2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

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Acid-drop
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2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Acid-drop » 09 Jan 2014, 11:07

My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

Acid-drop
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Acid-drop » 09 Jan 2014, 11:07

6,786.979 million passengers (+4%)
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=52044
My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.


crlhub

Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by crlhub » 14 Jan 2014, 15:26

More flights to Greece from CRL with FR which opens Athens.

http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... 696e05d056

crlhub

Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by crlhub » 21 Jan 2014, 17:10

FR pays Belgian social security taxes for new(only)employees at CRL...

http://www.lalibre.be/economie/libre-en ... 3e183f6e0d

Inquirer
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Inquirer » 23 Jan 2014, 11:33

According to both l'Echo as well as De Tijd, SAVE, the Italian private shareholder of CRL, has sent a confidential letter to BCSA to ask them to immediately halt all further investments in the growth of the regional airport as a response to Ryanair's decision to relocate (in part) to BRU.

http://www.lecho.be/actualite/entrepris ... .art?ckc=1

http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/ondernemingen ... 7-3085.art

A brief summary for those without access:

At a BSCA shareholders meeting this afternoon, SAVE -which owns almost half the shares of BSCA through it's subsidiary called Belgium Airport- will officially inform the Walloon government that it is no longer supporting any of the expansion plans for CRL as a consequence of Ryanair's strategic reorientation and partial relocation to BRU.
According to the confidiential letter from SAVE which De Tijd/L'Echo managed to have a look at, they are no longer sure of the relevance of CRL to invest in any further for them!

The news will likely send shockwaves through Wallonia so shortly before the upcoming elections as the Walloon Region -the majority shareholder- will now have to look for another private partner to co-fund growth plans it has bet heavily on, yet which are now increasingly looking like built on shaky grounds.

crlhub

Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by crlhub » 23 Jan 2014, 12:01

Inquirer is having an NVA like orgasm...

Official mail:

Extrait du mail envoyé par SAVE

"Due to the last developments in the market and the substantial impact of the new strategy of Ryanair on Charleroi airport's traffic as well as the EU position, Belgian Airports believes that the company needs more time to analyze the effective impact and design possible different future solutions on a possible terminal enlargement and therefore get the best decision on investments.

For this reason, Belgian Airports requests to postpone the decision to launch the project development in one or two phases and, above all, its costs and timing of realization as we are not sure on which is the best for the airport based on market economics.

We hope you’ll understand the reasoning which is based on market circumstances and agree with our position, we kindly ask to give only general information on this matter, during the board without taking any investment decision at this stage.

The SAVE team is at your disposal to study the possible impacts and scenarios with BSCA at your best convenience."

airazurxtror
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by airazurxtror » 23 Jan 2014, 12:02

Before any new expansion at Gosselies, it would surely be advisable to wait a bit - to see how it will turn out with Ryanair.
On the other side, Zaventem should reactivate its plan for an LCC terminal, the sooner the better.
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

cnc
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by cnc » 23 Jan 2014, 12:09

airazurxtror wrote: On the other side, Zaventem should reactivate its plan for an LCC terminal, the sooner the better.
why? it would be best for all if they didn't. BRU doesn't currently need it, FR doesn't ask for it. in a way they could keep CRL as low cost and use BRU to explore the premium market.

crew1990
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by crew1990 » 23 Jan 2014, 12:15

It would be totally unfair, why to operator would have to pay to price different to use the same platform?

crlhub

Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by crlhub » 23 Jan 2014, 12:16

They are just trying to find a pretext in fact,it is nothing new:

Mais le groupe SAVE occupe une position particulière dans l’actionnariat de l’aéroport. Actuellement minoritaire (27% via sa société Belgian Airport), l’Italien, qui gère en Italie l’aéroport de Venise, souhaitait accroître sa participation jusqu’à 48%, comme prévu par les accords avec le partenaire public (la Région wallonne). Le prix proposé par SAVE avait toutefois été jugé trop bas par la Région, une banque d’affaires a été chargée, c’est en cours, d’évaluer l’exacte valeur de l’aéroport avant toute modification d’actionnariat. Les relations entre actionnaires s’en sont trouvées tendues. C’est sans doute dans ce contexte de bras-de-fer entre actionnaires qu’il faut lire l’action intentée aujourd’hui par SAVE : faire constater par l’aéroport que son développement (et donc sa valeur?) est entravé par les intentions de Ryanair.

http://www.rtbf.be/info/regions/detail_ ... id=8182837

ADP could be interested to take over SAVE participation and to increase it.

More to come.
Last edited by crlhub on 23 Jan 2014, 12:27, edited 1 time in total.

sean1982
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by sean1982 » 23 Jan 2014, 12:19

crew1990 wrote:It would be totally unfair, why to operator would have to pay to price different to use the same platform?
If there would be an LCC terminal it is NOT the same platform, but I agree with cnc ... wr don't need an LCC terminal at BRU ... Ryanair clearly wants to the BRU flights as a premium product.

crew1990
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by crew1990 » 23 Jan 2014, 12:22

I understand what you mean Sean, it would be like in MRS with their MP2, it wouldn't be the same infrastructure but it would still be the same airport, with all the advantage like the proximity to Brussels, a train station etc...

airazurxtror
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by airazurxtror » 23 Jan 2014, 13:09

cnc wrote: BRU doesn't currently need it, FR doesn't ask for it. in a way they could keep CRL as low cost and use BRU to explore the premium market.
There are some 1,2 million citizens in the Region Brussels Capital, and they have the right of an easy access to the low-cost carriers at Brussels Airport.
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

