Abnormalities in BRU-ANR-CRL-LGG-OST in 2014

[cnc]

how about a stop on the pollution of this topic?

[sean1982]

I was just commenting on an abnormality. Are you part of the forumpolice? Who are you to decide who can write what in which topic?

[cnc]

this is one of the topics that should be about abnormality reports and nothing else, not about flaming at SN, FR or any airline or trying to make personal remarks

[convair]

There may be a big difference: FR would not delay a flight by 24 hrs, it would cancel it outright and tell the pax to either book an alternative FR flight many days later or be reimbursed for whatever little amount the paid. SN will accommodate its pax in a hotel, feed them and allow them to make a phone call, and in addition pay them 600 euros for the delay.

Wrong again, FR would fly in a spare airplane with only a few hours delay, with no need for hotels, etc...

You're probably right, but when such incident happens in Charleroi, it's easier to cope with than in Banjul or Dakar.

this is one of the topics that should be about abnormality reports and nothing else, not about flaming at SN, FR or any airline or trying to make personal remarks

I agree with you in theory, but abnormalities often call for comments/remarks; this is unavoidable.

[SN1203]

Ok, so on a day where 8 A330s are supposed to fly and one breaks down, a flight has to be delayed by 24hrs as there is no spare aircraft today (on most days, there is actually, so bad luck today). Let's continue the screaming and sensationalism

Some people compare such an irregularity on a widebody fleet of 8 jets to an airline operating +100 B737s in Europe where a few phone calls have to be made to activate a standby B737.

I don't see the link between the two as operationally you're talking about two different worlds. In a subfleet of 8 A330s, you will never have a spare aircraft available all the time.

After all the bad luck often caused in the past weeks by trucks bumping into an A330 or by other damage on the ground, let's hope that SN's operations will soon be stable again. Just like it's cool for FR to have a B737 waiting to pick up stranded passengers, just like SN has an A319 and an ARJ waiting to cover for irregs. On longhaul, irregs are very visible (look at JAF too) if you have a small widebody subfleet. Doesn't say much about reliability, it's just a consequence of the impossibility to have 100% dispatch reliability or avoiding damage to your plane by external parties.

[sean1982]

I've never seen such long and frequent delay, even on the long haul, at KL, BA, LH, EK and AF (to name a few) Just like FR they do not have a higher dispatch reliability (allthough they probably do,because their fleet is younger) but at least a more efficient flight ops department.

[convair]

I don't see the link between the two as operationally you're talking about two different worlds. In a subfleet of 8 A330s, you will never have a spare aircraft available all the time.

I agree with you on that one; it is what I meant when I pointed out to sean1982 that those incidents are easier to cope with in Charleroi than in Banjul or Dakar.

After all the bad luck often caused in the past weeks by trucks bumping into an A330 or by other damage on the ground, let's hope that SN's operations will soon be stable again. Just like it's cool for FR to have a B737 waiting to pick up stranded passengers, just like SN has an A319 and an ARJ waiting to cover for irregs. On longhaul, irregs are very visible (look at JAF too) if you have a small widebody subfleet. Doesn't say much about reliability, it's just a consequence of the impossibility to have 100% dispatch reliability or avoiding damage to your plane by external parties.

I do hope you are right, but SN's long-haul fleet has had many aog in the past few weeks; are they all due to external circumstances? It is becoming hard to believe and since we (understandably) never see any report on the causes, it is normal to point to the age of these aircraft.

[RoMax]

I've never seen such long and frequent delay, even on the long haul, at KL, BA, LH, EK and AF (to name a few) Just like FR they do not have a higher dispatch reliability (allthough they probably do,because their fleet is younger) but at least a more efficient flight ops department.

KL, BA, LH, EK and AF are exactly examples you should not give as they are not comparable with SN. They have large widebody fleets, which means they ALWAYS have back up long haul aircraft ready to jump in. SN has 8 widebody aircraft and as clearly stated in the post of SN1203, you can't always have a back up with such a small fleet.

SN's A330 fleet is old, but that's not the only problem, they operate in a difficult environment in Africa. These aircraft which mostly fly such routes operate in hot, humid, shaky (have you seen runways and taxiways of certain airports they operate at ), ... conditions. That's difficult, but having an old fleet of course doesn't exactly help. Combine that with numerous incidents with FOD and trucks damaging the aircraft and you get a very nasty image.

If the problems are structural (which we can't judge without detailed views on the maintenance documentation), SN should indeed take actions to replace their old fleet. If not, it's a matter of try to expand and have more back up in the fleet.

