Jet Airways out of Brussels

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Atlantis
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by Atlantis » 07 Jun 2013, 20:10

Passenger wrote:Schiphol Airport calls victory:

http://www.telegraaf.nl/dft/bedrijven/a ... dia__.html

In brief: AMS will be the European hub for Jet Airways flights between India, Europe and the U.S., and there will be dozens of extra flights from Indian cities to AMS.

(edited : I've forgotten "for Jet Airways")
My fear of acouple of years ago on this forum will become true it seems. This will be a huge gap and will not be filled in only a few months.
On the North-America routes I don't see big problems in the near future. I see United, SN and Air Canada (maybe Transat) growing on this. Is good news for SN on those routes.

Of course the routes to India will disappear and LH will not give it to BRU or help SN. They are protecting their own market. I also don't see an other Indian operator coming to BRU.

At the end of this year there will be again a trade mission with Prince Filip to India. I don't know if they will discuss this or maybe other opportunities for the near future, 2 to 3 years.

For BRU it is very bad news with losses in income and the moce of a European hub to a competitor.

LJ
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by LJ » 07 Jun 2013, 20:57

crlhub wrote:(in cargo we are doing much better)
Though we see a few new flights, cargo is still bleeding. If I'm not mistaken we're down to 1 weekly KE cargo flight (used to be more), SV cargo doesn't use BRU as often as it used to and CX cargo is gone. The only bright spot is DHL, but they don't have any capacity left at Leipzig, thus growing BRU is thier only option.
crlhub wrote:even if we have solid positive advantages like: the UE,NATO and other international bodies,
Yet they don't create traffic on a global basis. NATO doesn't contain India, China or Brazil, only US and Canada.
crlhub wrote: Very sad to see SN not present in three BRIC markets like China,India and Brazil.Three countries with an incredible population and still a very big export/tourism potential for the decades to come.
BRU does have Hainan, which is the link to China. That makes 2 out of 4 BRIC countries served from BRU.
crlhub wrote:It took too much time after the end of Sabena to retart a new intercontinental network(like Swiss did).12 years after Sabena we are still below the traffic numbers of 2001.
Do you want a profitable SN or a big SN? Remeber that the SN from 12 years ago was loss making and dying. The SN of today is less loss making (and hopefully soon profitable) and seems to be doing OK imgae wise.

Air Key West
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by Air Key West » 07 Jun 2013, 22:54

LJ wrote:Do you want a profitable SN or a big SN?
Actually, we want/need both. So far, the African routes have kept b.air afloat. As I once wrote on luchtzak : 4 aircraft keep 40 aircraft flying. Generally speaking, we see that intercontinental flights are the ones that make money (I don't know why, but that seems to be an established fact now). So, b.air needs to grow in markets with still a reasonable yield. North America is low yield, but LH lets (or encourages) b.air to fly to North America as there still is a potential for these flights to feed the African network. Africa is what b.air does best, so there is a logic to this approach. However, a day will come where yields to Africa will go down because of increased competition, not only from AF (KL or BA), but EK, EY, QR, TK and ET.
In addition, outgoing KLM boss Peter Hartman declared that Africa will become the next growth market for airlines and that KLM always believed in Africa's potential since it invested in Kenya Airways in 1995. (this is a short summary of :
http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nl-NL/Ar ... groeimarkt
Reading between the lines, this probably means KL will continue to develop its African network, too.

In other words, b.air needs to diversify (and quickly)
crlhub wrote:Very sad to see SN not present in three BRIC markets like China,India and Brazil
I agree. Although I don't see much potential for b.air to India, except perhaps :
b720 wrote:5xweek daily high season to BOM, with a deal with Antwerp diamond couriers for diamond shipments
As to China, Chinese airlines are getting mature with a good safety record in the last ten years and service getting increasingly better. These airlines will be able to offer the lowest fares and might even, pricewise, become a threat to the 3G (three main Gulf carriers). So, I wouldn't bet too much on China to make money.

Leaves us with Brazil. I won't repeat what I wrote already a couple of times on luchtzak about Brazil (but will not mind repeating it if a member asks me to). TAM leaving Star Alliance. Nobody knowing what's going to happen with TAP. Aerolineas Argentinas joining Skyteam. Fortunately, Star has Avianca Taca and Copa, but that's more Central America (perhaps with Avianca as a gateway to Andean countries), but none of these airlines fly to BRU.

