Jet Airways out of Brussels

[RoMax]

Ey never were profitable.

EY is profitable since 2011, as was planned. Their profit margin is still rather low, but they do make a profit and their profit margin is growing month by month. As I said, they don't seem that big, but they created a huge and successful airline if you know they started in November 2003. They are not 'big', but they aren't weak either (they may be the weakest of the MEB3, but that's still stronger than many of the traditional airlines in Europe, the US and even some of the 'older' Asian carriers). When you would place EY's financial results of 2012 next to these of the big EU airline groups...EY is very strong. When you compare them with TK, EK and QR, they are still strong, but less strong indeed. Age is the biggest reason for that.

[sn-remember]

EY is profitable since 2011, as was planned. Their profit margin is still rather low, but they do make a profit and their profit margin is growing month by month. As I said, they don't seem that big, but they created a huge and successful airline if you know they started in November 2003. They are not 'big', but they aren't weak either (they may be the weakest of the MEB3, but that's still stronger than many of the traditional airlines in Europe, the US and even some of the 'older' Asian carriers). When you would place EY's financial results of 2012 next to these of the big EU airline groups...EY is very strong. When you compare them with TK, EK and QR, they are still strong, but less strong indeed. Age is the biggest reason for that.

Ok so they recently managed to break even.
Good point for them (and my fault)
But they are run by one of the richest owner on earth : the emirate of abudhabi.
Being additionally well managed should eventually produce profits.
I am not worried for them.

[BrightCedars]

As I wrote on a.net I think this is good news for BRU. 9W has stretched the B pier in the morning peak to the point where the airport had to accomodate the T gates in the A pier and for what? The promised 10-12 daily flights with 77W's are now 4 daily with 332s most of the time.

It would be better if SN's Africa fleet can park at the B pier to connect with Star Alliance traffic from around the world and US traffic. Also, 9W out will allow SN to make better money and eventually expand the North America market. As for India, if there's a need I'm sure there'll be a new operator, if not then let it be via FRA, MUC, or whoever's nearby alliance allegiance hub.

An SN A330 doing India runs 3 times a week to a city, 3-4 times to another doesn't seem that far fetched supported by LH's local infrastructure if deemed necessary. Then if that works you can always put a second one to gradually increase frequency, or redeploy the hardware to Africa or North America if India doesn't work.

Also, despite moving the scissor hub to AMS is one thing, it doesn't mean 9W themselves won't do what I described above O&D India-BRU, they know the market. Although EY might prefer that traffic to route via AUH.

[sean1982]

I can't see how losing so much traffic is a good thing for BRU at all.

As for all these day dreams, SN cannot even efficiently fly it's current schedule at the moment .... Let alone expand left, right and center. The traffic will be gone soon, the expansion will take years, so BRU loses out.

[b720]

agree that this is an opportunity for SN to grow into N.AMerica and maybe start BRU-BOM if JET leaves
the market completely; however I do agree that SN will fail (yet again) to take advantage of the void.
Lack of resources, vision? or both?

[Passenger]

As for all these day dreams, SN cannot even efficiently fly it's current schedule at the moment .... Let alone expand left, right and center. The traffic will be gone soon, the expansion will take years, so BRU loses out.

Normal reaction from someone working for the competition.

agree that this is an opportunity for SN to grow into N.AMerica and maybe start BRU-BOM if JET leaves
the market completely; however I do agree that SN will fail (yet again) to take advantage of the void.
Lack of resources, vision? or both?

Perhaps there is a third possibility? Example that Brussels Airlines knows the arr/dep statistics and the exact Jet Airways load factors, and that they've decided that it's far too risky to fly it with own aircraft without codesharing support.

[sean1982]

As for all these day dreams, SN cannot even efficiently fly it's current schedule at the moment .... Let alone expand left, right and center. The traffic will be gone soon, the expansion will take years, so BRU loses out.

Normal reaction from someone working for the competition.

agree that this is an opportunity for SN to grow into N.AMerica and maybe start BRU-BOM if JET leaves
the market completely; however I do agree that SN will fail (yet again) to take advantage of the void.
Lack of resources, vision? or both?

Perhaps there is a third possibility? Example that Brussels Airlines knows the arr/dep statistics and the exact Jet Airways load factors, and that they've decided that it's far too risky to fly it with own aircraft without codesharing support.

