Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL downed near Donetsk, Ukraine

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by mooney058 » 31 Jul 2015, 10:03

Isn't it strange – civil aircraft is downed in a war zone and a country that says it does not participate in the conflict is objecting to an international investigation of this crime, when:
• The crime was not against this country's citizens;
• Was not in the territory of this country;
• And according to this country's own investigators, Ukrainian military is to blame.

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 31 Jul 2015, 10:29

Let's not enter into political considerations here. Although I agree with you that Russia 's attitude is strange, we shall now have to wait for the report of the Dutch investigation. I hope that all parties will then agree to draw the right conclusions and punish the culprits.
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Passenger » 10 Aug 2015, 13:22

Update on the investigation by the Dutch Safety Board - 10th August 2015:

International aviation investigators MH17 meet

This morning the team of international aviation investigators who investigate the cause of the crash of flight MH17, started a meeting that will last for a number of days. During this meeting, lead by the Dutch Safety Board, the team will discuss the progress of the investigation and will visit air force base Gilze-Rijen to view the reconstruction of a part of the aircraft.

Last year, several meetings were held to discuss the progress of the investigation and to carry out further research. These meetings are part of the procedure for international aviation investigations laid down in the ICAO Convention.

The team of investigators, headed by the Dutch Safety Board, represent the countries which are involved in the MH17 investigation: the Netherlands, Ukraine, Malaysia, Australia, the United States, the United Kingdom and the Russian Federation.

Source:
http://onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2 ... meet#fasen

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 11 Aug 2015, 17:28

Ukraine crash site 'yields Russian missile parts'

Fragments of a suspected Russian missile system have been found at the Flight MH17 crash site in Ukraine, investigators in the Netherlands say. They say the parts, possibly from a Buk surface-to-air system, are "of particular interest" and could help show who was behind the crash. But they say they have not proved their "causal connection" with the crash.

The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) said in a joint statement with the Dutch Safety Board that the parts had been "secured during a previous recovery mission in eastern Ukraine". "The parts are of particular interest to the criminal investigation as they can possibly provide more information about who was involved in the crash of MH17. For that reason the JIT further investigates the origin of these parts," the statement said. "At present the conclusion cannot be drawn that there is a causal connection between the discovered parts and the crash of flight MH17."

The investigators would now enlist the help of weapons experts and forensic specialists to examine the parts.

The JIT comprises representatives of the Netherlands, Ukraine, Belgium, Malaysia and Australia. They are meeting in The Hague to discuss a draft report on the causes of the crash, the final version of which is expected to be published by the Dutch Safety Board in October.

Full article from BBC with graphs showing how a Buk missile could have downed the Boeing 777: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33865420
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 14 Aug 2015, 16:15

U.S. Intelligence confirms that MH17 was downed by an SA-11 missile

Only days after Dutch officials recovered what they believe to be parts of the missile that downed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine last year, the U.S. intelligence community has settled on the assessment that the offending system was a Russian-made SA-11, also dubbed the Gadfly by NATO.

During an Aug. 12 speech at the 2015 Space and Missile Defense Conference in Huntsville, Alabama, a senior intelligence official briefly addressed the matter. National Geospatial Intelligence Agency Deputy Director Sue Gordon outlined for the audience how the agency’s mission relies on well-honed experience tying linking imagery with other forms of intelligence. And as the agency’s name notes, its power is in linking events from various sources to specific times and locations on the globe. “It’s expertise like that that’s essential when NGA needs to assess things like the responsibility for the SA-11 that shot down Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 over Ukraine,” she said.

Gordon declined in the interview to explain what led the community to its confidence in the assessment.

More details: http://aviationweek.com/defense/mh17-do ... l-confirms
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Passenger » 27 Aug 2015, 12:44

Update Onderzoeksraad / Dutch Safety Board - 27th August 2015:

"...Today the Dutch Safety Board informed relatives and the accredited representatives to the investigation that the Board will publish the final report on the investigation into flight MH17 on 13 October 2015. Prior to the official publication of the report, the relatives will be informed about the conclusions of the investigation during a closed information meeting. In September, the relatives will receive an invitation to the information session containing details of the location, the time and how they can register. At a later date, the Dutch Safety Board will release further information about the location and the way in which the reports will be made available to the public and media on 13 October 2015..."

http://www.onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzo ... port#fasen

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Flanker2 » 27 Aug 2015, 18:39

That must be the fastest ever final report.
There's probably not much to say though. Missile hit aircraft, aircraft disintegrated.
The mutual blame game will continue forever though...