Squelsh
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Squelsh » 23 Jan 2014, 13:10

crlhub wrote:They are just trying to find a pretext in fact,it is nothing new:

Mais le groupe SAVE occupe une position particulière dans l’actionnariat de l’aéroport. Actuellement minoritaire (27% via sa société Belgian Airport), l’Italien, qui gère en Italie l’aéroport de Venise, souhaitait accroître sa participation jusqu’à 48%, comme prévu par les accords avec le partenaire public (la Région wallonne). Le prix proposé par SAVE avait toutefois été jugé trop bas par la Région, une banque d’affaires a été chargée, c’est en cours, d’évaluer l’exacte valeur de l’aéroport avant toute modification d’actionnariat. Les relations entre actionnaires s’en sont trouvées tendues. C’est sans doute dans ce contexte de bras-de-fer entre actionnaires qu’il faut lire l’action intentée aujourd’hui par SAVE : faire constater par l’aéroport que son développement (et donc sa valeur?) est entravé par les intentions de Ryanair.

http://www.rtbf.be/info/regions/detail_ ... id=8182837

ADP could be interested to take over SAVE participation and to increase it.

More to come.
Maybe I'm having a bit of an NVA orgasm as you call it, but it would be considerate (and as per forum rules) to also provide a summary in English iso pasting a French text in an English part of the boards.. thank you :roll:

Inquirer
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Inquirer » 23 Jan 2014, 13:18

crlhub wrote:Inquirer is having an NVA like orgasm...
Oh please...

I simply linked to 2 news sources, one in Dutch the other in French and provided a brief translation of their content, nothing more! Just because you don't like the news itself, doesn't justify this vulgar comment.

Besides, you may have noticed that I have for long been saying I think it's plain stupid that within one country we use taxpayers money to compete with basically ourselves (since in the end, there's still a common account which pays for it all), because this internal competition only benefits external parties in the end, so I don't think that is view exactly matches the profile of an NVA militant, is it?
sean1982 wrote:Ryanair clearly wants to the BRU flights as a premium product.
That's indeed how I see it too and SAVE may have come to the conclusion that there are quite a number of routes at CRL which do have the potential to do significantly better from such a premium point of departure like BRU, despite the higher costs associated with that, hence their reluctance to invest any further in expansion of CRL.

I suppose the notorious Gerona case study is something which they keep in mind, especially now that Ryanair can't drop its ultra low cost strategy quickly enough for the much more successful hybrid model of a vueling or an easyjet.
Last edited by Inquirer on 23 Jan 2014, 13:19, edited 4 times in total.

cnc
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by cnc » 23 Jan 2014, 13:18

airazurxtror wrote:
cnc wrote: BRU doesn't currently need it, FR doesn't ask for it. in a way they could keep CRL as low cost and use BRU to explore the premium market.
There are some 1,2 million citizens in the Region Brussels Capital, and they have the right of an easy access to the low-cost carriers at Brussels Airport.
ah right, at the moment BRU is barricaded so those 1.2 million people can't have easy access to the airport :roll:

sean1982
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by sean1982 » 23 Jan 2014, 13:24

There is nothing that customers hate more then LCC terminals a.k.a cattle farms. I couldn't be happier that FR has finally realised that. The less "cattle farms" the better. That combined with allocated seating will in itself significantly improve customer experience.

PS: CRL is an okay airport, good examples of cattlefarms are: BGY, CIA, MRS MP2, HHN for example.

Inquirer
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by Inquirer » 23 Jan 2014, 13:41

sean1982 wrote:There is nothing that customers hate more then LCC terminals a.k.a cattle farms. I couldn't be happier that FR has finally realised that. The less "cattle farms" the better. That combined with allocated seating will in itself significantly improve customer experience.
Indeed!

Let's hope they also work on the other issues, like guaranteed cabin luggage storage room for their premium customers on a full flight, delivery at aircraft of excess cabin luggage taken off at boarding (do you already know if this is going to be the case, btw?), full ticket flexibility and working through GDSs so corporate travel departments can deal with (re-)bookings without need for the one on a business tour to always 'give them a call'.

Easyjet is almost there, although they still let you down on a few items, but from what I have read so far, I think ryanair has still a considerable way to go. I understand them hesitating because as they move further in this direction to gain consideration by real corporate flyers, they also inevitably drive up their unit costs and scare off traditional customers of theirs, but as easyjet, vueling, germanwings and others are showing however, that is where the real center of the market is, so IMHO it is inevitably to way to go for all airlines, be they ultra low costs or network carriers: nobody wants to pay 800 euro for a return ticket any longer, but at the other end of the spectrum, those who really don't want to pay say more than 100 euro are not the very frequent flyers either and can be easily ditched without too much impact on the bottom line if replaced be a bunch of frequent flyers from the midrange price category.

Good to see ryanair finally admitting to that concept openly now (I still remember that just half a year ago, when I wrote the very same after their first profit warning, I got flamed for even daring to suggest this), but at the same time SAVE must have understood it means that long term such a kind of hybrid airline can only have its leisure routes from CRL, hence their decision of today to halt all investments until they have a better view on the future capacity needs of CRL.

sean1982
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Re: 2014 Charleroi airport (CRL/EBCI) latest news

Post by sean1982 » 23 Jan 2014, 14:05

Inquirer, the bottom line is still to offer the cheapest fare in europe, but to attract extra passengers who would previously find FR to be to inconvenient. I for one am very curious to see what they will roll out around april-may when they roll out their corporate packages.

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