Ryanair at Brussels Airport

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cnc
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Re: Ryanair: the Brussels launch event

Post by cnc » 28 Feb 2014, 19:24

SNam wrote:It is not horrible at all, a bit nose heavy but not that much. Passengers are divided automatically across the cabin to achieve a more or less ideal situation. Never had trim problems with the load sheet (it's manual).
our 738's and the 738's i know from when i was still working for a handling agent always had an ideal trim with deadload 25% front and 75% rear and depending on the airline regulations load distribution from 50/50 like JAF to 1/3 TRA
anyway its offtopic.
how about the rotation times at BRU?

appel
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Re: Ryanair: the Brussels launch event

Post by appel » 28 Feb 2014, 19:34

haven't seen the turnaround times in bru yet but almost certain they are 25 mins
only some spanish airports have 35 mins because they board using the jetbridges there

cnc
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Re: Ryanair: the Brussels launch event

Post by cnc » 28 Feb 2014, 19:37

somehow i doubt swissport will be able to keep up doing the rotations in 25mins

appel
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Re: Ryanair: the Brussels launch event

Post by appel » 28 Feb 2014, 20:25

Why won't they be able?
if you have all the outbound luggage ready when the plane arrives and you take it to the aircraft when you go to take out the inbound that's the most time consuming task i think.
you can also have the pax ready to board before the plane arrives.
And al the rest is only a matter how fast the pax get off and on the aircraft.

SNam
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Location: Brussels

Re: Ryanair: the Brussels launch event

Post by SNam » 28 Feb 2014, 20:36

I guess cnc is referring to manpower but they are hiring so maybe Swissport can continue to provide enough manpower to keep the rotations as low as possible.

I don't know if you saw the arr and dep times but rotations at BRU are a bit longer. Don't really know the reason for that. For example the FCO flights arrive around 0905 and leave at 0940.

cnc
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Re: Ryanair: the Brussels launch event

Post by cnc » 28 Feb 2014, 20:48

SNam wrote:I guess cnc is referring to manpower but they are hiring so maybe Swissport can continue to provide enough manpower to keep the rotations as low as possible.
manpower, trained manpower mostly, equipment,...
its not a rare fact to have an aircraft arriving at the gate/stand and no ground crew there yet or an aircraft ready to go but still waiting for the pushback.
sometimes due to faults at the GOC, sometimes lak of manpower/equipment or just because they give priority to some other rotations.
i'm not blaming anyone but it does happen at BRU. when you have 1 hour rotations its not that hard to win back delay times on your next rotations but when you have 25min rotations...
anyway lets wait and see

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 02 Mar 2014, 10:37

teddybAIR wrote:For info, flightlevel mentions that RYR's ambition is an 82% LF for BRU flights and that yesterday's flights attained an average 62% LF: 73% of outbound flights and 52% for inbound flights. While the absolute number is impressive, the question remains whether this will be sustained when reverting to a profitable price level.
I find this analysis interesting! Will we be able to follow these figures so carefully within the next days?

Sean_DM
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by Sean_DM » 02 Mar 2014, 10:45

I can tell you that in the last couple of days outbound flights are between 90-100% loadfactor while inbound is hovering around 80% with expectations to rise (as the outbound people usually return as well)

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 02 Mar 2014, 10:54

Very good performances I would say... Would also be interested to know more about these passengers :
- is there a transfer of pax from CRL to BRU?
- is it à new generated traffic?
- are these pax stolen to SN, IB, AZ and others? Would be interesting to know about the evolution on their loadfactors as well...
Btw, surprising figures... I am impressed...

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RoMax
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by RoMax » 02 Mar 2014, 11:10

It will be a combination. The price battle at BRU resulted in extremely low prices (especially from FR which has been selling quite some tickets which do not even cover the airport charges), which in its turn resulted in a lot of people buying tickets for a trip they maybe wouldn't have made without these low prices at BRU.
Also FR will see without doubt less pax at CRL (maybe not already, but certainly this summer, capacity at CRL will be lower as well).
And probably also some pax are stolen away from the carriers which were already operating on these routes from BRU.

The loadfactors indeed look good, but that says nothing about the real performance of the routes yet. Many of these tickets were sold at rock bottom prices on which FR makes a significant loss. It would be interesting to know the yields, but of course that's FR management information only.

b720
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by b720 » 02 Mar 2014, 11:21

I think that first and foremost it is traffic cannibalised from fr s own operation at CRL. I gues that all
Of their pax originating north of brussels, brussels, will most probably shift to BRU. Add to that the dirt cheap prices will attract some of their own clients, pus newly generated business and some from all other airlines. I think I will be more interesting to observe load factor nd operations at CRL in th bed future, than those of SN o other in BRU.

airazurxtror
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by airazurxtror » 02 Mar 2014, 11:24

RoMax wrote: extremely low prices (especially from FR which has been selling quite some tickets which do not even cover the airport charges)
On top of the ticket price come the "ancillary revenues" : hold luggage, reserved seat, food, drink and other sales on board, sale via the ryanair site of travel insurance, bus tickets, car hire, hôtel rooms and so on.
My mpression is that most Ryanair passengers buy something besides the sole air ticket.
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

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RoMax
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by RoMax » 02 Mar 2014, 11:55

airazurxtror wrote:
RoMax wrote: extremely low prices (especially from FR which has been selling quite some tickets which do not even cover the airport charges)
On top of the ticket price come the "ancillary revenues" : hold luggage, reserved seat, food, drink and other sales on board, sale via the ryanair site of travel insurance, bus tickets, car hire, hôtel rooms and so on.
My mpression is that most Ryanair passengers buy something besides the sole air ticket.
That's true, but not all pax by 'the whole packet' and no doubt FR sold a lot of tickets with a significant loss to promote their BRU base and get high loadfactors from the start.

