VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

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Inquirer
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by Inquirer »

FWIW- before I joined my current employer -a business to business company-, I worked for a retailer and there I was involved in project management to set up an online sales platform, thus dealing with ordinary consumers online.

The average reading time of our fairly limited 'terms and conditions' was well known and as low as just 15 seconds, just to show you how well most people read everything. I'm fairly sure MOL knows pretty well what the average reading time of his terms and conditions page is, for instance: maybe someone should ask him one day?

Somehow most consumers assume things to be fairly standard, but in case of ryanair, they aren't: you can call them 'tricks', or 'a unique business model', I don't care: the bottom line is it are very much part of their method to generate profit, so pretending it's just a pittyful side-effect of othermen's neglect is a fair bit of hypocrisy, sean: in real, ryanair loves it when you are distracted, confused, made an error or unwillingly violating their rules because that's when they start to make good money of you, and to make sure they make enough money they have built in as much checks as they somehow can to check, re-check and double or even tripple check you.

Pretending otherwise is taking quite a few of us here for complete idiots: certain people like myself happen to be able to dissect business models fairly well, you know, because it happened to be my job, once.
Last edited by Inquirer on 26 Sep 2013, 16:02, edited 1 time in total.

sean1982
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by sean1982 »

I has nothing to do with the terms and contitions on the website or at the bottom of the ticket. I say again: for the 60th time .... You get up to three emails not longer then 1 page that are idiot proof ... there are even PICTOGRAMS for when you can't read ... I seriously wish I could just copy and paste that email here.

Probably 96% of all passengers don't have any problems at the airport .... from personal experience ... in 1 week flying (20 sectors) I usually see 1 or 2 bags that were stopped at the gate. If you think that is the "majority" of our passengers ... then you have a serious problem. I suggest you take another good look at the business model you claim to know so well.

Futhermore, I can understand why you don't like a certain company, after all everybody has it's own personal preferences ... what I don't understand is the need to publicly slag off that company and it's employees on the internet, that's just .... sad

Inquirer
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by Inquirer »

sean1982 wrote: You get up to three emails not longer then 1 page that are idiot proof ... there are even PICTOGRAMS for when you can't read ... I seriously wish I could just copy and paste that email here.
As I said: some people don't read those and the fact they don't is in full part of the core of the business plan of your employer: what's so hard to admit in that, sean?

If you really want to make your processes idiot proof, just send them the boarding pass straight away, iso telling them numerous times how to print it themselves.
sean1982 wrote:Futhermore, I can understand why you don't like a certain company, after all everybody has it's own personal preferences ... what I don't understand is the need to publicly slag off that company and it's employees on the internet, that's just .... sad
I am not slagging of any employees, nor any company.
People at ryanair are hardworking professionals and you'll never hear me say otherwise.
Please stop putting an appreciation on me, or quote where I allegedly did sag you off, if you have indication of the contrary and I will immediately appologize for whatever I'd have written there.

What I admit doing however is accurately pointing out how also the many unpleasant side-effects of ryanair are really ment to work the way they do, something which you happen to take offence in because admittedly it's not a very ethical way to making money, even though it is perfectly okay to do so from a business point of view.

I can fully understand that it doesn't make you feel comfortable, but please don't take that out to others, just because you want to find comfort in all the excuses you are provided with and made to believe: they aren't valid, believe me. ;)

sean1982
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by sean1982 »

Well, then we have to agree to disagree ... because it's not true. I have not made to believe anything ... I can very clearly think for myself

As a closing note, for all of you who don't fly FR and feel you have to attack the company at every possible occasion. Even when you don't fly Ryanair they are a benefit to you. FR and EZY have both revolutionized air travel in Europe and the only reason you can get onto a BruAir or a LH flight for 169EUR is because of them. If there would not be any LCC's their prices would still be extortionate and they would still rip you off as they did for years.

You can call it unethical for an airline to charge for not following rules .... question is if it is more unethical to charge three times the fare for a snack and a coffee for free.

cnc
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by cnc »

oh please don't try to give it such a twist...
you can thank all of us for paying so much taxes to keep your company flying?

Squelsh
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by Squelsh »

Do agree with Sean on the fact that a correct(ly as possible) manifest is something to respect if you run a passenger airline. Will never forget after the crash of a Turkish in Schiphol some years ago it took several days before the company was able to release a correct passengers manifest, or at the least there was alot of questions and anomalies on the first one. People died that day, many lifes affected. No correct info.

If people start trading their tickets like in sjakamaka, and you don't care who goes on or off on your flights, can cause problems when things go wrong.

sean1982
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by sean1982 »

cnc wrote:oh please don't try to give it such a twist...
you can thank all of us for paying so much taxes to keep your company flying?
Do you live in Wallonia? Otherwise you didn't spend a single cent. Im not giving it a twist ... This is a fact. Not that I care 1 bit for your opinion. Once you have something usefull to contribute you can come back. I have also spend enough tax money on sabena, NMBS, Brussels airlines etc.... All sorts of services I never use.

regi
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by regi »

During the interview, Ostend was a small topic.
Right question would have been:
"How much credibility is there to support Ryanair with public and private incentives to come again to Ostend, when they have been there before and left very quickly - despite all possible support?"

Or to put it more nicely / less aggressive:
"How much more support would you require to come back to Ostend?"