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 15 Sep 2015, 15:34

Russia sent a response to the report on the crash of Boeing 777 aircraft in Donbass to Netherlands

(Note: Have you seen that the Russians write Donbass instead of Ukraine?)

Russian party sent its comments on report on the crash of Boeing 777 passenger aircraft (flight MH17) in Donbass prepared by Dutch investigators. It was sent in July, but the fact was unveiled only now, RBC reports.

A source familiar with the situation reported that the Russian party sent its comments on report on the crash of Boeing 777 passenger aircraft (flight MH17) in Donbass prepared by Dutch investigators.

«All the items that should be included in the report were submitted to the security council of Netherlands in July,» the source said.

On July 1st 2015 the security council of Netherlands stated that it has completed investigation of the crash. Preliminary report was sent to ICAO and all the countries taking part in the investigation. DSB noted that the countries involved in the investigation have 60 days to comment on the document.

Deputy Head of Rosaviatsiya (Federal Air Transport Agency) Oleg Storchevoi said that after studying the document the agency’s specialists have more questions than answers.

Source: Russian Aviation
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Passenger » 29 Sep 2015, 17:16

Another Dutch search & rescue team left for Ukrain on 25th September 2015. Since the last repat flight (May 2015), the inhabitants from Hrabove (= the crash site) have collected additional human remains, plus personal belongings and aircraft debris. It will be handed over to the Dutch team in Kharkov, and then repatriated to AMS on a scheduled flight (thus no military aircraft to Eindhoven). Relatives of the two passengers who have not been identified yet will be invited to attend the arrival of that flight at Amsterdam Schiphol.

https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpe ... r-schiphol

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by stratofreighter » 09 Oct 2015, 15:52

Anyone hazard a guess as to which Boeing airframe could have been part of this "BUK-groundtest" as mentioned at http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=118538 :?:
http://www.airnieuws.nl updates per 12 Nov 2018: FOKKER aircraft (photo)updates . ;)

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Passenger » 09 Oct 2015, 16:09

stratofreighter wrote:Anyone hazard a guess as to which Boeing airframe could have been part of this "BUK-groundtest" as mentioned at http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=118538
The Dutch Safety Board (= Onderzoeksraad voor de Veiligheid) will publish its final report next Tuesday. The Dutch press reports that there won't be many details about "a Buk missile" in Tuesday's report, because if it was the cause indeed, it will be part of the criminal investigation, led by the Dutch Public Prosecutor.

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuws/c ... ophelderen

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Passenger » 12 Oct 2015, 14:39

Press Release Dutch Safety Board - 12th October 2015:

On Tuesday 13 October 2015 the Dutch Safety Board will publish its reports on the investigation into the crash of flight MH17. Below, we provide an overview of the course of events.

At 11.00 a.m. surviving relatives of the victims will first be informed about the results of the investigation
by Tjibbe Joustra, chairman of the Dutch Safety Board, in The Hague.

At exactly 1.15 p.m. the chairman of the Dutch Safety Board will present the investigation to the media
at Gilze-Rijen air base. After this presentation, the reports will be published (around 1.45 p.m.).

At 4.00 p.m. the chairman of the Dutch Safety Board will be elucidating the investigation during a closed meeting with the Dutch House of Representatives in The Hague.

After the official publication of the report on Tuesday afternoon, Board members Erwin Muller and Marjolein van Asselt will be informing approximately 75 embassies about the investigation in The Hague.

The reports focus on four themes: the causes of the crash, the issue of flying over conflict areas, the reasons why Dutch surviving relatives had to wait for two to four days for confirmation from the Dutch authorities that their loved ones had been on the aeroplane, and lastly the question to what extent the occupants of flight MH17 consciously experienced the crash.

The investigation was not concerned with question of blame or liability. Answering those question is a matter for the criminal investigation.

During the presentation of the investigation at Gilze-Rijen air base the reconstruction will be shown that
the Dutch Safety Board made of part of the aircraft. Using recovered pieces of wreckage, part of the cockpit and business class section were reconstructed. The Dutch Safety Board reconstructed the part of the aeroplane that was relevant to the investigation.

On Tuesday the Dutch Safety Board will also be presenting a video animation explaining the findings and conclusions of the investigation.

