RYR to be kicked out of BRU ?

[convair]

Nice to see the abundance of legal experts on this forum .
Btw, it is not at all unusual that a company goes to court even if they know they have little chance, if any, to win. They might feel compelled to do it simply because a shareholder, a bank or some third party, directly or indirectly involved, might blame them if they do not use all possible means, including the legal ones, to try and reach their goals.

[teddybAIR]

Can someone enlighten me on what this new European law really is? I still live under the impression that Europe does not issue laws, but that states are still souvereign and enforce European guidelines by translating them in national legislation. But then again, I'm just your average Joe, so I wouldn't be surprised if that concept is outdated

[RoMax]

Can someone enlighten me on what this new European law really is? I still live under the impression that Europe does not issue laws, but that states are still souvereign and enforce European guidelines by translating them in national legislation. But then again, I'm just your average Joe, so I wouldn't be surprised if that concept is outdated

The the Council of the European Union, the European Comission but actually the European Parliament have legislative power. While it started as an institution which could only give adivises to national governments, it can now enforce laws which have to be adopted by the member states.

[sean1982]

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP ... ?locale=en

There you go

[RTM]

I think it doesn't really matter wheather the suit has a chance or not. I don't think that is what it is about... It is merely another method to put pressure on politics to fix an unjust situation.

Ticket prices are dictated by the INTERNATIONAL market, so the issue should be resolved where one airline makes money on a fare, while another taes a loss on the same fare due to the home taxation. This is not a fault of the Irish airline, nor of any of the Belgian carriers, but the problem does exist, and this way, it puts pressure on the politicians who need to resolve this. FR should not take it personal, and they know that. But it is in MOL's favour to play the bitten dog, and use the publicity in his advantage. He is free to do so...

[sn26567]

Can someone enlighten me on what this new European law really is? I still live under the impression that Europe does not issue laws, but that states are still sovereign and enforce European guidelines by translating them in national legislation.

There are two types of European legislation: Regulations, which must be enforced without changes all EU member states, and Directives, which establish a minimum that should be translated in the legislation of all member states.

The legislation which was referred to here-above is a Regulation: it is valid in all members states and cannot be changed in any individual country.

[Flanker2]

Let's suppose that Ryanair and SN have the exact same tax rates at every level.
Will they be competing at the same level? I doubt it.
SN will still be selling 600 euro returns while FR will charge less than 100 one-way.

SN staff fly a lot with FR, simply because even though you have big disounts for travel with SN, those discounts are applied to their crazy fares. The result is that it's often sctill cheaper to fly with FR.

As we near the summer holidays, we can see that FR is no longer what it used to be.
Their fares are much higher than they used to be. I have my doubts about their current strategy of upgauging themselves to become a more Southwest type of airline. I would prefer a real low fares airline.
We don't see the 5 euro fares anymore, now it's mostly 50 euro's for any trip.
I think that FR is taking an unnecessary risk by moving CRL flights to BRU. I think that they should have kept both options open to satisfy both types of customers.

What they're doing now is running other airlines out of business so they can come in and charge the high fares. I don't think that the practice is illegal per se, it's how competition works.
The world is growing complicated, regulators are trying to maintain impossible balances, but let's face it, this happens in our everyday life, everywhere.

You have a great idea that results in a revolutionary invention that you take a patent on? Well, good luck turning that into cash. The big corporations will somehow kill your projects, even if they have to kill you as well. Even if it is a revolutonary thing, corporations want to keep milking whatever product they sell now rather than to have to do new R&D and launch a new product. Then, when your patent expires, they will be all over it...

[Passenger]

Let's suppose that Ryanair and SN have the exact same tax rates at every level. Will they be competing at the same level? I doubt it. SN will still be selling 600 euro returns while FR will charge less than 100 one-way.

Recent external comparisons (by travel magazines, newspapers, ticket scrapers, ota's, ...) have shown that legacy carriers sometimes are cheaper then the so called low costs, specially when travelling with luggage. Sometimes they're equal, sometimes they're more expensive, sometimes they're cheaper. Two major reasons: fuel prices are almost the same for all carriers, and yield management rules.

SN staff fly a lot with FR, simply because even though you have big disounts for travel with SN, those discounts are applied to their crazy fares. The result is that it's often sctill cheaper to fly with FR.

1. What is your source to say: "SN staff fly a lot with FR"?
2. What is that "big discount", in % ?

[Pocahontas]

Figures please Flanker2... I work at Bru Air, and I don't know many flying people taking FR...

[airbuske]

SN staff fly a lot with FR, simply because even though you have big disounts for travel with SN, those discounts are applied to their crazy fares. The result is that it's often sctill cheaper to fly with FR.

As SN Staff we have indeed staff tickets, but that is not a discount that is applied to our fares.
As staff we have the choice between travelling on standby or buying a confirmed ticket at a fixed price
per stretch and depending on the class ( C, B.Flex or B.Light ).
Those tickets are not that expensive as you think.

