Do SN have any plans for expanding their long haul fleet?

Post by **speedbird1** » 03 Jul 2004, 21:43

I was wondering if SN are planning any form of expansion to their long haul aircraft fleet? I think it would make SN good again and establish them as a bigger player in the airline industry.
Any thoughts?

Emirates

Jense · Post by **Jense** » 03 Jul 2004, 22:52

I don't think they will add more long-haul aircrafts to their fleet, since they have enough with 3 A333's for African destinations.
SN isn't planning any other long-haul opertions I think, so no extra long-haul aircrafts.
It would be very nice, but wich new long-haul route would be profitable out of BRU? No one...

greettzzz

Post by **speedbird1** » 03 Jul 2004, 23:08

Well the Brussels-Jo-Burg route was a good one, I'm sure if they got some bigger aircraft it would obviously open new marktes to them eg to the Far Eastern stuff.

Emirates

Post by **luchtzak** » 03 Jul 2004, 23:18

Emirates wrote:Well the Brussels-Jo-Burg route was a good one

I am sorry but both Sabena and Sobelair lost money on Brussels-Johannesburg.

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 04 Jul 2004, 03:45

Emirates wrote:I think it would make SN good again and establish them as a bigger player in the airline industry.

I think SN finaly IS good (& profitable) and established , and should continue to try to be all it can be as a flag carrier of a country of just 10 milion.
They allways told me to not live above my "stand", so SN shouldn't either.
The reason why BRU doesn't have any Asian connections is because BRU can't support them probably (at the moment).
You can't just buy a plane, fly a route & be profitable, it's not that simple.

The only addition for their longhaul fleet that maybe has any chance could be an a319LR doing like LH & LX... Strangely I have never heard of this option before...

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 05 Jul 2004, 10:37

SNBA will not expand their longhaul fleet.

Frederic

carambole · Post by **carambole** » 07 Jul 2004, 11:35

I think that SNBA is not gonna expand in a short term, however, on the long run, things could be different.

Here are the facts:
*SNBA is still a very young company
*SNBA hasn't prooved to be profitable yet
*Belgium has got indeed only 10 million inhabitants ( Holland has got 15 which is not much more)
*Brussels is an under-used airport
*SNBA shareholders come from very different fields; some of them have nothing to do with the airline industry but invested capital into SNBA after Sabena's collapse.
*SNBA's boss is British ( Mr Peter Davis ) and SNBA's commercial director comes from BA.
*LHR is an airport where it gets too hard to have slots as all slots are used by many airlines.
*SNBA has agreements and code-share with many airlines but certainly with plenty of One-world members. ( BA, Iberia, Finnair,)
*Air France has bought KLM becoming the biggest player in Europe.
*Belgium has got plenty of landing rights around the world which are not used.
Here's my analysis.

What could happen in the future is that after a couple of years of profits and social rest. SNBA could become a very attractive lady with an airport that is underused. London being stuck in it's development ; British Airways could take the opportunity to buy SNBA and use this one as an expansion.
Brussels has got 10 million inhabitants yes, but nowadays it's not the way economy is thought anymore. Think about the inter-land and across the borders. We are in the very center of the most populated area in western Europe. By the way there are plans the expand Brussels Airport railway station into an international station where not only Thalys ( which is already the case ) but Eurostar could bring passengers out of Paris, London and Amsterdam and bring them to Brussels.

All the landing rights the Belgium governement has got, could be used by for an expansion of British airways in Brussels itself, taking the big market that is the Benelux countries, northern France, the Rhur-valley, and so on...

So you see, if you go into depth and make a more refined analysis, maybe there could be lots of change in Brussels on the long term.

I hope you all agree with me
carambole

Post by **sn26567** » 07 Jul 2004, 12:05

For your first intervention in this forum, you made a very nice analysis, carambole.

Welcome to Luchtzak, and we hope to read more from you.

Post by **speedbird1** » 07 Jul 2004, 16:19

Indeed a very good post. Welcome to Luchtzak enjoy...!

Emirates

tolipanebas · Post by **tolipanebas** » 07 Jul 2004, 17:55

For the moment, SN is not thinking of expanding their Long Haul fleet.

In fact, it looks as if the A330-300 will stay for a long time to come. The Airline has just launched a project to fully redecorate the interior of their wide body planes and even give them names!!!!!

A few months back, there was a persisitent rumour one of the A330-300 (the one suffering several engine failures last year) would be replaced by a newer plane of the same type... Anybody has some news on this?