I think you live with your head in the clouds, seriously What does this have to do with competition? Last time I checked, FR didn't have any long haul

[MD-11forever]

As for all these day dreams, SN cannot even efficiently fly it's current schedule at the moment .... Let alone expand left, right and center. The traffic will be gone soon, the expansion will take years, so BRU loses out.

Normal reaction from someone working for the competition.

In my humble opinion, I don't really see how Ryanair is competition for SN in the long haul sector (and what this has to do with this topic).
But to come back to topic, I have to agree with Sean: If Jet leaves BRU, traffic at BRU will decrease substantially (after all it are still 4 flights, not only 4 flights). And SN will never start flights to India in the near and somewhat further future, first of all due to lack of equipment, and secondly maybe rightfully so as SN has little to gain from sending its own metal to India and should focus on other places first.

[convair]

As for all these day dreams, SN cannot even efficiently fly it's current schedule at the moment .... Let alone expand left, right and center. The traffic will be gone soon, the expansion will take years, so BRU loses out.

Normal reaction from someone working for the competition.

agree that this is an opportunity for SN to grow into N.AMerica and maybe start BRU-BOM if JET leaves
the market completely; however I do agree that SN will fail (yet again) to take advantage of the void.
Lack of resources, vision? or both?

Perhaps there is a third possibility? Example that Brussels Airlines knows the arr/dep statistics and the exact Jet Airways load factors, and that they've decided that it's far too risky to fly it with own aircraft without codesharing support.

I agree with Sean 1982 and with b720 on this one.

@ Passenger:
Now, if 9W leaves BRU and a BRU-BOM becomes "available" for others, why wouldn't SN seek a codesharing, e.g. with UA?

[OO-ITR]

I can't see how losing so much traffic Wis a good thing for BRU at all. 9

As for all these day dreams, SN cannot even efficiently fly it's current schedule at the moment .... Let alone expand left, right and center. The traffic will be gone soon, the expansion will take years, so BRU loses out.

I also agree that it will be a setback for BRU. But it might be better to have a more reliable partner for BRU than 9W. After rumours of moving their hub to MXP, AMS, MUC, AUH and back to AMS, one can wonder how reliable 9W is for BRU.

Let's hope that SN is preparing to take over (part) of the 9W routes. But I think they already are since SN and 9W are already working closely together. I'm sure there are talks between closed doors.

However I don't see SN taking over the BRU-India routes though...YYZ and EWR will be easier to take over I guess.

[sean1982]

Hope so!! Question is .... can they get the equipment fast enough to jump in the hole 9W left (will leave) behind?

[OO-ITR]

Hope so!! Question is .... can they get the equipment fast enough to jump in the hole 9W left (will leave) behind?

I think that is the biggest challenge. Any leftover A330s from other carriers?

[cnc]

bad news for BRU idd!
and about SN taking over those routes... even if they get the a/c's from LH do they have enough money to start 4 or 5 new longhaul routes? new routes don't come cheap you know

[sn26567]

Question is .... can they get the equipment fast enough to jump in the hole 9W will leave behind?

Fast enough is the important part of the sentence. And apparently, there is a lot of time left.

The spokesman of Jet Airways in Belgium Bernard Guisset says that "No decision has been taken," and he emphasizes that the Etihad shareholding agreement in Jet Airways has not yet been approved by the Indian authorities, although the companies have agreed and intend to work together.

What about Brussels Airport, once the participation is approved? "Changes, no doubt, but the abandonment of the Belgian market is unlikely", says Guisset. Nevertheless, in the short term, there will be no change. "The move to a hub takes a long time, there are lots of business to address issues," Bernard Guisset added.

[tolipanebas]

I also agree that it will be a setback for BRU. But it might be better to have a more reliable partner for BRU than 9W. After rumours of moving their hub to MXP, AMS, MUC, AUH and back to AMS, one can wonder how reliable 9W is for BRU.

As reliable as an ailing non-home based operator can be, which is why BRU shouldn't focus too much on them any longer, but put all of their attention on SN, which they are finally doing now, BTW.

Let's hope that SN is preparing to take over (part) of the 9W routes.