I don't know colleagues who are flying FR now.

[OO-ITR]

SN staff fly a lot with FR, simply because even though you have big disounts for travel with SN, those discounts are applied to their crazy fares. The result is that it's often sctill cheaper to fly with FR.

1. What is your source to say: "SN staff fly a lot with FR"?
2. What is that "big discount", in % ?

Indeed. Sources please!!!
Or is it chitchatting again?

[euroflyer]

I do indeed see something is unfair here, but I guess it is not RYRs fault ... they just make money by using the unfair regulations in a "clever" way ...
What is unfair is that airlines within the EU are allowed to fly between all places in the EU without a standard tax / social security regime for airlines and their employees ... thereby it becomes interesting for companies and employees to register in the "cheapest" country and fly from / to the "expensive" countries ... it is for the governments and the EU to harmonize rules or, maybe better, to come with a separate tax and social security regime for mobile workers and companies providing services all over the EU
For companies building cars or a chemical plant it is obviously not possible to produce in Belgium, to pay company tax and income tax for the workers in Ireland and only social security contributions in Belgium - because the work place clearly is in Belgium and the product is sold in Belgium or exported from Belgium - with airlines this is different (for road and rail transport and other services to a certain extent as well) and therefore different regulations are needed here ... just my view ...
and, yes the EU has legislative power ... the EU Commission has the right to propose regulations or directives, those are than discussed and decided upon by the European Parliament (yes, it has power and is important here, we all should go to the elections in a few days ...) and the Council of Ministers (i.e. our national governments). Regulations are direct law and have to be enforced by all member states in the same way, directives need to be transposed into national law in all member states, national governments and parliaments can add something in this process but cannot go below the standard in the EU directive ... depending on how you do the statistics, between 60 and 80 percent of laws in all member states are decided upon at EU level in Brussels, national governments have not much left actually except for social security, defense or internal security (police) ...

[Flanker2]

As SN Staff we have indeed staff tickets, but that is not a discount that is applied to our fares.
As staff we have the choice between travelling on standby or buying a confirmed ticket at a fixed price
per stretch and depending on the class ( C, B.Flex or B.Light ).
Those tickets are not that expensive as you think.

Not exactly. The confirmed tickets are a variable of the full fare ticket, I think it was ID50, don't remember. Standby tickets are cheap (at comparable levels as FR), but they're useless if you're heading out with the entire family or flying longhaul with connections on other carriers. Don't remember if those were ID90 or fixed rates. I remember that pilots had some kind of additional perks. And you have to go to their office, because they never answer the phone or e-mails.

Many SN staff fly FR.
One of the reason is the cheaper fares, but another one is because they have more destinations.
Many also book competing carriers for longhaul trips, because it's cheaper most of the time.

[RTM]

Hey Flanker... If you don't know what you are talking about, that is ok, no need to be ashamed. No need to fabricate a truth, and pretend to know it all.

You may have worked at SN as you claim, but it has been a long time for sure... In the mean time, things have changed you know... Progress within the company did not come to a standstill the moment you left. Quite the contrary I would say...

You don't need staff travel anymore to book flights as an amployee and you are not restricted to SN fligts.
Maybe in some individual cases, a SN employee may decide to book a FR flight, but I don't know any, and they are certainly not many.

Anyway... way off topic...

[tolipanebas]

Indeed, RTM,
Once again, flanker shows he bases his opinions about SN on wrong information.
Staff travel has nothing to do with Id50 or Id90 any longer; that was LIGHT YEARS ago.
As several colleagues have already pointed out, even confirmed tickets cost less that the cheapest Ryanair flights from BRU and that includes luggage and a choice of seating, btw.
Maybe we simply have to add this comment of his to the extremely long list of wrong or retarded ideas he pushes very hard? We'll see if there's still some room left at the bottom of his page!
FWIW- even the staff travel office he refers to is as good as gone now: we use the Lufthansa IT platform http://www.myIDtravel.com to issue our own e-staff tickets on a ton of airlines these days...
But maybe somebody has a word to spare about the Belgian FR staff begging SN (and others) for courtesy airline staff reductions for their weekly positioning flights to their bases all the time, one of them a base manager even who can't conveniently reach his own base if he isn't given some positioning tickets out of pity? :shh:

[b-west]

Even though I'd love to find out how much an Id90 ticket on an SN A319 to N'Dolo would be, maybe it's better to not feed the troll and stay on-topic....

[sean1982]

But maybe somebody has a word to spare about the Belgian FR staff begging SN (and others) for courtesy airline staff reductions for their weekly positioning flights to their bases all the time, one of them a base manager even who can't conveniently reach his own base if he isn't given some positioning tickets out of pity? :shh:

Suuuure, begging .... In front of your office on their knees and all right??
I could say something about feeding and troll and all