Do SN have any plans for expanding their long haul fleet?

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killerwhale65
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Re: expantion of SNBA

Post by killerwhale65 » 08 Jul 2004, 13:57

carambole wrote:Brussels has got 10 million inhabitants yes
WOW since when?
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chunk
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Re: expantion of SNBA

Post by chunk » 08 Jul 2004, 14:10

I don;t think the size of the population is the critical factor here - Amsterdam is not a big place either. The big difference is that KLM has the world renowned brand name that has been in existence for 90 or so years and therefore attracts the transit passengers.

I don;t know the reasons (other than Swissair) for Sabena's demise but they were a world known brand name too - and they could have possibly grown from the position SN are in now with that name. The problem is that SN are not known (outside continental Europe and Africa) and don;t have a near bottomless money pit to remedy that situation (such as Qatar or Emirates). If SN started flights to say Aberdeen for example ( no chance!!!) the first question people would ask is who are they? I suspect joining Oneworld wouldn;t help them either - yeah like BA wants competition on transit routes....you saw what it did to BCal in the 80's. The approval of AF/KLM would just make SN an easier target.

Stick to the niche and grab the opportunities when the arise...markets are too saturated to create demand for the most part just now.

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Avro
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Re: expantion of SNBA

Post by Avro » 08 Jul 2004, 19:02

It's very hard to predict the future like we are doing now. If one company other than SN does something for example buying another company, it could have a BIG influence on all the other airlines.

I agree with chunk that SN isn't known everywhere in the world, but in Africa they are already well known for their quality and for there punctuality. In Europe I have the impression that they are getting more and more known every day by now. I agree it's not easy for a very small airline to establish itself and to have a good corporate image, but IMHO SN managed to achieve this in a very short period. Further on I would like to say that you can't get known somewhere in the world if you don't fly there, besides you're one of the 4 or 5 major world airlines that everybody knows. This means that SN has to start some flights to Asia IF they want to get known there. It's not vice versa that it would happen.
chunk wrote: I don;t know the reasons (other than Swissair) for Sabena's demise but they were a world known brand name too
The major reason isn't Swissair but the belgian government.

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Bru and belgian airlines are bad players

Post by ERICAIRLINES » 08 Jul 2004, 19:47

I'm not against Bru neither against Sn(ex sabénien),but let recognize that Belgium is a big zero in the airlines industry now!!Who can explain me why countries like Austria,Switzerland,and let say Finland have such airlines like OS,LX..and Finnair with such large long hauls networks??Vienna,Helsinki and Geneva / Zurich are all smaller than Brussels and population of those countries are smaller !!How do they manage to fly with success to destinations like:tokjo,osaka,joburgh,hong kong,beijing,shangai,singapore,montreal,toronto,washington,bangkok,etc....Explanation that Bru is not a big market enough has no sense at all !!Catching area of those airlines is simply....europe and the world !!They still take risks(less lx..),though it is still possible to dream about the return of long hauls flights out of Bru !We are not worst than the others!!And Brussels is a much more important and international destination really in the centre of europe,more than those above cited cities..capital of the Eu,NATO headquarters,and more than 1000 multinational with big rep in the area...wake up Belgium,we lost the battle for the moment but maybe not 'the war'...We have a very good facility now with Bru,with good potential in terms of capacity,a good trains and tgv network a few kms from the airport,a rich country,a bad weather ,making people traveling more to sunny places...what do you thing about those not so small airlines from not so small countries taking the lead around us ?

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Post by vince1975be » 08 Jul 2004, 21:38

I agree that it would be stupid from SN to sit back and relax and see what's happening on the long haul market... Yesterday I've read an article in Trends (Belgian business mag) quoting that the Asian economy is about to boom and airline routes to there are getting very profitable (statement from a major investment bank). So, SNBA should definitely start to develop a small but solid long haul network to major destinations like NY, Toronto, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc. In this way they (and BRU) will attract people from around the globe; people who will start to recognize SNBA as a high quality airline and BRU as an efficient and modern airport.

But like others already mentioned in this forum, it's all about their strategy. If they want to stay a descent European player with their African network as a profitable "add-on", that's fine but then BRU should urgently start some big marketing projects to attract other carriers and/or alliances to develope their hub here (fyi - Singapore Air just re-started their daily flights from AMS, in addition to KLM's flights to SGP... wake up BRU !). If on the other hand SNBA wants to become a big player, someday joining the OneWorld alliance, then they definitely have to work hard to develop their long hauls...
I'm sure there is a marketshare for them, considering that a lot of Belgian based multinationals currently have corporate agreements with BA or KLM, simply because their travelers can't fly to NY or SanFran with our local home carrier... And apologies for not quoting their codeshare with AA on the JFK route, but their service levels are way down SNBA's. Some people just don't like it being served by chewing crew members, nor having to pay $5 for a glass of wine when you bought a full fare economy ticket of $ 1200 :wink:

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sn26567
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Re: expantion of SNBA

Post by sn26567 » 09 Jul 2004, 08:48

chunk wrote:The problem is that SN are not known (outside continental Europe and Africa). If SN started flights to say Aberdeen for example ( no chance!!!) the first question people would ask is who are they?
That is why SN BrusselsAirlines made a big error in chosing that name. If they had been called something like "newSabena" for example, they could have cashed immediately on the wide recognition of the Sabena name.