In summary : b.air needs to diversify (and faster than adding one long-haul aircraft per year to its network).
In favor of quality air travel.

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 08 Jun 2013, 00:28

A bad hit for Brussels Airport... Wasn't 9W satisfied about the service provided? What about their BRU ops profitabilty? Which arguments in favor of AMS vs BRU?
Regarding brussels airlines, a loss a connecting PAX for sure (btw, any idea about the figures/impact?)... but also a source of new opportunities esp. in USA/Canada bur why not to DEL or BOM?

Inquirer
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by Inquirer » 08 Jun 2013, 00:55

brusselsairlinesfan wrote:A bad hit for Brussels Airport...
I guess the single worst hit will be for their handler at BRU as Jetairways must mean a lot of productivity.
Who's handling them? is it still Swissport?
brusselsairlinesfan wrote:also a source of new opportunities esp. in USA/Canada bur why not to DEL or BOM?
Because maybe not that many people are boarding the different Jetairways planes to India in BRU?
Are there any figures available about their local influx at Belgium, per destination?
And how much of those passengers really terminate at BOM or DEL, iso having a connection elsewhere?
Whatever this second figure is, it's a good estimate of what a Belgian airline can count on as O/D traffic.
As many others above, I too doubt it will be enough to support an Indian route with?

air belgium
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by air belgium » 08 Jun 2013, 08:29

Maybe a chance for a new belgian company to start flights from Brussels to India. (Mumbai, Delhi, Madras etc)
You never know.

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quixoticguide
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by quixoticguide » 08 Jun 2013, 10:25

air belgium wrote:Maybe a chance for a new belgian company to start flights from Brussels to India. (Mumbai, Delhi, Madras etc)
You never know.
Sure keep dreaming
Visit my flights on: http://www.quixoticguide.com

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cathay belgium
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by cathay belgium » 08 Jun 2013, 10:39

Hi,

Indeed guess not any chance..
Now... guess if there will be connections to India it will be Quatar,Etihad and maybe Emirates who will fill the gap.. if not Turkish..
Sad.. but true...
Altough a touchdown of Air India would be nice but very unlikely... :)

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cnc
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by cnc » 08 Jun 2013, 11:30

Inquirer wrote: I guess the single worst hit will be for their handler at BRU as Jetairways must mean a lot of productivity.
Who's handling them? is it still Swissport?
yes swissport.
cathay belgium wrote: Altough a touchdown of Air India would be nice but very unlikely... :)
not so unlikely as you might think but time will tell

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RoMax
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by RoMax » 08 Jun 2013, 11:34

cnc wrote:
Inquirer wrote: I guess the single worst hit will be for their handler at BRU as Jetairways must mean a lot of productivity.
Who's handling them? is it still Swissport?
yes swissport.
So they loose two of their biggest clients in one year (Jet and JAF) and they had a massive strike getting everyone else angry as well...

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tolipanebas
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by tolipanebas » 08 Jun 2013, 11:46

FWIW- SN seeks for over €4M in financial compensations from Swissport over the strike....
A huge amount, but just figure how tens of thousand of pieces of luggage had to be home delivered to passengers all over Europe, the USA and Africa and how for almost a week their load factor took a noticable hit as high yielding last minute passengers avoided to book SN.
LH/LX -which were forced to cancel all of their flights since none of their long haul connecting passengers could take any luggage- are not amused either and are also going to hand Swissport a multi million euro bill.
Last edited by tolipanebas on 08 Jun 2013, 11:47, edited 1 time in total.

cnc
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by cnc » 08 Jun 2013, 11:47

