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Avnu
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management

Post by Avnu »

skumfiduse wrote:We all know what happened when VLM joined one of the other competitors. They seem to recover well from that hangover. Don't expect them to join any other merge-party in the near future. Although you never know in airline business.
Valid points. But the way I understand it, being a franchise partner is quite a few steps away from a merger or acquisition (besides, I have much moire faith in BA than I do in AFKL, but that's another discussion I guess :) ). If you look at Comair in South Africa, they happily operate their own brand (Kulula) and business strategy together with their role as 'BA operated by Comair'. At the same time, BA recently used Sun-Air to launch flights between London City and Hamburg. I won't labour the point, but IMHO there are quite a few additional routes that BA could develop this way and where VLM might have a role to play. Not as part of a big group but as a preferred partner with a solid but - if need be - cancellable contract.

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skumfiduse
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management

Post by skumfiduse »

VLM has selected the SSJ100LR as a replacement for their Fokker 50.

Initially a lease of 2 aircraft, options for 2 more and purchase rights for another 10.

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... or-405339/

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A318
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management

Post by A318 »

Gna gna gna like I said:"be a leader not a follower" ;)
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Inquirer
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Re: VLM Airlines eerste Europese gebruiker Sukhoi Superjet

Post by Inquirer »

Russian planes just because thee want to reach TLV from antwerp, maybe? ;)

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Re: VLM Airlines eerste Europese gebruiker Sukhoi Superjet

Post by tangolima »

Inquirer wrote:Russian planes just because thee want to reach TLV from antwerp, maybe? ;)
Hello

You can also reach TLV out of ANR with an Embraer 190 (Max range 2400nm) ANR-TLV = 1766nm

Greetings,
All my posted timings are local !

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sn26567
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management

Post by sn26567 »

They probably got a very good deal from the Russians of Sukhoi, eager to introduce their flagship aircraft in the Western world. But will passengers easily accept flying a Russian aircraft ?

And why couldn't VLM find another bank than Ilyushin Finance to fund the deal? Does it mean that Western banks are wary of the financial health of VLM?
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eurojet
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management

Post by eurojet »

Being a bit of a " Russian sanctions expert" myself in my sector, good luck with this .. Nothing against the plane, but I hope they have a good view on the current situation and its context ...

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Re: VLM Airlines eerste Europese gebruiker Sukhoi Superjet

Post by sn-remember »

I knew the ssj-100 would make it in the western european skies ..
Now VLM being the pioneer is smewhat a surprise ..
Are they sufficiently confident regarding the maintenance issue and spares availability ?
Anyways they start with a leasing .. wonder why they want the lr for though .. ? I am not convinced about tlv although I know there would be a small demand ..
An interesting move, wish them well ..

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RoMax
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management

Post by RoMax »

sn26567 wrote: And why couldn't VLM find another bank than Ilyushin Finance to fund the deal? Does it mean that Western banks are wary of the financial health of VLM?
I don't think there are many financial instutitions/lessors wanting to invest in these aircraft given the difficulties between the US/Europe and Russia and even more so because it's a risky investment. Even if VLM has a quite solid position, things can go wrong and there will be very few (if existing at all) alternative customers in the western world.

Ilyushin Finance has numerous SSJ's in ownership and on order, it's normal that they can give the best deal to VLM. Especially in a first phase where they just want to start with leasing a low amount of these aircraft with eventually the option to buy up to ten aircraft.

b720
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by b720 »

I think that it is fantastic news for VLM.. they probably got a deal that is hard to refuse.. it could also mean the breakthrough of the SSJ..

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RoMax
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Re: VLM Airlines eerste Europese gebruiker Sukhoi Superjet

Post by RoMax »

sn-remember wrote: Anyways they start with a leasing .. wonder why they want the lr for though .. ? I am not convinced about tlv although I know there would be a small demand ..
In Flightglobal it is said that besides the pax comfort of the SSJ, the performance of the LR version on short runways such as ANR, was the main decisive factor. The LR version must have a much better payload performance (also on shorter routes that the normal version could do as well) on short runways.