In Africa, the SN planes and routes are still called Sabena. And last Monday in Warsaw I heard the call for the "Sabena" flight to Brussels...
Avro wrote:
chunk wrote:I don't know the reasons (other than Swissair) for Sabena's demise but they were a world known brand name too
The major reason isn't Swissair but the Belgian government.

I would call it a tie: both are equally to blame.

I further agree with Ericairlines that Belgium should make a big effort to put Brussels again on the map of long haul carriers. Maybe when BIAC becomes totally private the Government will not be able to meddle anymore and we shall finally see some entrepreneurship....
André
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lumumba
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Post by lumumba » 09 Jul 2004, 12:57

Hi everybody.
I think that SN has to devlope there African network.
They need to have a bigger long haul fleet .
The kinshasa market is big enoug for non-stop flight's for example.
Same for Luanda,and i'm sure it's the same for Nairobi.
Regards
Pat

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Avro
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Re: expantion of SNBA

Post by Avro » 09 Jul 2004, 21:34

sn26567 wrote:
I would call it a tie: both are equally to blame.
Yeah, I exaggerated a bit ;)

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Post by EB-Air » 09 Jul 2004, 23:07

sorry if I missed something during the past weeks, but what's the story with the possible merger of SN and VEX? When Branson would become a shareholder of SN, would a cooperation with BA still be an option/possibility?

Again, I do apologise if I missed something...

Regards,
Ben

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Post by TWA » 10 Jul 2004, 04:48

Hi ben. You didn't miss anything about this deal. And you probably know as much as everybody else who is working in either companies or in aviation around BRU airport: which is NOTHING really.

I think we will first have to see what the outcome of this merger will be, I suppose both holdings will have to announce something in the near future as the new winter season is approaching very fast.

But I guess they are too busy with the Summer operations right now.


TWA

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tolipanebas
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Post by tolipanebas » 10 Jul 2004, 12:25

I have a small question.

Seems SN is again sending planes to AMS to get repainted in the new colours. OO-DJQ is now overthere getting rid of that ugly looking blue belly finally and OO-MJE is already back as the first BAe146 which got repainted.

Does any of you know when we will see the first A330-300 in the new colours? I know one of them has been on a C-check to Singapore a few months ago, but it came back in the old temporary colours.

I am curious to find out.

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 » 10 Jul 2004, 13:09

Only the models of the A330 are available in the new colours.

The real planes having undergone the D-check without getting new colours are not likely to get them in the near future.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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lumumba
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Post by lumumba » 11 Jul 2004, 20:39

Hi everybody.
I'm very happy about tjis redecoration project of there long haul fleet.
I'ts really necesery it's old looking and bad condition.
The competition is a lot better.(Air france on Kinshasa for eX)
Regards
Pat

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Sabena_690
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Post by Sabena_690 » 12 Jul 2004, 10:46

Lumumba: keep tuned, great news about this will be announced...

Frederic
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blackhawk
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Post by blackhawk » 12 Jul 2004, 12:37

Come on Sabena, give us the scoop :D

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Sabena_690
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Post by Sabena_690 » 12 Jul 2004, 15:38

No much scoop about since it is already circulating for months and months BH...

It hasn't been made official yet, which means that the final decisions haven't been taken yet.

First press release...

Frederic
Brussels Airlines - Flying Your Way

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speedbird1
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Post by speedbird1 » 13 Jul 2004, 00:52

Thought I'd just say thanks everybody for all your postings on this topic.

Emirates

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Post by JDarby » 15 Jul 2004, 02:19

During the 1980's, I used to fly SABENA from YUL to BRU, The flight used to be a FULL 747 and BRU seemed to be a very busy airport. Further more, BRU was my favorite transit stop on my way to the Middle East (very competitive prices). Lately, I go to BRU, as well as to the Middle East transiting through AMS, CDG, or LHR. Although I like the new and beautiful Terminal, BRU currently looks like a provincial airport (not too much long haul activity).

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 » 15 Jul 2004, 09:24

JDarby,

We know :( Unfortunately :( The demise of Sabena meant the end of BRU as a burstling airport. Nevertheless, congratulations to BIAC for having kept the plans to open Terminal A after the Sabena bankruptcy and trying to put BRU again on the map of world airmines.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Lars
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Post by Lars » 19 Jul 2004, 19:59

It's a pitty SNBA won't buy some new and bigger planes.... :cry:

Personally I know some people who refuse to fly with SNBA because they don't like the small claustrophobic Avro's!

It seems like SNBA will be the "airline with the flying minibusses" for a long time to come..... :(

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