RoMax wrote:
cnc wrote:
Inquirer wrote: I guess the single worst hit will be for their handler at BRU as Jetairways must mean a lot of productivity.
Who's handling them? is it still Swissport?
yes swissport.
So they loose two of their biggest clients in one year (Jet and JAF) and they had a massive strike getting everyone else angry as well...
yes but they got UA.
anyway now they can go on strike because there's not enough work and they fall back to 75% months :roll:

nordikcam
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by nordikcam » 08 Jun 2013, 21:52

not so unlikely as you might think but time will tell
What do we have to read about Air India between those words ? Thx
Last edited by sn26567 on 08 Jun 2013, 23:41, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected BBCode

cnc
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by cnc » 08 Jun 2013, 22:07

nordikcam wrote:not so unlikely as you might think but time will tell
What do we have to read about Air India between those words ? Thx
nothing special, the future is open and AI is unstable so it could go both ways but they are looking at new destinations in europe so BRU as star hub and no competition from 9W... who knows :)
Last edited by sn26567 on 08 Jun 2013, 23:42, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected BBCode

LJ
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by LJ » 08 Jun 2013, 22:34

Air Key West wrote:Africa is what b.air does best, so there is a logic to this approach. However, a day will come where yields to Africa will go down because of increased competition, not only from AF (KL or BA), but EK, EY, QR, TK and ET.
Thus it should focus on this market. Yields to Brazil, India and China are alos not great and even worse Brazil and China seem to be cooling down. Do you really want to deploy resources to a such market whilst you quote the KLM CEO saying that Africa is the next growth market? Defend your current share and not waste resources in the Indian market or another Europe - Shanghai/Beijing connection. I would guess that LH doesn't need another LX, it needs an ailrine which is a niche player, in this case for Africa.

Moreover, in order to support flights you need the O&D (hence why KL never invested in India). Yet, Belgium is not the gateway to Europe for India (UK), China (Germany and The Netherlands) and Brazil (Portugal and France). Thus you end up going after low yield connecting traffic.
brusselsairlinesfan wrote:A bad hit for Brussels Airport... Wasn't 9W satisfied about the service provided? What about their BRU ops profitabilty? Which arguments in favor of AMS vs BRU?
9W will leave if their new future minority owner (EY) says so (just like SN does what LH tells them to do). EY leans a lot towards Skyteam, thus a move to AMS wouldn't be so strange (if it happens as there hasn't been any formal confirmation from 9W nor is it visible in GDS, I reckon the AMS slot request will shed some light on what 9W will be doing at AMS). Finally, I reckon that the DL/AF/KL/AZ offer to become part ofd the joint venture is still on the table, something LH would never offered 9W.

sn-remember
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by sn-remember » 09 Jun 2013, 00:10

SN should focuse on AFI
Routes (all dailies with A332/333)
bru-acc-coo,bru-abj-lfw,bru-dkr-bjl,bru-cky-fna/rob,bru-dla-nsi,bru-fih,bru-ebb-nbo,bru-kgl-bjm,bru-fbm-lun(4)+bru-llw-lun(3)
Acc = TOP priority NOW since Virgin Suspends Accra From 23SEP (act quick)
NA dailies to jfk,ewr,iad,bos
Pek and sfo expected
Later : jnb and pvg
To study : nrt or hnd
Pass the word to lh/Sn mgt asap, it's good stuff
imho ;-)

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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by sn-remember » 09 Jun 2013, 00:18

They must act quick or they are dead ..

HighInTheSky
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by HighInTheSky » 09 Jun 2013, 09:55

sn-remember wrote:SN should focuse on AFI
Routes (all dailies with A332/333)
bru-acc-coo,bru-abj-lfw,bru-dkr-bjl,bru-cky-fna/rob,bru-dla-nsi,bru-fih,bru-ebb-nbo,bru-kgl-bjm,bru-fbm-lun(4)+bru-llw-lun(3)
Acc = TOP priority NOW since Virgin Suspends Accra From 23SEP (act quick)
NA dailies to jfk,ewr,iad,bos
Pek and sfo expected
Later : jnb and pvg
To study : nrt or hnd
Pass the word to lh/Sn mgt asap, it's good stuff
imho ;-)
Ehmz, ACC was tried before, and didn't work out.

About the rest: keep on dreaming... ;)

sean1982
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by sean1982 » 09 Jun 2013, 10:19

Even LH only flies a B738 to ACC

Unilitha2
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by Unilitha2 » 09 Jun 2013, 10:37

Any idea of the leave date ? As 9W keeps promoting flights from Brussels on the web (in addition to ad campaing "Win a car") so I guess it won't be before the end of the summer ?

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