English is the language used in international aviation investigation. The reports on flight MH17 will be published in English as well as in Dutch.

It is common practice for the Dutch Safety Board to include a rationale for its investigations in its reports. For the publication of the MH17 reports the Board has opted not to do so for each report individually, but instead to provide a single document covering all of the various investigations. This document, entitled About the Investigation, will be published simultaneously with the reports.On Tuesday 13 October 2015
the Dutch Safety Board will publish its reports on the investigation into the crash of flight MH17.

- -

Source - English:
http://onderzoeksraad.nl/en/onderzoek/2 ... view#fasen

Source - in Dutch:
http://onderzoeksraad.nl/nl/onderzoek/2 ... verwachten

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 12 Oct 2015, 15:25

Passenger wrote:On Tuesday 13 October 2015 the Dutch Safety Board will publish its reports on the investigation into the crash of flight MH17.
Are Dutch experts ignoring Russian findings?

Russia has appealed to the head of the UN aviation agency to intervene in the investigation into the MH17 crash in Ukraine to prevent the Dutch experts in charge from ignoring the findings of their Russian counterparts, according to a new media report.

The Deputy Chief of Russia’s Federal Air Transport Agency, Oleg Storchevoy, sent a letter to Olumuyiwa Benard Aliu, the head of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), after becoming acquainted with a draft of the final report by the Dutch Safety Board (DSB), which is heading the probe. This was revealed by Malaysian newspaper the New Straits Times on Sunday.

The letter, received by the ICAO on September 16, states that the DSB ignored “comprehensive information” provided by the Russian side and relating to the downing of the Boeing 777 over war-torn Eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, the media report said. In the letter, Storchevoy said that, in conducting its investigation, the DSB had violated the principle of “sequence of conclusions,” one of the most fundamental rules when conducting probes into air crashes.

He went on to explain that, instead of conducting its investigation in a logical order, by first examining the damage to the airplane and then, based on this analysis, drawing conclusions as to its cause and source, the DSB had begun with an assumed hypothesis, and worked backward to demonstrate that the evidence met the criteria necessary to prove their preconceived conclusion.

Sources: Russia Today and eTN news
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by stratofreighter » 13 Oct 2015, 14:04

And this is the Ilyushin IL-86 the Russians used for their own missile-impact simulation:
https://yadi.sk/i/40FlBCKejh8jc

Yes, they did hang a BUK-missile very near the cockpit by using a crane!
http://www.airnieuws.nl updates per 12 Nov 2018: FOKKER aircraft (photo)updates . ;)

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 13 Oct 2015, 14:15

In their press conference this morning, the Dutch Safety Board avoided naming culprits, but clearly indicated that MH17 was shot down by a Buk missile fired from a zone of Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian rebels. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs immediately rejected these conclusions.
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Passenger » 13 Oct 2015, 14:27

sn26567 wrote:In their press conference this morning, the Dutch Safety Board avoided naming culprits, but clearly indicated that MH17 was shot down by a Buk missile fired from a zone of Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian rebels. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs immediately rejected these conclusions.
Actually, The Dutch Safety Board already denied this. Information that was given to the relatives this early morning, was reported with errors in the press, The Onderzoeksraaad reported around noon. Example: The Onderzoeksraad did not say that the Buks missile was fired from "rebels controlled area": the launch zone is 320 km², the report states. This must include state controlled zones.

Furthermore, if one links the Buks type and serial number that The Onderzoeksraad confirms to the information that the manufacturer gave on 2nd June 2015, one can only conclude that it was not a "Russian" missile ("Russian = launched by the Russian army or pro Russian rebels).

The three most relevant facts from the investigation are that the cockpit crew were killed instantly, that all passengers were unconscious within a few seconds because of lack of oxygen, and that the Ukrain airspace should have been closed for commercial traffic when the crash happened.

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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 13 Oct 2015, 15:28

KLM Reaction final report MH17

KLM is pleased to see the Dutch Safety Board’s final report regarding the MH17 tragedy, as it provides clarity to surviving family members and friends. KLM takes its conclusions and recommendations for airlines with utmost seriousness. KLM now plans to study the report and the recommendations more closely.

