Malaysia B772 flight MH17 AMS-KUL downed near Donetsk, Ukraine

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flightlover
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by flightlover » 18 Jul 2014, 07:16

My heart goes out to all friends and family that have lost a beloved one in this terrible assault.
As ever, it are bystanders that pay the price off futile differences.

My thoughts on this:
Conspiracy theorist are everywhere. I like to keep options open.

If this so called Buk missile was used to bring down MH17 both Ukraine and Russia are the main suspects in that area.
However, seeing there is a civilian war ongoing in that area there is a third party that could have done this: the Russian separatist.

Regi is saying the separatist have no access to this kind off weapon system. To me that sounds hard to believe.
I do not get why it should be that hard to gain access to it. Why?

- I do not think it will have a central command system that can de-activate the whole system as this would be a massive disadvantage when this command centre would be captured.

- They are not capable of firing these kind of weapons, but are they? Lets not forget that a lot of Ukrainian soldiers have switched sides and are now fighting their former chiefs.

- The owners off this system will not shut it down completely when loosing a few missiles as this would give them a massive disadvantage by having a lot off dead-weight missiles.

So I'm not saying that the Russian separatist in Ukraine have done this. But I would not be too hasty in saying they didn't do it. We might even want to pray they did, as this could help end the conflict in that area sooner.

Also I wouldn't exclude the Ukrainians or Russians have done this (by mistake).

One thing is certain: It would make a good reason for Russians and Americans alike to enter the conflict.
And who knows where that will end...

My biggest fear is that truth will only come to light when it is convenient.

Acid-drop
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by Acid-drop » 18 Jul 2014, 11:10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnuHxAR01Jo

seems very realistic to me
scary ...

They say it themselves "why the fuck are they flying over here, there is a war going on"
Very good question indeed.
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

MrG4
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by MrG4 » 18 Jul 2014, 11:38

-First flight date: 17/07/1997 (On Airfleets.net-9M-MRD)
-Last flight date: 17/07/2014
Age: EXACTLY 17 years old
Flight: MH 17!
I don't believe in bad luck, but........it is something scary!!! :o

Lysexpat
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by Lysexpat » 18 Jul 2014, 11:40

Acid-drop wrote:They say it themselves "why the fuck are they flying over here, there is a war going on"
Very good question indeed.
Because the bean counters did assess the risk... and concluded it was worth to take.
Probably the same kind of people who are saying it is safe to fly to/from TLV.


MrG4
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by MrG4 » 18 Jul 2014, 11:52

EUROCONTROL bullettin
Qua il comunicato dell' Eurocontrol
MH 17 - Ukraine
17 Jul 2014
MH 17 - Ukraine – 17 July 2014

EUROCONTROL has been informed that MH 17 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur has crashed in the eastern part of Ukraine.



Our thoughts are with the families and friends of those on board.

According to our information, the aircraft was flying at Flight Level 330 (approximately 10,000 metres/33,000 feet) when it disappeared from the radar. This route had been closed by the Ukrainian authorities from ground to flight level 320 but was open at the level at which the aircraft was flying.

Since the crash, the Ukrainian authorities have informed EUROCONTROL of the closure of routes from the ground to unlimited in Eastern Ukraine (Dnipropetrovsk Flight Information Region). All flight plans that are filed using these routes are now being rejected by EUROCONTROL. The routes will remain closed until further notice.

The European Aviation Crisis Coordination Cell is being activated to coordinate the response to the impact of the airspace closure.
http://www.eurocontrol.int/news/mh-17-ukraine

Desert Rat
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by Desert Rat » 18 Jul 2014, 14:52

One of my ex-colleague flying to Odessa last April overflying Black Sea in the Crimea region, heard from the ATC" You are overflying USSR airspace, for your own safety you must to follow my instructions"....same time on VHF2 another controller saying" You have to follow my instructions any other instructions from other control is unlawful"

That area should have been prohibited a long time ago!

globetrotter
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by globetrotter » 18 Jul 2014, 15:16

One Dutch passenger took the last pic of the aircraft while boarding which he posted on his facebook page, joking with a funny comment can you imagine his state when the plane got hit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the- ... ooks-like/

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sn26567
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by sn26567 » 18 Jul 2014, 15:23

According to Malysian Airlines, MH17’s flight plan was approved by Eurocontrol, who are responsible for determining flight paths. The 10 previous MH17 flights did not fly over Ukraine... And then: MH17 flight planned for FL350 transit of Ukraine but was instructed to remain at FL330 by Ukrainian air traffic control. Not that it would have changed a lot, but...

