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jan_olieslagers
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by jan_olieslagers »

And Waterford is Ouattrefort :lol:

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Bruspotter
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by Bruspotter »

Hello, all

Yes indeed it's a pity to hear that SSJ is delayed to Q3 2016 as in VLM all where awaiting the so much-spoken-about SSJ delivery in April/May, but somehow the feeling was that it was going to be delayed anyway. The last couple of weeks the news was 'in the air' that the deal would be off so somehow (despite some dissapointment about the HUGE delay of 1,5 years) it was good news that there still was a chance for a new aircraft somewhere in the near future.

For the moment though they have to cope with the fleet of 12 Fokker 50's which still do their job very well, only they are a bit more limited in range and capacity and speed (and comfort, yes ... if you like ... ) in comparision with the SSJ-100.
Also for the moment VLM unfortunatly isn't in the luxury-position of choosing it's destinations as they would rather like, they literally have to seek 'work' anywhere they can to keep as much of the aircraft flying. The past half a year where the transition from CityJet operations to own operations, and that meant that slowly but sure all the contracted routes from CityJet where ended, resulting in a big part of the fleet not having any routes to fly. In the mean time quite some of that has been recuperated by opening new routes as from April. However, with in the next weeks more routes to be dropped (end March = start of summer season) flewn for CityJet, they have to keep seeking new markets, wherever they are.
As VLM still seeks a new identity and a new estabished market in the business segment (like they used to do) they keep working with loyal clients like Aviation Factory (through Vizion Air, currently by OO-VLP) and other brokers, charter company's ... so there are where already quite some business flights (the VLM owned routes) and business charters (company charters, sports-teams, political charters, ...), only the leasure flights are new, but not so weird if you consider that Jetairfly is starting this very market for the first time in decades out of Antwerp ... they might be testing for possible future ANR-leasure flights. But we should not forget that VLM is still limited in operation out of ANR for both leasure as other flights, due to runway length so the range of destinations is limited (though still large enough). Of course, same goes for Jetairfly.

For the moment it's a mess but the main thing is that they keep flying and earn some true money to build-up for the future. Hoping for all the best, and looking forward to those delayed Rus-busses ;)

Greets,

VLM_Antwerp
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by VLM_Antwerp »

liege-bierset wrote:
VLM_Antwerp wrote:VLM opens new routes in Waterford (Ireland). 4x a week to Birmingham and 12x a week to London Luton. When are they going to see the potential in Antwerp Airport instead of opening new routes in Luik, Rotterdam and Waterford? :cry:
Liège in English is "Liege" and not Luik. ;)
I know, It was my spellingcorrector! But thanks... :)

VLM_Antwerp
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by VLM_Antwerp »

Bruspotter wrote:Hello, all

Yes indeed it's a pity to hear that SSJ is delayed to Q3 2016 as in VLM all where awaiting the so much-spoken-about SSJ delivery in April/May, but somehow the feeling was that it was going to be delayed anyway. The last couple of weeks the news was 'in the air' that the deal would be off so somehow (despite some dissapointment about the HUGE delay of 1,5 years) it was good news that there still was a chance for a new aircraft somewhere in the near future.

For the moment though they have to cope with the fleet of 12 Fokker 50's which still do their job very well, only they are a bit more limited in range and capacity and speed (and comfort, yes ... if you like ... ) in comparision with the SSJ-100.
Also for the moment VLM unfortunatly isn't in the luxury-position of choosing it's destinations as they would rather like, they literally have to seek 'work' anywhere they can to keep as much of the aircraft flying. The past half a year where the transition from CityJet operations to own operations, and that meant that slowly but sure all the contracted routes from CityJet where ended, resulting in a big part of the fleet not having any routes to fly. In the mean time quite some of that has been recuperated by opening new routes as from April. However, with in the next weeks more routes to be dropped (end March = start of summer season) flewn for CityJet, they have to keep seeking new markets, wherever they are.
As VLM still seeks a new identity and a new estabished market in the business segment (like they used to do) they keep working with loyal clients like Aviation Factory (through Vizion Air, currently by OO-VLP) and other brokers, charter company's ... so there are where already quite some business flights (the VLM owned routes) and business charters (company charters, sports-teams, political charters, ...), only the leasure flights are new, but not so weird if you consider that Jetairfly is starting this very market for the first time in decades out of Antwerp ... they might be testing for possible future ANR-leasure flights. But we should not forget that VLM is still limited in operation out of ANR for both leasure as other flights, due to runway length so the range of destinations is limited (though still large enough). Of course, same goes for Jetairfly.

