underway. On those long distance routes airlines such as Air France-KLM, Lufthansa and British Airways make their profits. And they actually have no good answer on it.”

A stand-alone for KLM is “definitely not simply better”, says Heerkens. “Firstly it was not a merger but a takeover. So Air France is used to KLM being the boss and will not find it good if KLM continues alone. They will only find it good if there is a buyer who will shell out the money for this.”

http://www.nltimes.nl/2014/10/28/union- ... ir-france/
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by airazurxtror »

So Air France is used to KLM being the boss

Really ? I thought it was the other way round.
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by A318 »

Since 2004 KLM made a clean € 900 million profit.
Since 2004 Air France made a clean € 3.2 billion loss.

In reaction of the upcoming LCC, KLM reformed Transavia into a very good operating LCC.
In reaction of the upcoming LCC, Air France did..........nothing!

Now tell me, where do you think the main problem was/is the last 10 years?
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by sn-remember »

Air France is used to KLM being the boss
Funny ;)
I do not think that is the solution
That says it all ..
..
Not only a breakup is not the solution but it won't happen UNLESS the group AF/KL as a whole would decide so ..
There is as much chance they would do that as .. DL selling off their DTW operations.
..
So lets be serious ?
Since 2004 KLM made a clean € 900 million profit.
Since 2004 Air France made a clean € 3.2 billion loss.
You know how unreal this sort of numbers are .. The fact is that the accounting is very twisted, the group posts the most profit they can under the dutch legislation which taxes less. Add that KL (meaning the AMS based operations of the group) profits greatly from the merger.
In reaction of the upcoming LCC, KLM reformed Transavia into a very good operating LCC.
In reaction of the upcoming LCC, Air France did..........nothing!
Nope ..
You still reason as if there were 2 distinct entities KL and AF ... The reality is not so (although the merger is not totally complete yet, it's already largely done). I would argue that both Transavias HV and TO should merge into a single entity.
The fact is that the AFKL GROUP's strategy is developing currently around 3 "dividions"
1. the l/h : AF/KL
2. the s-m/h : HOP A5
3. the leisure : Transavia HV and TransaviaFrance TO
This strategy can be discussed and will certainly evolve rapidly. Already both Transavia's (HV and TO) mission tend to migrate towards Hop's. To the disappointment of AF pilots union who reacted in a beastly way. But don't assume KL crews are happy either with the prospects !
the problem is that, as was also shown by the pilot strike, it is difficult for KLM to find an answer on the low cost carriers. Then there’s added that they will soon fly longer distances – that is even already underway. On those long distance routes airlines such as Air France-KLM, Lufthansa and British Airways make their profits. And they actually have no good answer on it.
Replace KLM with AFKL and you have the real issue.
Last edited by sn-remember on 29 Oct 2014, 14:34, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by A318 »

Not really, AF bought KLM for 800 Million euro's, KLM had more money on it's bank account in that time so everybody was shocked about what happened knowing the bad history of AF.
KLM responded immediately on the LCC, first with Buzz, after that with Basiqair which was later integrated into Transavia when they sold the 757's.
Everybody knows who is to blame about the very bad results, even the new figures from today show that KLM made profit, Transavia made profit but Air France lost again.
Here are the latest figures announced today:

Air France: Operational loss 21 million euro
KLM: Operational profit 232 million euro
Transavia: Operational profit 62 million euro

So again Air France is the losing party here for 10 years in a row!
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Re: KLM to axe 7500 jobs

Post by Inquirer »

AF-KL lost 330m due to the pilot strike of last month, not 500m like it first estimated.

http://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/luchtvaar ... 2-3085.art

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