Ryanair in 2014

[RoMax]

Once again there is some serious overreacting in this topic. There is really no need for that. End of story (at least for me), I tried to post a normal reply regarding the way BRU stands 'against' Ryanair, but it turns once again in a complete different discussion. It's really a pity. There is simply no fun anymore in reading this forum. Even airlines.net with the frequent Airbus vs Boeing and airline X vs airline Y discussions is not as screwed up as the athmosphere on this forum. :thumbdown:

[sean1982]

Now tell me which "standing" BRU has? Nothing. Which American business man is thinking: When I go on business, I'll choose to go through BRU? Unless they have to go to Africa (for now, but with Turkish and the likes that will go too), none.

You die hard BRU (SN) fanboys may not like it ... but BRU IS empty during the day. wave in the morning, wave in the evening ... done, and politically shut down at night. Let's compare with what lies around us shall we? A oneworld HUB (LHR), a TRUE star HUB (FRA, which LH will never allow to become less in favour of BRU, not in your wildest dreams), and 2 SKYTEAM HUBS (AMS and CDG)

What about the "standing" of airports like LGW, MAD, DUB, ... For years and years they have been combining succesfully LCC flights with legacy. If BRU wants a fighting chance, maybe they should reconsider what they are doing and more importantly don't behave like the emperor of Europe when they are barely hanging on to the bottom steps of major European airports.

Well nobody has ever given me a sensible answer to this ... because there is none.

[sn26567]

Nothing arrogant on my side, sean. When I wrote that Ryanair was not welcome at BRU, I was simply reproducing the words of Melchior Wathelet, Secretary of State for Mobility, and Arnaud Feist, CEO of Brussels Airport, saying that a carrier such as Ryanair does not fit with the strategy of Brussels Airport to become a Star Alliance hub. It does not imply anything more or anything less.

Now let's return to the core of this discussion: what is MOL going to announce in Brussels?

[sean1982]

Sure, let's ignore the burning questions that does not fit with all your conjuring theories lmfao

While some of you here are debating the fact that BRU will be less attractive because of "tramp" Ryanair moving in ... find me 1 airport that has LESS passengers since FR started operating there because of the presence of it. Just 1

[danieln]

I would not be suprised if MOL came to Brussels to announce new routes from Charleroi instead of BRU. It could be a nice gesture towards CRL now that FR will fly from BRU as well. After all, Charleroi has always been a very loyal partner towards Ryanair.
And, by the way, press conferences in the past about CRL were usually held in Brussels.

[airazurxtror]

Michael O'Leary will hold a press conference in Brussels (but not at the airport where he is not welcome) on Wednesday 22 January at 09:00.

Why should he hold his press conference countryside at Zaventem, when there are much more convenient and better equipped press centers in Brussels ?
And who does not welcome Ryanair in Brussels ? Ryanair is sure welcome by the customers, and their opinion is much more important that the wishes of the fat cats at SN.

[sn26567]

Why should he hold his press conference countryside at Zaventem, when there are much more convenient and better equipped press centers in Brussels ?

Because most airlines announcing new services do it at the airport, which has all the necessary facilities.

And who does not welcome Ryanair in Brussels ?

See my detailed answer above: Secretary of State for Mobility Wathelet and Airport CEO Feist.

Oh, and by the way, now there are Ryanair ads on Luchtzak.

[RoMax]

Sure, let's ignore the burning questions that does not fit with all your conjuring theories

These "burning questions" would be easier to answer if the 'other side' of the discussion wouldn't be so ignorant, accusing others of being dumb SN/BRU fan boys, while protecting Ryanair as if they own the company themself.

Why is BRU not such a hub such as LHR, AMS, FRA, CDG? If that question is asked by someone who acts like he knows much about aviation... To start with: catchement area (BRU is not exactly the same as FRA which is the financial centre of the biggest European economy, or Paris or London the two center cities of Europe, not even Amsterdam), secondly historicly strong home carriers (is not BRU's fault Sabena couldn't develop a similar transfer strategy as KLM) and I can go on and on with reasons that affect BRU but are not something they can change.