For the moment it's a mess but the main thing is that they keep flying and earn some true money to build-up for the future. Hoping for all the best, and looking forward to those delayed Rus-busses ;)

Greets,
You're right, just let us hope there is a bright future for both VLM and Antwerp Airport ;)

Boavida
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by Boavida »

Antwerp Airport should do something about its old and ugly infrastructure. It is such an unattractive airport. Seriously, does this look like the entrance of an airport!? https://www.google.be/maps/@51.188867,4 ... Th721Q!2e0
I have seen better airport infrastructure in Africa...

The difference with regional airports in Wallonia is huge: they have modern terminals with great facilities: https://www.google.be/maps/@50.64234,5. ... zXmICQ!2e0

I think it's logical VLM choses a modern airport for its expansion. If Antwerp Airport wants to stay in the game they should build a new, modern terminal.
Last edited by Boavida on 09 Mar 2015, 22:30, edited 1 time in total.

VLM_Antwerp
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by VLM_Antwerp »

Boavida wrote:Antwerp Airport should do something about its old and ugly infrastructure. It is such an unattractive airport. Seriously, does this look like the entrance of an airport!? https://www.google.be/maps/@51.188867,4 ... Th721Q!2e0

The difference with regional airports in Wallonia is huge: they have modern terminals with great facilities: https://www.google.be/maps/@50.64234,5. ... zXmICQ!2e0

I think it's logical VLM choses a modern airport for its expansion. If Antwerp Airport wants to stay in the game they should build a new, modern terminal.
Beautyful expensive terminals without any PAX.... Great investments, don't you think? #Liege :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by VLM_Antwerp on 09 Mar 2015, 22:33, edited 1 time in total.

Boavida
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by Boavida »

^^ Well, thanks to its investments Liège Airport is attracting more and more passenger airlines (like VLM). Liège is also a big cargo hub. There's no reason to laugh about them. They're doing great, Antwerp is not.

VLM_Antwerp
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by VLM_Antwerp »

Boavida wrote:^^ Well, thanks to its investments Liège Airport is attracting more and more passenger airlines (like VLM). Liège is also a big cargo hub. There's no reason to laugh about them. They're doing great, Antwerp is not.
I think Liege will always be a cargo airport, there is no room in Wallonia for a second Charleroi in Liege... and neither this will happen in Antwerp! With some modernization and new infrastructure Antwerp could become the Flemish equivalence of Rotterdam or London city Airport! And yes there is more potential in Antwerp than Ostend and Liege because the city is almost 3 times bigger than Liege and 8 times bigger than Ostend + all the big businesses... Diamonds, Port of Antwerp, Fashion, ... ;)

Boavida
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by Boavida »

I absolutely agree Antwerp has great potential, but nobody seems to care. Flanders should invest more in Antwerp Airport. To begin with a new modern terminal next to the R11, away from the old terminal. (Just like they did in Charleroi)

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lumumba
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by lumumba »

Antwerp Airport is to close to the city to grow.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

VLM_Antwerp
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by VLM_Antwerp »

lumumba wrote:Antwerp Airport is to close to the city to grow.
I don't agree on that, it is indeed to close to grow big. But it's perfect to operate regional/european destinations with small to medium sized airplanes. As they do in London City Airport, they are the best example to prove that it's possible. :D

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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by Bruspotter »

Hi,

Nice to use LGG as example knowing they where subsidised by walloon government (just like CRL) and their budget was lot bigger.
ANR has been left aside for decades..they are only FINALLY trying to recover so they dont have yet a lot of revenue money to use for big things.

Dont forget as well...the only terminal building cant be made larger as there is no space + its a protected monument as ANR has a rich history probably going back more then 100y, more then can be said of any other airport in the whole country.

