VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

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Passenger
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VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by Passenger »

VTM - Flemish main commercial tv station - is focussing on Ryanair's sales policy in this weeks episod of Telefacts. VTM: "...To Rome or Barcelona for 15 Euro. Ryanair is the king of cheap tickets, but if you don't watch out, you will loose a lot more. No boarding pass, 1 kg too much, and you will pay a lot more. One of their former employees explains how it works, and our reporter flew to Dublin to ask why...".

VTM Telefacts, Tuesday 24 September 2013, 21h45:
"De dure trucs van goedkoop vliegen" ("the expensive tricks of flying cheap")

short preview:
http://vtm.be/telefacts/ryanair-de-dure ... -vliegen-0

sean1982
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by sean1982 »

There are no "tricks" .... Just people not following the rules (which you receive by separate email up to 3!!! times) If you do that, you dont pay a cent extra on your fare. Why people always want the rules to be bend to their individual liking is beyond me.

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cathay belgium
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by cathay belgium »

It will just be another ryanair bashing tv programme, it will be again no info but people will talk about it!
I totally agree by you sean!
Maybe VTM can make a show and learn the people to read the facts,compare and decide..
Ryanair never used tricks, they set their rules and their fares, people who don't follow their rules are not tricked just stupid IMO... It's all very clear...
CXB
After 50 ryanairflights I never felt tricked ..!
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781
New types planned : E140-E190E2

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Airbus330lover
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by Airbus330lover »

cathay belgium wrote:It will just be another ryanair bashing tv programme, it will be again no info but people will talk about it!
I totally agree by you sean!
Maybe VTM can make a show and learn the people to read the facts,compare and decide..
Ryanair never used tricks, they set their rules and their fares, people who don't follow their rules are not tricked just stupid IMO... It's all very clear...
CXB
After 50 ryanairflights I never felt tricked ..!
Same for me. If you know the rules, no problem.
Once a delay problem with FR ..... problem pending in law. But fot the ticketing and price, always OK

Inquirer
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by Inquirer »

I think there's something to say on both points of view: they may not be 'tricks' as such, but the oddities very much are part of the business concept and are explicitly made the way they are so as to push a certain number of ill informed or easily distracted people into paying the extra's, many of whom did not intend to do so should they have a more standardised alternative available to them.

If everybody would be following the rules, Sean, Ryanair would either change the basic fares upward, or more likely revise their rules so as to make sure a sufficiently large portion of their customers is again found to be not following them, because they very much count on these kind of revenues.

A nice example is the online check-in: Ryanair must be about the only airline who's blocking online check-in several hours before departure already to force those who only think about checking in just a few hours before they leave to use the most labour intense method at the airport and have them pay the corresponding fee. There's really no reason whatsoever not to have online check in available up to the moment the counters close.

IMHO, it's high time for the EU to set comparable 'rules' for all EU airlines, as this would streamline the whole business, force businesses like Ryanair to adapt their fare policy and create an easily comparable tariff structure for ordinary customers. I know others don't like to hear me use the word as it does put you in a certain supporter's fiels, but a level playing field IS in the interest of consumers, which we all are, in the end: just look at the huge benefits we all reap in the energy and telecommunication sector, notably! Similar initiatives are needed in aviation too to bring the sector back to an understandable and easily comparable thing again.

BRU
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by BRU »

Think Inquirer is right with his comment and solution would be more common rules for all. Pls lets also not forget that most people on the forum know something about aviation. That is not the case for a very large part of the public.

So yes, Ryanair uses "tricks", as do so many other companies in life. Does not mean they are cheating, but they are playing it "smart" one could say. Or "tricky"...

fcw
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by fcw »

Inquirer wrote:
A nice example is the online check-in: Ryanair must be about the only airline who's blocking online check-in several hours before departure already to force those who only think about checking in just a few hours before they leave to use the most labour intense method at the airport and have them pay the corresponding fee. There's really no reason whatsoever not to have online check in available up to the moment the counters close.
Your "nice" example is worthless Inquirer. ALL airlines have online (and airport) check-in windows!
eg
BruAir: -24hrs till -1hr
Ezy: -1 month till -2hrs
Fr: -15 days till -4hrs (-2hrs to reprint your boarding pass if you lost it)
If we take BruAir, you will be pleased by the -1hr but the 24hrs are very annoying to me, as I will have to look for a printer and internet access in that little time band.