The other part about the 'degradation' of the BRU in case Rynair would come, well that's not my opinion on it. But this:

If BRU wants a fighting chance, maybe they should reconsider what they are doing and more importantly don't behave like the emperor of Europe when they are barely hanging on to the bottom steps of major European airports.

BRU is not 'so stupid' not to develop LCC. But they pointed their focus on easyJet, Vueling and multiple smaller players. Ryanair was not part of their LCC development and BRU is not exactly happy they are comming now, probably pushing Vueling out of several new routes they didn't even launched yet after BRU tried so hard to make BRU the newest Vueling base.

And besides, if BRU is such a horrible airport, why did they win over the past let's say 5 years numerous awards and comments from organisations such as IATA, ACI, ... Airlines clearly agree that BRU does a good job in attracting them, because at the end of 2012 they were selected by a jury (after already being shortlisted by airline votes) as the airport with the best marketing campaign in Europe and afterwards the World Routes Airport Marketing award in the global category. In 2013 they didn't win, and were 'just' highly commended.

Look I understand you don't agree with BRU's way of reacting on Ryanair. But I don't understand that you have to turn it into another anti-BRU campaign.

[sean1982]

I'm absolutely NOT anti-BRU .... but the whole publicly denouncing a customer who will probably bring them more passengers that Easy and Vueling will ever bring, and like I said having their pockets open on the other side is just pure shambles.

All those reasons that you have just mentioned why BRU is not like the other big players around us are not going to change: catchement area will stay the same, strong home carrier (might change, but not in the first decade for sure) is not there either. Actually a lot can be said about hanging your whole business plan on the business of someone else who is not exactly flourishing. So why behave like that when you have a CUSTOMER who can make them millions of euro's a year? So let's say they would prevent FR from flying in BRU. What's the plan then? Continue like now? 1 wave in the morning and 1 wave in the evening ... and 4 movements an hours through the rest of the day.

Like I said before, give me 1 airport whose passengers numbers dropped because of the presence of FR. Just 1

[sean1982]

and by latest censorship by the moderator ,posts he doesn't like just get removed like that .... respectfull!

[teach]

Seriously, can you little children stop with the petty fights please? You're acting like six year-olds.

Sean, give it a rest. Seriously. Stop taking everything so personally, and stop twisting people's words to make it sound like they're either attacking FR, or being arrogant towards FR. Nobody is comparing FR to a tramp, I don't even see anyone attacking FR. I merely see people explaining what BRU's rationale might be to act the way they appear to be doing, and you for some inexplicable reason taking that personally, and throwing the toys out of your pram in response.

Not every slight disagreement needs to be magnified and turned into a giant pissing contest. Learn to step back and let it go. Because in the end, they only ones you're arguing with are yourself and the image you've created in your head about your 'opponent'.

Seriously: quit it.

[sean1982]

If that question is asked by someone who acts like he knows much about aviation...

Ever tried to get into a posh club on a Saturday night, looking like a tramp for instance

because they fear the presence of 'unsuitable' guests will ruin the image of upmarket exclusivity they carefully built.

ryanair are a bit like a bunch of Russian tourists settling in at a posh 4 star hotel,

Not taking anything personal, just giving you the "highlights" of the discussion.

Once again ... I will accept all arguments if anyone finds me 1 airport who because of Ryanair's presence lost out on passengers. Just 1

[Flanker2]

Sean1982, don't let yourself get troubled by the opinions of very few here. Whether they like it or not, they will have to get used to see the harp tails flying in and out of Brussels.

Let's see what MOL announces on Wednesday. New BRU routes or CRL routes or...?

BRU's position with regards to FR is not a surprise. They are both happy and not happy at the same time, because yes it's a new customer but it also puts pressure on their existing best customer.