But I can understand that it wringes against a manager's genes to acknowledge that Ryanair made a mistake, based on a wrong business model. Keep in mind that it is a company that should make profit, and that is watched closely by its shareholders. Managers who have to guarrantee the profit cannot say publicly that they screwed up in the past.

cnc
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by cnc »

sean1982 wrote:
cnc wrote:oh please don't try to give it such a twist...
you can thank all of us for paying so much taxes to keep your company flying?
Do you live in Wallonia? Otherwise you didn't spend a single cent. Im not giving it a twist ... This is a fact. Not that I care 1 bit for your opinion. Once you have something usefull to contribute you can come back. I have also spend enough tax money on sabena, NMBS, Brussels airlines etc.... All sorts of services I never use.
good to know wallonia makes more money then they spent now!
atleast they give thousands of jobs in return.
seems like you can't handle any comments on FR heh? attacking everyone who's not praising it down on their knees.
MOL'd better spank you hard because you're acting like a little bitch.

sean1982
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by sean1982 »

very mature .... :roll: if you don't like the message, shoot the messenger heh? :D

So prove me wrong with a comparison of air fares from 30 years ago and now keeping inflation in mind ... good luck ;)

cnc
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by cnc »

sean1982 wrote:very mature .... :roll: if you don't like the message, shoot the messenger heh? :D

So prove me wrong with a comparison of air fares from 30 years ago and now keeping inflation in mind ... good luck ;)
first of all i don't care about the message, i don't like the messenger :mrgreen:
we should thank WN for introducing low cost no? we should also thank hitler as he gave aviation a great boost in the years before WW2...
i would never defend my employer's negative points as much as you do but then again i'm not blind enough to ingore it's flaws

sean1982
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by sean1982 »

I never said there aren't any flaws ... I do not however like blatant lies ... once again .. if you have nothing to contribute but some personal insults, I suggest you go elsewhere where they do appreciate that.

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9vsmu
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by 9vsmu »

Agree, but if that business model is "rip off clients through rules", the rules are questionnable.

If memory serves well, other airlines also used the same "tricks". People Express advertised with one way faires. There was a charge for bags and food.

Citybird, same thing (one ways), and only limited number of seats at this price.

In these two cases, pax ended up paying much more as published.

regi
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by regi »

OK, I repeat the remark in the interview about Ostend - and the lack of the obvious question:
"Credibility to give incentives if that company has been here and disappeared again ( without the fault of an airport operator, changed procedures, contract breaches )"

Seems that we stroll away too easely from the subject "Interview" and not about the tricks.

teddybAIR
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by teddybAIR »

Probably not a coïncidence, but I came across this article in my Linkedin feed. It is an article published by a customer centricity consultant who comments on the frustrations generated by RYR's policies. He quotes O'Leary when saying things such as:
“We think they should pay 60 Euros for being so stupid.” (regarding the boarding pass fee)

“You're not getting a refund so **** off. We don't want to hear your sob stories. What part of 'no refund' don't you understand?” (when customers complain and demand a refund)

“Anyone who thinks Ryanair flights are some sort of bastion of sanctity where you can contemplate your navel is wrong. We already bombard you with as many in-flight announcements and trolleys as we can. Anyone who looks like sleeping, we wake them up to sell them things." (regarding the in-flight experience)
However, he also indicates:
To be fair, no one is required to fly on Ryanair. If you do, you realize that in order to have cheap flights you must sacrifice some of the extras. In order to keep costs low after all, they have to cut somewhere.
And that is how the coockie crumbles: unless enough passangers actually start acting with their feet, why should Ryanair question their practices? In one of the worlds' most competitive industries, they have succeeded to structurally grow in one of the industry leaders in terms of volume.

My conclusion is somewhere between sean's and that of the rest of the forum members: yes, I condemn some of the practices of Ryanair, that's probably the single most reason why to date I have not yet flown them. But on the other hand: their business model is widely known and expecting anithing that even remotely smells like customer service is simply naïve. Yet, every person makes his individual choice whether he wants to give up some of his freedoms to fly at the lowest possible fares.

convair
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by convair »

teddybAIR wrote:
My conclusion is somewhere between sean's and that of the rest of the forum members: yes, I condemn some of the practices of Ryanair,............. But on the other hand: their business model is widely known and expecting anything that even remotely smells like customer service is simply naïve. Yet, every person makes his individual choice whether he wants to give up some of his freedoms to fly at the lowest possible fares.
I've kept away from this topic as the posts from both "sides" are getting more and more boring and childish imho.

I share the conclusion of "teddybAIR" hereabove.

sean1982
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by sean1982 »

teddybAIR wrote: And that is how the coockie crumbles: unless enough passangers actually start acting with their feet, why should Ryanair question their practices? In one of the worlds' most competitive industries, they have succeeded to structurally grow in one of the industry leaders in terms of volume.
True, I have my personal opinion about MoL. He's good with numbers and .... Numbers :/ Allthough a lot of our passengers are happy (believe it or not), there is always room for improvement. Im glad the shareholders have put their foot down and forced the company to try and improve the public opinion about it. I sincerely hope (and I think I speak for most crew in this matter) they hold true to their word.

airazurxtror
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by airazurxtror »

teddybAIR wrote: to date I have not yet flown them.
... which does not prevent you from having a forceful opinion about them ! :lol:
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.

FlightMate
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by FlightMate »

I've never flown with ryanair, and probably never will (I suppose it's because I've got the benefit of cheap tickets on other airlines, working in the industry), but the bottom line is: if people were really tricked, as some claim, they wouldn't be flying with ryanair anymore.
Sure, I believe some passengers will get ripped off because of lost tickets, overweight luggages... but same things happen with 'mainstream' airlines.

Ryanair attracts new pax, but also retains their fidelity. Hell, even my in-laws, who (to say it nicely) are not geeks, have flown with ryanair without any problems.

teddybAIR
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by teddybAIR »

airazurxtror wrote:
teddybAIR wrote: to date I have not yet flown them.
... which does not prevent you from having a forceful opinion about them ! :lol:
So?

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