fcw
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by fcw »

Inquirer wrote:IMHO, it's high time for the EU to set comparable 'rules' for all EU airlines, as this would streamline the whole business, force businesses like Ryanair to adapt their fare policy and create an easily comparable tariff structure for ordinary customers. I know others don't like to hear me use the word as it does put you in a certain supporter's fiels, but a level playing field IS in the interest of consumers, which we all are, in the end: just look at the huge benefits we all reap in the energy and telecommunication sector, notably! Similar initiatives are needed in aviation too to bring the sector back to an understandable and easily comparable thing again.
These rules DO exist. Several airlines (amongst them Fr AND BruAir) were caught and convicted by the EU.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-09-238_en.htm
Last edited by fcw on 22 Sep 2013, 15:03, edited 1 time in total.

cnc
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by cnc »

sean1982 wrote:There are no "tricks" .... Just people not following the rules (which you receive by separate email up to 3!!! times) If you do that, you dont pay a cent extra on your fare. Why people always want the rules to be bend to their individual liking is beyond me.
true but some of those rules... a friend of mine lost his boardingpass which he printed at home in BCN so he went to the FR desk and had to pay 70 euro so they would print a copy for him

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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Looking on from a distance (commercial air transport never was my cup of tea and I hope it will never be):

Ryanair have neatly played upon the "new mentality of particular buyers". By which I mean: fifty or a hundred years ago, one bought from the traditional house of confidence. My mother bought bread from baker Dupont, why should I ever consider baker Janssens? And if your father drove a Mercedes or a Volvo or whatever, he would do so for the rest of his days, and likely yourself would, too. Officially, we had a free market, but in daily life, nobody questioned existing offers and offerers. For many services and commodities, there was only a single source anyway. And yes, if one took a plane, one took Sabena, as a Belgian.

Then came the 1960's, communications began to open, and the markets soon followed suit. People realised there was a wide market, and publications like "Test Aankoop / Test Achats / Best Buy" created a new spirit of "finding the best buy" whenever passing money. I remember well how my late father fulminated against that mentality!

Ryanair have (in my observation, which is perhaps not very realistic) developed great ways of seeming to offer the best buy. They know quite well that most people are too stupid and/or too lazy to read and interpret the fine print, plus that they do have the extra money, only they thought to be clever; and it seems obvious to me that this is indeed part of the FR business model. Can't blame them, honestly.
Last edited by jan_olieslagers on 22 Sep 2013, 16:33, edited 1 time in total.

Inquirer
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by Inquirer »

fcw wrote:
Inquirer wrote:
A nice example is the online check-in: Ryanair must be about the only airline who's blocking online check-in several hours before departure already to force those who only think about checking in just a few hours before they leave to use the most labour intense method at the airport and have them pay the corresponding fee. There's really no reason whatsoever not to have online check in available up to the moment the counters close.
Your "nice" example is worthless Inquirer. ALL airlines have online (and airport) check-in windows!
eg
BruAir: -24hrs till -1hr
Ezy: -1 month till -2hrs
Fr: -15 days till -4hrs (-2hrs to reprint your boarding pass if you lost it)
If we take BruAir, you will be pleased by the -1hr but the 24hrs are very annoying to me, as I will have to look for a printer and internet access in that little time band.
please calm down, fcw, because wording like 'worthless examples' are not at its place here.

As said, I don't want to attack anyone, just pointing out that some of the non-industry standard rules of ryanair are made the way they are to reap in extra revenues and that Sean's pragmatic approach to ''just follow them, and things are okay' is in fact incorrect as the rules are the way they are and will be modified whenever needed to get the required revenues in from them.

It would be good if a standardised check in window would be implemented by the EC as checking in must be considered a basic service, for which there should not be any surcharge if done yourself, BTW, as that's a bit like an online bank charging you to use their website, IMHO.