Eurocontrol now has closed eastern Ukraine airspace - All flights are diverted from the area following Malaysia Airlines MH17 crash.

And a last picture of 9M-MRD taking off from AMS before its fatal encounter over Eastern Uktaine:
Image
PHOTO: Fred Neeleman
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globetrotter
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by globetrotter » 18 Jul 2014, 15:33

New update 189 Dutch passengers, some are speculating there were also 80 children onboard perhaps belonging to various nationalities.

Acid-drop
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by Acid-drop » 18 Jul 2014, 15:43

How the hell can we hesitate on nationalities and age ?
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

regi
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by regi » 18 Jul 2014, 15:48

Acid-drop wrote:How the hell can we hesitate on nationalities and age ?
people with double nationality, 3 babies travelling on mommies' lap.

globetrotter
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by globetrotter » 18 Jul 2014, 16:20

Dual nationals one each from South Africa, Romania and Hong Kong have been identified, not sure which citizenship they were travelling under.

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sn26567
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by sn26567 » 18 Jul 2014, 18:08

The U.S. now believes that pro-Russian separatists were responsible for firing the missile that downed a Malaysia Airlines. Officials in Washington also confirmed that the missile was fired from a Russian-made SA-11, or Buk, system.

Americans want to know who was at the launch site when the missile was launched. Officials are keen to try and learn if Russian forces were present. The U.S. official said the missile was fired from “the border region” but declined to give a more precise location.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2014/07/1 ... ttop_email
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BATAVIA
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by BATAVIA » 18 Jul 2014, 22:01

How much bad luck you Can have?
MH Is a Great Airline, and 2014 hopefully Will not bring her down.
MH 370 Being shot down by the Americans otw to Diego Garcia, and completly covered up, as a suïcide mission...
MH 017 shot down by Rusians rebels in Eastern Ukraine....
RIP for All passengers involved,
On both incidents, We Will never know Who was fully responsible...
Mh 370.... MH 017... All rip,

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sn26567
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by sn26567 » 18 Jul 2014, 22:03

BATAVIA wrote:MH 370 Being shot down by the Americans otw to Diego Garcia, and completly covered up, as a suïcide mission...
This is pure speculation! Is there any proof?
André
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cathay belgium
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by cathay belgium » 18 Jul 2014, 22:17

Hi,

BATAVIA I guess their were beamed up by ALIEN intruders which were instructed by Elvis Presley,
guess you have as much evidence as me :)
MH 17 you can keep fully responsible the people who give the SAM's to the rebellions...,
the rebellion who pushed the button and even MH itself in a way as many airliners already instructed their pilots to abandon this aerospace, but guess MH didn't as of their bad economic situation...
Guess FR had done the same ;) ( now thats a teaser... :) ) but a true possible fact of many other airliners in their need to keep an economic positive balance in the end, to stay alive or to fulfill the bancaccounts of their shareholders...
I will await 'the western' response to this murder/slaughter.. hope the ones who are responsible will have the same pain in the end.. but I don't think so... he will get away with it.. again...

CXB
New types flown : A223,AN24,AW139,B737MAX8,B763nonER,DH Dragonrapide,EMB110 Bandeirante, Shorts360,Autogire MTOsport2010

Lysexpat
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by Lysexpat » 19 Jul 2014, 00:29

sn26567 wrote:According to Malysian Airlines, MH17’s flight plan was approved by Eurocontrol, who are responsible for determining flight paths. The 10 previous MH17 flights did not fly over Ukraine... And then: MH17 flight planned for FL350 transit of Ukraine but was instructed to remain at FL330 by Ukrainian air traffic control. Not that it would have changed a lot, but...
The ONLY one who is responsible for flying overhead Ukraine is the airline it self.
Eurocontrol didn't reject the route, but certainely didn't impose it.

crlhub

Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by crlhub » 19 Jul 2014, 00:29

TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES

1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?

3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?

4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?

5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?

6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?

7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?

8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?

9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?

10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.


http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.be/2014/0 ... 17-is.html

Lysexpat
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Re: Malaysia B772 AMS-KUL flight crashed near Donetsk, Ukrai

Post by Lysexpat » 19 Jul 2014, 00:40

cathay belgium wrote:Guess FR had done the same ;) ( now thats a teaser... :) ) but a true possible fact of many other airliners in their need to keep an economic positive balance in the end, to stay alive or to fulfill the bancaccounts of their shareholders...
Way off topic!
But as you asked for it: not FR but BAir is flying to TLV which could be as dangerous as Ukraine. The fact that it is probably one of their only profitable routes is certainely a contributing factor.

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