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CTBke
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Re: VLM Airlines eerste Europese gebruiker Sukhoi Superjet

Post by CTBke »

maybe for charter operations as well.. surprised they didn't choose the Embraer as they visited VLM a couple of years ago..
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management

Post by Inquirer »

sn26567 wrote:They probably got a very good deal from the Russians of Sukhoi, eager to introduce their flagship aircraft in the Western world. But will passengers easily accept flying a Russian aircraft ?

And why couldn't VLM find another bank than Ilyushin Finance to fund the deal? Does it mean that Western banks are wary of the financial health of VLM?

Maybe western banks are not able to engage in financial lease constructions with Russian aviation companies due to the EU sanctions? I remember Aeroflot had to close down their low cost subsidiary because of the sanctions even. I agree with you it's all very tricky: Russian planes, Russian financing.
How sure is the maintenance going to be if the situation in Ukraine escalates further and sanctions are increased? Sounds all a bid uncomfortable to me.
An embraer would have been a more reassuring choice, but the question is: can it reach Tel Aviv from antwerps short runway (I bet that's the route they want to launch but first need approval for, as they say) and at what cost do these proven planes come?
Anyway: good luck with it and let's hope they don't need it.
Nice addition to our skies for spotters for sure. :)
Fingers crossed it doesn't fall through.

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CTBke
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by CTBke »

according to Wikipedia they have an option for 10 more jets . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Sup ... deliveries
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RoMax
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by RoMax »

CTBke wrote:according to Wikipedia they have an option for 10 more jets . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Sup ... deliveries
It starts with 2 aircraft, option to lease 2 more and "purchase rights" for 10 aircraft.

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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by DIBO »

the LR version doesn't perform better on short rwy's, it's the same plane/thrust, just higher MTOW:

Code: Select all

SSJ100/95B
Takeoff field length (MTOW) 5,679 ft 1,731 m
Landing field length (MLW)  5,348 ft 1,630 m
SSJ100/95LR
Takeoff field length (MTOW) 6,732 ft 2,052 m
Landing field length (MLW)  5,348 ft 1,630 m

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RoMax
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by RoMax »

DIBO wrote:the LR version doesn't perform better on short rwy's, it's the same plane/thrust, just higher MTOW:

Code: Select all

SSJ100/95B
Takeoff field length (MTOW) 5,679 ft 1,731 m
Landing field length (MLW)  5,348 ft 1,630 m
SSJ100/95LR
Takeoff field length (MTOW) 6,732 ft 2,052 m
Landing field length (MLW)  5,348 ft 1,630 m
This table doesn't make anything more clear. Therefore you should look to a similar TOW that both aircraft can do and how they perform in that case. For example the MTOW of the LR version is higher than that of the B version, so how does the LR version perform operating at a weight that's similar to the MTOW weight of the B version? With a runway of just over 1,500 m that's what it's all about, being able to carry a higher payload on the same (short) runway length.

But anyway, I just said what VLM commented on why they chose the LR version.

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A318
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by A318 »

Passenger comfort compared to EMB190 is higher since the cabin is much wider.
To be honest how Russian is the Sukhoi? Thales (France) is in, Boeing is in and the Italians are in.
It is more an european plane then just Russian.
Great move! :mrgreen:
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DIBO
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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by DIBO »

@RoMax: you're right, the LR does seem to have higher thrust ratings, my mistake. So same take-off weight should give better take-off run figures on the LR. So indeed, better choice for ANR.
Last edited by DIBO on 29 Oct 2014, 16:07, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: VLM Airlines bought by management, buys SSJ100 aircraft

Post by Inquirer »

DIBO wrote:@RoMax: you're right, the LR does seem to have higher thrust ratings, my mistake. So same TOW should give better TOR figures on the LR. So indeed, better choise for ANR.
That's Chinese to me, i am afraid.
Care to translate into something understandable, like: how far car this plane fly from Antwerp's airport? :mrgreen:
And how much better is that than an embraer?
One thing is good: it has a wider cabin!
I hate those 2 times 2 seats next to each other cabins in long flights!

Another interesting question from yesterday which hasn't been answered yet and which we'd almost forget about because of this very exciting news today: who's money is used to buy out INTRO in the first place?
Surely not Russian money too? If it is, it would explain a lot. ;)

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