Amstelveen,13 October 2015
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 20 Oct 2015, 15:42

After the publication of the Dutch Investigation report, here is the Russian reaction from Almaz-Antey, the manufacturer of the Buk missiles:

Almaz-Antey: Boeing 777 was shot down with 9M38 missile, launched from Zaroschenskoye settlement

On October 13th 2015 representatives of Almaz-Antey Concern held a press-conference and presented results of their experiments carried out in order to simulate the crash of Malaysian Boeing 777, which happened in July 2014 in Ukraine.

The experiments carried out by Almaz-Antey proved that the Malaysian Boeing 777 was shot down by 9M38 missile, which was launched from Zaroschenskoye settlement instead of Snezhnoye settlement as declared before. It was stated by Almaz-Antey CEO Yan Novikov.

He stated that the press-conference was a starting date for the concern, because the international commission announced the final results of its investigation the same day. “On June 2nd we held the first press-conference and started preparation for two experiments, because we understood that investigators will not consider our results,” Novikov said.

He noted that outdated Russian-produced Il-86 aircraft was used for carrying out the experiments, because it has dimensions and design similar to Boeing 777. There are no B777 jets, which were put out of service, and it is too expensive to purchase a new jet for the experiments. Representatives of the concern noted that the total costs connected with the experiments amounted to 10 million rubles.

In his own turn, Advisor to Almaz Antey General Designer, Mikhail Malishevskiy, analyzed the shortcomings of simulation carried out by Dutch specialists. “The major proof of the fact that the jet was shot down from Snezhnoye was the simulation of this process and explanation of the nature of damage sustained by the aircraft. It may really demonstrate that a certain part of the aircraft sustains damage in case of approach of a missile on a collision course; however, this simulation doesn’t really show real approach angles,” Malishevskiy said. He also noted that Dutch investigators of Boeing 777 crash in Ukraine presented two types of destructive fragments, found in the body of the aircraft, while Almaz-Antey experiments confirmed that the jet’s body was damaged by three groups of the missile’s destructive fragments.

Today we are confident: if the Boeing 777 was shot down by Buk air defense system, it was hit by 9M38 missile launched from Zaroschenskoye settlement. Simulation of the crash of the Malaysian Boeing 777 showed that if the missile was launched from Snezhnoye settlement (as stated by the Dutch experts), the jet’s left side, damaged during the crash, wouldn’t have been damaged by the missile’s destructive fragments,» Mikhail Malishevskiy.

Moreover, according to the concern’s representatives, production of 9M38 missiles was ceased in 1986 and in 2011 missiles of the type were put out of service in Russia. According to Yan Novikov, Boeing 777 could not be hit by state-of-the-art 9M38M1 missile, because this type of missiles leaves damage in the form of butterfly on an aircraft’s body, because out of 7000 destructive fragments, every fourth one has a double-T profile with the maximum momentum. Such “butterflies” were not found on the body of the Malaysian aircraft.

Source: Russian Aviation
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by sn26567 » 25 Nov 2015, 00:01

Experts pore over evidence of downed Malaysian Airlines plane

A team that includes Dutch and Ukrainian investigators have begun examining evidence from the MH17 Malaysia Airlines flight that was downed in eastern Ukraine in July 2014, killing all on board, Dutch prosecutors said on Tuesday (24 Nov).

The Dutch Safety Board concluded in a final report last month that the plane was shot down by a Russian-made Buk missile. Russia disputes a Buk may have been used.

The approximately 20 experts in metals, paints, weapons, ballistics and explosives will examine crash site wreckage with the aim of "tracing and prosecuting the perpetrators," the prosecutors said in a statement.

The meeting should "lead to a significant step forward in the criminal investigation and towards legal and convincing evidence in particular," it said.

The team of specialists from the Netherlands, Australia, Malaysia, Belgium and Ukraine gathered on Monday and will work for the next three weeks. The wreckage was transported from the crash site to a hangar at the Dutch Gilze-Rijen airforce base where it now lies, assembled on a steel wire lattice.

Among the material being examined are soil samples from possible missile launch sites and debris that could belong to a BUK-missile.

Full article from Reuters: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/11/2 ... ZP20151124
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Re: Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL crashed near Donetsk, Ukraine

Post by Passenger » 03 Dec 2015, 11:39

Not directly related to the crash, but anyway: Malaysia Airlines ends the route Amsterdam-Kuala Lumpur (MH-19, previously MH-17) as from 26th January 2016. The routing will then be offered as code sharing route on Emirates, via Dubai. Malaysia Airlines will focus on domestic and regional routes; only London will be kept on-line.

http://www.travmagazine.nl/13120/

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