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 07 Jul 2004, 18:02

Nice analysis indeed, but there is one thing you forget about high-speed trains: they work both ways, bringing passengers to LHR, CDG & AMS...
More would go away than come to BRU I would suppose.
One other thing: BRU would allways be a backup airport for BA: if there was any chance of getting the flights in London, they would be gone in a second... We wouldn't want that for SNBA...

Post by **speedbird1** » 07 Jul 2004, 18:55

Very good points Buzz!

Emirates

ATC · Post by **ATC** » 07 Jul 2004, 20:04

By the way there are plans the expand Brussels Airport railway station into an international station where not only Thalys ( which is already the case ) but Eurostar could bring passengers out of Paris, London and Amsterdam and bring them to Brussels.

Does anybody has more information about this...?
website ?
dates ?

greetings,
ATC

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 07 Jul 2004, 20:37

That's a very interesting discussion guys.

In my opinion, the only way for SN to grow in the far future is to become a member of an alliance. The only option they would have is Oneworld, since CDG/AMS is Skyteam and FRA Star Allaince.

carambole wrote:*SNBA hasn't prooved to be profitable yet

That's totally true. They made an operational loss last year, but I'm quite confident they'll make a profit this year

BTW welcome to Luchtzak carambole.

Chris
8)

L-1011 · Post by **L-1011** » 07 Jul 2004, 21:38

Interesting point carambole (Welcome to Luchtzak). i must agree with you

I'd say that SNBA won't change anything for the time being on their Long-haul fleet. Maybe in the future...

And once LHR will be completely saturated, perhaps that a partnership (or more) with BA would enable to put the eastern bound long haul of BA in BRU

Ciao
TriStar

ERICAIRLINES · Post by **ERICAIRLINES** » 07 Jul 2004, 22:42

Bru and SN will become medium player in the year 2010,SN being at that time a 'One World' member and an active BA affiliate,Bru will be second London hub for BA (continental terminal),also AA will use Bru as hub for USA Europe flights,using Sn flights for connections...Cathay will relocate his continental europe hub at BRU,and will serve routes like Beijing,Shangai,Canton and of course HK...China becoming first major business destination in Asia...all other european airports(cdg,ams,fra,lhr)being overcrowded with very little slots remaining....but attention this analysis can become impossible if BIAC is bought by either Fraport or Schipol....FRA would be less negative option for BRU,ams will always protect Schipol against other players...And don't forget that in 2010 no more Virgin express(absorbed in 05 by sn),and some low costs will also be out of fashion..due to the fact that they will become less...low costs and more ...medium cost let's say,reducing the gap between full services airlines and their counterparts....future is not so bad on a long term for Bru and for SN...

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 08 Jul 2004, 00:29

A whole different idea of the future:
(some wild thoughts, not my idea of the future but it could all be true!)
in 2012,
-passengers pay €75 per flight eco-tax
-nightflights, early-morning and late-night flights are forbidden at BRU
-LHR gets it's 3rd runway, and BA gets some breathing room
-BSCA gets a new terminal, a runway extension & a direct rail link to brussels

BRU wouldn't come out good...

Post by **speedbird1** » 08 Jul 2004, 08:37

Ericairlines, Do you really think that could happen? It seems slightly wishful thinking. I feel than Brussels would have to change alot to compete with places like Frankfurt etc with KLM and Air France being "best friends" small airlines airlines like SN will be small fry to them in taking them over or finishing them off.
Let's see!

Emirates

Post by **sn26567** » 08 Jul 2004, 09:28

tolipanebas wrote:For the moment, SN is not thinking of expanding their Long Haul fleet.

In fact, it looks as if the A330-300 will stay for a long time to come. The Airline has just launched a project to fully redecorate the interior of their wide body planes and even give them names!!!!!

A few months back, there was a persisitent rumour one of the A330-300 (the one suffering several engine failures last year) would be replaced by a newer plane of the same type... Anybody has some news on this?

Why for God's sake would SN need to expand long haul fleet?
- Three planes are enough to serve the Africa network
- Traffic does not justify any plane to Asia or South America
- North Amefrica is well served by the codeshare agreement with AA

A backup plane would be useful (but costly..) if one of the A330s goes technical.

I have also understood that the C-class of the A330s would be similar to that of mainstream airlines, with almost flat beds, etc.

To reply your question, tolipanebas, here is another question: why replace an entire plane when only the engines are bad?

V-Bird · Post by **V-Bird** » 08 Jul 2004, 13:37

carambole wrote:Holland has got 15 which is not much more

( Holland has got 17 million inhabitants )

[ admin webmaster: no need to quote an entire message ]

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Do SN have any plans for expanding their long haul fleet?

Do SN have any plans for expanding their long haul fleet?

Re: Do SN have any plans for expanding their long haul fleet

expantion of SNBA

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