[sean1982]

If the problems are structural (which we can't judge without detailed views on the maintenance documentation), SN should indeed take actions to replace their old fleet. If not, it's a matter of try to expand and have more back up in the fleet.

Exactly my point. Do it properly or dont do it at all. We've seen weeks of delays and cancellations. Imagine being a passenger on one of these flights. For me that would be a good reason never to book SN again. Again!

[SN1203]

Romax, your posting summarizes it very clearly... Funny how some people first compare a widebody fleet of 8 units to FR, followed by LH and KL. And even blame a flight ops department at the same time, while their own understanding of airline ops seems to be somehow lacking.

Sean1982: unless you are some aviation wizzard with access to all different kinds of statistics, you don't know what the technical reliability is of SN's widebody fleet compared to whatever airline you want. Yes SN's A330s are old dogs, but the same goes for BA's B747s and B767s, KL B747s, LH A343s and B744s. A widebody is designed for at least 20-25 years of passenger revenue flights. Yes SN's A330s have their technical glitches, but the main difference with the others is that with 8 units, you simply have less back-up compared to operating 40 or 50 units which makes most of your irregs visible, like today's 24h delay. If your LH B744 to JFK goes tech tomorrow, they'll either use a spare one or delay your flight by 2-3hrs to swap it with a later B744 departure. Is this really so hard to get?

[sean1982]

The fact that you even try to justify this is ludicrous. Or you make sure you have at least one back up or you make your schedule less heavy. Now you're trying to keep old birds in the sky on a schedule way too dense for them and in the mean time dissappoint your passengers over and over again. Just opposite of what other airlines do, wheter it would be FR or EZY on short haul or the surrounding countries on long haul

It's not rocket science really, seems like my knowledge of airline ops with 10+ years of expirience aint that bad after all

[airazurxtror]

Funny how some people first compare a widebody fleet of 8 units to FR, followed by LH and KL. And even blame a flight ops department at the same time, while their own understanding of airline ops seems to be somehow lacking.

Somebody posted :
There may be a big difference: FR would not delay a flight by 24 hrs, it would cancel it outright and tell the pax to either book an alternative FR flight many days later or be reimbursed for whatever little amount the paid.
And I said : that is not true, in my experience.
I don't compare fleets and I have absolutely no understanding or knowledge of "airline ops".
As a fare-paying customer, I just don't bear to be left stranded in an airport by an aog and a 24 hours delay, be it a small or a large airline : that the "airline ops" manage otherwise, that's their job !

[SN1203]

Airazurxtror - that's a fair point, a fare paying passenger shouldn't care about all this complexity. However, if you have an AOG at an outstation (talking longhaul operations here), 24hrs is simply what it takes to position technicians and spare parts, repair the aircraft and get it back to base.

[sn26567]

Due to security reasons (suspicious abandoned bag leading to the evacuation of the airport), Edinburgh airport has been closed to all air traffic. As a consequence, flight SN2063 (BRU-EDI DH4) has been diverted to Glasgow and return flight SN2064 cancelled.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-e ... e-25634957

[Passenger]

From 5th January 2014:

Ryanair flight FR-9052 from Alicante to Charleroi was accelerating for takeoff when the crew received a door indication for one of the overwing exits and rejected takeoff at low speed. The aircraft slowed safely and returned to the apron. Maintenance determined a fault in the Proximity Swith Electronic Unit (PSEU) which caused the door indication.

Source - more details:
http://avherald.com/h?article=46e2cfec&opt=0

[airazurxtror]

The traffic at the Belgian airports could be perturbed saturday by the Unions. Final decision this afternoon :

http://www.lalibre.be/economie/actualit ... 5ef7e90cd7

[tangolima]

Hello

SN2288 (OODWJ) from OSL diverted this morning to RTM

Greetings,

[woutertheboy]

Not really an abnormality in Belgium, but it's a Belgian airline and I didn't know where to post it.

JAF2FH Brest-Toulon, operated by OO-JEM (E-190) -> Squawk 7700

[sdbelgium]

A Blue Air Boeing 737-400, registration YR-BAF performing flight 0B-124 from Brussels (Belgium) to Bucharest Otopeni (Romania) with 97 people on board, was enroute at FL370 nearing the top of descent towards Bucharest when the crew needed to initiate an emergency descent due to the loss of cabin pressure, passenger oxygen masks were released. The aircraft continued for a safe landing at Otopeni Airport.

Source: http://avherald.com/h?article=46e776bb&opt=0

[sean1982]

BEL9YY, OO-DWJ currently circling over ANR, seems to be returning to BRU