Infrastructure is maybe small en inadecate for modern traffic but its reallyall they CAN have. They recently renovated/cleaned the main terminalbuilding and did the same interior wise (already years ago).
For an old terminal building out of the great-wars times i think it looks decent now. Invite you all to come and have a look. For yourselve.

To stay further on topic...sure ANR has some good future ahead with VLM on routes they can fly from there..it will only take some time.

Greets

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lumumba
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by lumumba »

VLM_Antwerp wrote:
lumumba wrote:Antwerp Airport is to close to the city to grow.
I don't agree on that, it is indeed to close to grow big. But it's perfect to operate regional/european destinations with small to medium sized airplanes. As they do in London City Airport, they are the best example to prove that it's possible. :D


That is a political choise I don't think it's a good one the city will suffer to much, in London City you have water around .
Here it's not it's croudly plus the Brussels Airport has still a lot of space to grow .
And now you have a very easy train connection.
People from Berchem will never accept that believe me I have a lot of friends there,you cannot destroy a good quality of life like that .
And there are not Nimbi's.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Acid-drop
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by Acid-drop »

Beautyful expensive terminals without any PAX.... Great investments, don't you think? #Liege :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well, this terminal is under-used, but it's not exactly empty. Liège was the 3rd airport of the country for the last 10 years if i'm not mistaken.
Image
the pax trafic isn't that low ... and since MST is falling appart, LGG is the biggest airport in a 100km radius.
In fast, the whole euregio is the catchment area, that's 4 millions people.
Image
Doesn't look like a stupid move from VLM, does it ?
there is more potential in Antwerp than Ostend and Liege because the city is almost 3 times bigger than Liege and 8 times bigger than Ostend + all the big businesses... Diamonds, Port of Antwerp, Fashion, ...
Antwerp metro area is 1.2M people, Liège metro area is 600.000 people. So double not 3 times. Euregio is 4 millions, that's not small.
But as mentioned, ANR is small, close to the city and ... more importantly way too close to zaventem.
Check this map (distance in km from zaventem) :
Image
It's clear the south east of the country would benefit more from an alternative airport.
I think Liege will always be a cargo airport, there is no room in Wallonia for a second Charleroi in Liege...
Another Charleroi, no way. But a limited choice of cleverly picked destinations, it could easily work.
The hidden goal is 1M pax / year, which is more than double from now, it's already very optimistic while it's not exactly a crazy unrealistic wish.

EDIT: It seems now LGG will have charters to ... China !
If VLM knew this in advance, this could explain that.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

Flanker2
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by Flanker2 »

Sorry but the only thing going for Liege is that you can go anywhere from there to the rest of Europe very easily. That's why cargo makes sense.

As far as pax goes, you have Koln/bonn and MST across the borders, so forget it.
The population density is also far too low compared to the region of Antwerp and Breda.

Regarding industry and business, Liege is not nearly as significant as Antwerp. There are a few logistics centers and FN Herstal, but what else is there really?

Antwerp's 1.2 million metro is even larger if you consider the fact that it's the closest airport for Dutch Zeeland and coastal regions of Belgium. From Knokke or Brugge, it's far more practical to drive to Antwerp with the E34 than Brussels as there is only one bottleneck, the Kennedytunnel. And you can avoid even that if you take the tunnel that goes into the city. If there are decent routes out of ANR, people in Gent will use it as the first choice.

IMO ANR has the same catchement area as BRU, only that it shifts 50 kilometers North, while still including Brussels. Many people living in Brussels are flying out of CRL, so why wouldn't they fly out of ANR that is much closer to Brussels?

Image
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8026/7544 ... 5bf9_z.jpg

Last but not least, the Antwerp area's population is much wealthier compared to Liege and I mean in nett wealth terms, not only income (which only gives part of the picture).

ANR can be very succesful and a feared competitor for BRU.
IMO there is plenty of room for terminal expansion, if you move Abelag and the baseball fields around the airport. I personally don't give a shite about ANR's terminal building's history, culture and business only meet at the museum.
It's not necessary to build a terminal like Liege, a modest one would do fine, but it has to look like an airport, not a tax office.
Last edited by Flanker2 on 10 Mar 2015, 14:55, edited 1 time in total.