However, if you think about it for a second, BRU has the possibility to make it more sustainable for SN, by giving them discounts on the many fees and rent they pay at the airport for their operations, compensating it by the new revenues that FR bring in. It will be partly BRU's job to find a sustainable balance, even if that won't be easy.

Come to think of it, FR could have been a better take-over candidate for SN than LH, to use SN as base for their low-cost longhaul operations instead of the lucky Shamrock that FR never seem to be able to grab.
The little hope I have is that LH sold BD to its arch rival BA... if LH would sell its stake in SN to FR, I see a great future for Belgian aviation, even if there is a risk that FR would do it for the pleasure of shutting it down and taking over BRU rather than developing low-cost longhaul using it.

[teach]

Not taking anything personal, just giving you the "highlights" of the discussion.

Once again ... I will accept all arguments if anyone finds me 1 airport who because of Ryanair's presence lost out on passengers. Just 1

Like I said: You're arguing with yourself and the image you've created in your head of your opponents. Not a single one of your quotes is an attack on FR. Not one. They only become attacks if and when you desperately want them to be attacks. Everything you quoted is nothing more and nothing less than someone illustrating how Brussels Airport might see FR, and how some businesses most certainly do select the clientele they wish to serve, and refuse customers because they don't fit that profile. The tramp at the posh club is just an illustration of that, it is not someone saying that FR is a tramp. That's just you feeling the desperate need to interpret it that way so you can create an enemy figure to argue with. The people explaining this here are not saying this is how THEY see FR, and they are not saying they agree with that point of view. That part is just your imagination.

I mean, just look at what you're arguing about now: you're now demanding to see proof of airports that have lost passengers because of FR. A claim nobody here has made, but you seem to have convinced yourself is what others are arguing will happen.

You're tilting at windmills.

Let it go.

Or, alternatively, continue single-handedly destroying the topic about your favorite airline with your petty arguments, i.e. shoot yourself in the foot. The choice is yours, choose wisely...

[sean1982]

you aren't going to be very pleased with the presence of customers which won't exactly fit in as these risk moving out in response!

Nobody said that? really? read again please, properly maybe


It's not my favourite airline teach, it's my employer. If you have a loyalty towards yours ... how would you feel if anyone compares it with " a russian tourist moving into a luxury hotel" ... and what does that make of it's employees?

If BRU has that opinion ... then I can say whatever I want about that ... it's called freedom of speech. And your futile attempt to take that right from me by attacking me personally, is sure as hell not going to stop me.

[SabenaForever]

Once again ... I will accept all arguments if anyone finds me 1 airport who because of Ryanair's presence lost out on passengers. Just 1

I don't get your point... So every airport who has a increase in passengers can thank this to RYR?
Bon, you desperately wan't one! Madrid-Barajas: lost 5 million passengers

[sean1982]

Not because of Ryanair though ... on the contrary ... unless you're going to blame the eurocrisis on ryanair as well

[airazurxtror]

That Gustin, Wathelet and Feist don't like Ryanair to come in Brussels is uninteresting.
The customers like it, and that is the important thing.
The airport is there to be of service to the customers, not the reverse.

[teach]

you aren't going to be very pleased with the presence of customers which won't exactly fit in as these risk moving out in response!

Nobody said that? really? read again please, properly maybe


It's not my favourite airline teach, it's my employer. If you have a loyalty towards yours ... how would you feel if anyone compares it with " a russian tourist moving into a luxury hotel" ... and what does that make of it's employees?

If BRU has that opinion ... then I can say whatever I want about that ... it's called freedom of speech. And your futile attempt to take that right from me by attacking me personally, is sure as hell not going to stop me.

I see you've chosen foolishly, not wisely. And that you've chosen to completely ignore literally everything I've said, and to continue looking to pick fights where none were intended.

Oh well, your loss.

[sean1982]

Answering on the subject rather than on the person would be nice.