Inquirer
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by Inquirer »

cnc wrote:
sean1982 wrote:There are no "tricks" .... Just people not following the rules (which you receive by separate email up to 3!!! times) If you do that, you dont pay a cent extra on your fare. Why people always want the rules to be bend to their individual liking is beyond me.
true but some of those rules... a friend of mine lost his boardingpass which he printed at home in BCN so he went to the FR desk and had to pay 70 euro so they would print a copy for him
Ryanair blocks not just the online check in already 4 hours before departure, but also prevents passengers from printing their boarding pass 2 hours before departure and they can do that because they keep the boarding pass on their server, ISO sending out a PDF which can be reprinted as many times as liked, whenever needed, so it's not inconceivable that a certain number of their passengers self-check in correctly already a few days ahead of their flight, yet keep their boarding pass on server till the very end (for instance in order not to lose it), only to find out they can't print it any longer. :(

It's practices like these which should be forbidden by the EC, because they have nothing to do with extra products like meals, drinks or huge numbers of luggages for which a supplementary fee is justified and they are certainly not the fault of customers bending the rules, but rather the opposite, I'd say.

Some standardisation and consumer protection rules are urgently needed for the sake of us all, consumers, because we shouldn't be spending half our life reading through pages and pages of small print while taking notes and drawing schematics of certain time frames opening and closing again, especially not if those may or may not change with each purchase we make.

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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by sean1982 »

Sorry Inquirer, but that is simply not true ... there is a "reprint boarding pass" option on the website where you can reprint your boarding pass at all times! And btw guys there is no "fine print" as I said before, you get 3!! emails explaining you VERY DETAILED what you have to do ... if you then still fail to follow the rules ... well, what can I say :?

Passenger
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by Passenger »

Every airline indeed has rules, mainly made to guarantee smooth operations. With Ryanair however, the rules are made to generate more income. When these fees are extremely high compared to their real cost, the rules become tricks (example: 70 Euro to print a boarding pass!).

I remember a talk show about consumer rights on VRT Flemish tv. All guests used the free VRT parking, and when they entered the VRT building, the housekeeper asked them to quickly sign a form: “oh, that’s just if something is stolen from your car, VRT is not responsible” they were told. All of them signed. The form was shown during the consumer program: they’ve all signed that VRT was allowed to sell their car if it was not collected within one hour after entering the parking.

sean1982
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by sean1982 »

well if people want to be stupid who's going to stop them :-/

Passenger
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by Passenger »

This is the booklet people are supposed to read, understand and memorize:
http://www.ryanair.com/nl-be/reisvoorwaarden

I've tried to copy/paste the text here, but it's not allowed: "...Your message contains 107,494 characters. The maximum number of allowed characters is 60,000..."

convair
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by convair »

If (big IF!) the story about the 70 € for printing a boarding pass is true, this is not a trick, this is EXTORTION, pure and simple! How can anyone even start to think about trying to justify this?

sean1982
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by sean1982 »

Passenger wrote:This is the booklet people are supposed to read, understand and memorize:
http://www.ryanair.com/nl-be/reisvoorwaarden

I've tried to copy/paste the text here, but it's not allowed: "...Your message contains 107,494 characters. The maximum number of allowed characters is 60,000..."
No, you don't need to remember this, as I allready said 2 times now, you get 3 emails with the subject "avoid additional fees"! It even has pictures for people who can't read. If you then STILL fail not to follow these few simple recommendations, that says a lot about that person!

sean1982
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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by sean1982 »

And for what it's worth ... Brussels Airlines terms and conditions are just a long as they are legal documents where the airlines explain the rights and duties the pax has.

As usual passenger, you're trying to polarize the discussion and twist facts to try and get FR in a bad light. Mature ... :-/

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Re: VTM Telefacts 24th Sept: "Ryanair's tricks"

Post by epsilon »

Ryanair blocks not just the online check in already 4 hours before departure, but also prevents passengers from printing their boarding pass 2 hours before departure and they can do that because they keep the boarding pass on their server, ISO sending out a PDF which can be reprinted as many times as liked, whenever needed, so it's not inconceivable that a certain number of their passengers self-check in correctly already a few days ahead of their flight, yet keep their boarding pass on server till the very end (for instance in order not to lose it), only to find out they can't print it any longer.
That is why I use the "Print to PDF" function in Chrome everytime I check-in on the Ryanair website. I put the PDF on my desktop or a USB stick I take with me until after the traveldate and then I can print it as many times as I like until the gate closes!

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