Acid-drop
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by Acid-drop »

yes, it has a big catchment area, but it's all about being the only airport in a radius of 100km.
Ryanair has proven that : the market is everywhere. Every 100km radius, you can have an airport. ARN and LGG. Both if needed.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

VLM_Antwerp
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by VLM_Antwerp »

Acid-drop wrote:
Beautyful expensive terminals without any PAX.... Great investments, don't you think? #Liege :lol: :lol: :lol:
Well, this terminal is under-used, but it's not exactly empty. Liège was the 3rd airport of the country for the last 10 years if i'm not mistaken.
Image
the pax trafic isn't that low ... and since MST is falling appart, LGG is the biggest airport in a 100km radius.
In fast, the whole euregio is the catchment area, that's 4 millions people.
Image
Doesn't look like a stupid move from VLM, does it ?
there is more potential in Antwerp than Ostend and Liege because the city is almost 3 times bigger than Liege and 8 times bigger than Ostend + all the big businesses... Diamonds, Port of Antwerp, Fashion, ...
Antwerp metro area is 1.2M people, Liège metro area is 600.000 people. So double not 3 times. Euregio is 4 millions, that's not small.
But as mentioned, ANR is small, close to the city and ... more importantly way too close to zaventem.
Check this map (distance in km from zaventem) :
Image
It's clear the south east of the country would benefit more from an alternative airport.
I think Liege will always be a cargo airport, there is no room in Wallonia for a second Charleroi in Liege...
Another Charleroi, no way. But a limited choice of cleverly picked destinations, it could easily work.
The hidden goal is 1M pax / year, which is more than double from now, it's already very optimistic while it's not exactly a crazy unrealistic wish.

EDIT: It seems now LGG will have charters to ... China !
If VLM knew this in advance, this could explain that.
1M pax/ year is indeed an optimistic goal for Liege, But also for Antwerp! Antwerp will never grow bigger than 1.5-2M PAX.

VLM_Antwerp
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by VLM_Antwerp »

lumumba wrote:
VLM_Antwerp wrote:
lumumba wrote:Antwerp Airport is to close to the city to grow.
I don't agree on that, it is indeed to close to grow big. But it's perfect to operate regional/european destinations with small to medium sized airplanes. As they do in London City Airport, they are the best example to prove that it's possible. :D


That is a political choise I don't think it's a good one the city will suffer to much, in London City you have water around .
Here it's not it's croudly plus the Brussels Airport has still a lot of space to grow .
And now you have a very easy train connection.
People from Berchem will never accept that believe me I have a lot of friends there,you cannot destroy a good quality of life like that .
And there are not Nimbi's.
Indeed I know a lot of people in Berchem that won't like the airport to grow, I also know a lot of people there that would love a bigger airport nearby. And to be honnest, I don't care! The airport was there first and that's why everybody could buy cheaper houses! So please stop whining about the noice, the biggest possible airplane landing in Antwerp is probably an EMB195... They don't make a lot of noice though 8-)

azingrew
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by azingrew »

Thank you Acid drop, you summed up the Liège situation very well. I do not think the city of Liège itself provides a lot of passengers for the airport, so the fact that it is a relatively small city doesn't really matter. I drove relatives of mine last week for their flight to Tenerife and had a look at the new long term parking lot,( on the other side of the Namur "autoroute") and it showed a majority of foreign cars! , mostly Dutch, a few German but more surprisingly quite a few french ones ( from the "54" and "59" department) . Also a minivan dropped a group from Luxembourg. As far as the new destinations go, don't know what to think. I have my doubts. I have a regular customer for Avignon ( up to now he flew Ryanair to Nîmes) who will be interested but the other cities...The major problem I see is the F50. Despite what Flanker thinks and campaigned for, the general public hates propellers which are often assimilated to " old" planes. We'll see.

Stij
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Re: VLM Airlines taken over by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by Stij »

azingrew wrote:The major problem I see is the F50. Despite what Flanker thinks and campaigned for, the general public hates propellers which are often assimilated to " old" planes. We'll see.
Old isn't a problem... slow is!

Cheers,

Stij

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