Btw, about the high loadfactors at this moment, don't forget the holidays just started...

Inquirer
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by Inquirer » 02 Mar 2014, 12:22

Since it becomes sort of a habit here, apparently:
I took the FCO flight of Brussels this morning and it was well loaded.
Tried to count them and it looked like 120 to 130 on an A319.
Holidays are indeed well underway, because a lot of non 'white-shirt-and-tie people' on board this flight for once.

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sn26567
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by sn26567 » 02 Mar 2014, 12:32

b720 wrote:I think that first and foremost it is traffic cannibalised from fr s own operation at CRL. I guess that all of their pax originating north of Brussels, Brussels, will most probably shift to BRU.
Not so. CRL has a lot more destinations than BRU and will continue to attract passengers from a large hinterland for its exclusive destinations.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Passenger
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by Passenger » 02 Mar 2014, 12:36

b720 wrote:I think that first and foremost it is traffic cannibalised from its own operation at CRL. I guess that all of their pax originating north of Brussels, will most probably shift to BRU. Add to that the dirt cheap prices will attract some of their own clients, pus newly generated business and some from all other airlines. I think it will be more interesting to observe load factor and operations at CRL in the future, than those of SN or others in BRU.
Indeed. A few years ago, CRL-manager Buelens said that 65% of the CRL-clients come from Brussels or Flanders. So it's quite normal that they will shift to BRU. The most important figure that Dublin now will look at, is “do we have first-time-clients for our BRU-flights, or had they flown with us before?” Translated: “do we hurt the competition at BRU with our dumping prices, or are we just giving away money to existing clients who were willing to buy a more expensive ticket?”
RoMax wrote:It will be a combination. The price battle at BRU resulted in extremely low prices (especially from FR which has been selling quite some tickets which do not even cover the airport charges), which in its turn resulted in a lot of people buying tickets for a trip they maybe wouldn't have made without these low prices at BRU. Also FR will see without doubt less pax at CRL (maybe not already, but certainly this summer, capacity at CRL will be lower as well). And probably also some pax are stolen away from the carriers which were already operating on these routes from BRU. The loadfactors indeed look good, but that says nothing about the real performance of the routes yet. Many of these tickets were sold at rock bottom prices on which FR makes a significant loss. It would be interesting to know the yields, but of course that's FR management information only.
“It’s very normal that Ryanair got this 80% overall load factor: they sold at real dumping prices during the last weeks”. This is not my statement, but from Thierry Vanelslander, professor Transport Economics at the University Antwerpen, in Het Nieuwsblad 28/02/2014.

One doens’t need a computer to calculate the yield of these first flights: they’re below zero. Unless 50% of the passengers forgot to print their boarding pass at home, hadn’t checked in their luggage online, made a spelling error in their name, arrived at the gate with overseized hand luggage, etc.

The only winners in this battle so far are the passengers (quote from professor Vanelslander).

The biggest looser will be CRL, and the dismissal of David Gering (official “ex” FR) is a clear sign that CRL is very unhappy with Ryanair’s decision to open a second Belgian station.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 02 Mar 2014, 13:21

Inquirer wrote:Since it becomes sort of a habit here, apparently:
I took the FCO flight of Brussels this morning and it was well loaded.
Tried to count them and it looked like 120 to 130 on an A319.
Holidays are indeed well underway, because a lot of non 'white-shirt-and-tie people' on board this flight for once.
Which flight did you take? AZ or SN?

Sean_DM
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by Sean_DM » 02 Mar 2014, 14:24

Passenger wrote:
One doens’t need a computer to calculate the yield of these first flights: they’re below zero. Unless 50% of the passengers forgot to print their boarding pass at home, hadn’t checked in their luggage online, made a spelling error in their name, arrived at the gate with overseized hand luggage, etc.

The only winners in this battle so far are the passengers (quote from professor Vanelslander).
I think professor Vanelsander should take some additional lessons himself .. yields are way above expected levels ... ancillary revenue is way above expectancy .. much higher than CRL. Nobody so far has had to pay extra for all of the things you mentioned as FR doesn not care so much about these rules anymore.

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RoMax
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by RoMax » 02 Mar 2014, 16:26

Sean_DM wrote: I think professor Vanelsander should take some additional lessons himself .. yields are way above expected levels ... ancillary revenue is way above expectancy .. much higher than CRL.
And do you have data to prove that? Of course not, that's not available for 'low ranked' staff. You probably heard this from other people within the company that are said to have those data. And you believe it? As if FR is going to admit the real situation (wether it is bad or not), even to its own staff. That they would say "yields are above expectations and ancillary revenue way above expectancy" is not a suprise, as from the moment they anounced a base at BRU, you could have known they would tell you this once the base was launched wether it is true or not.

Like they said the average loadfactor was about 80% as from the start, well it was not.

Sean_DM
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Re: Ryanair at Brussels Airport

Post by Sean_DM » 02 Mar 2014, 16:32

It was, Flightlevels numbers we're incorrect

You don't have to believe me off course, couldn't care less.

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