They are and they will, should the occasion arise.
Notably on the NY market, 9W pulling out from BRU will bring SN/UA in pole position to increase capacity and finally open that evening flight which will be beneficial to the overal performance of both A++ partners as it will give them a unique position of offering multiple daily frequencies to New York.

However I don't see SN taking over the BRU-India routes though.

All to many people are seriously overestimating the market between BRU and India.
9W does have a significant intake of pax in BRU alright, but it must be noted 3/4th of them are 'simply' heading across the Atlantic; there are really far just a few tens of Belgians getting onto the different daily 9W flights with final destination India, so if SN were to take over a single flight to say BOM after 9W were to move away from BRU, that would give them just 20 pax or so, the rest of the seats they'd need to fill with connecting pax and let the majority of those pax having to come from the US and Canada, which is going to be as good as impossible because those flights either aren't there (YYZ for instance) or lack sufficient spare capacity (JFK, IAD, ORD, etc) to seat over a few hundred of additional connecting pax.
India is a market better left to other partner airlines of the LH Group: no need for SN to waste capacity and money only to compete internally with say OS for instance, because that would be effectively what they'd be doing by going after for instance the YYZ/NYC-BRU-BOM market...

[sean1982]

Question is .... can they get the equipment fast enough to jump in the hole 9W will leave behind?

Fast enough is the important part of the sentence. And apparently, there is a lot of time left.

The spokesman of Jet Airways in Belgium Bernard Guisset says that "No decision has been taken," and he emphasizes that the Etihad shareholding agreement in Jet Airways has not yet been approved by the Indian authorities, although the companies have agreed and intend to work together.

What about Brussels Airport, once the participation is approved? "Changes, no doubt, but the abandonment of the Belgian market is unlikely", says Guisset. Nevertheless, in the short term, there will be no change. "The move to a hub takes a long time, there are lots of business to address issues," Bernard Guisset added.

Seems the contract are signed .... not that far away then :/
http://www.noordhollandsdagblad.nl/stad ... -en-Darwin

[sn-remember]

Hi Tolipanebs, always intersting to read you.
First nobody can rejoice.
Indian connectivity is an important feature nobody can seriously underrate, having 9w in bru was putting an added value to bru and bringing precious synergies to the sn operation.
However if 9W opts for Skyteam, I don't see the benefit SN or Star can retrieve. Eventually 9W who would probably have to ditch 10 yrs or so of precious investment.
Indeed, SN don't have the means to take the indian market over just now. There are specificities (location, connectivity,facilities) though that make the route potentially viable imo.
So what I could possibly see in the future is a star alliance codesharing/partnership multiodal operation. AI could be interested. After all bru can offer same or better than say mxp,muc or whatever routing previously implemented/discussed. But they have to put order in their strategy and operation first. And they are not yet tied up (maybe never) in the Star alliance.
Therefore, in the short term I see 2 players UA and AC that could consider taking over the indian routes. AC would operate yyz-bru-del while UA would run the ewr-bru-bom route. Both scisor crossing in bru.
I think it could be successfull. At a later stage we could imagine the indian scisor hub model developing to other star hubs like iah, iad or other indian destinations.

[Established02]

Seems the contract are signed ...

"It has now been decided that Jet Airways no longer flies to Brussels, but to Schiphol. However it is only two flights a week, as a stopover to the U.S. and Canada."

http://www.noordhollandsdagblad.nl/stad ... -en-Darwin

[RoMax]

Seems the contract are signed ...

"It has now been decided that Jet Airways no longer flies to Brussels, but to Schiphol. However it is only two flights a week, as a stopover to the U.S. and Canada."

http://www.noordhollandsdagblad.nl/stad ... -en-Darwin

Is it just me, or is that source not really trustworthy if they say something like that... 4 daily flights will be replaced by 2 flights/week...of course

[LJ]

Is it just me, or is that source not really trustworthy if they say something like that... 4 daily flights will be replaced by 2 flights/week...of course

Yet Darwin is flying 24 weekly according to the same article (which is actually 12 weekly)...

Anyway if they really move their hub, than this must be something which EY decided as 9W was initially only interested in a daily BOM/DEL-AMS-YYZ (at least that were the very reliable rumours)

What about Brussels Airport, once the participation is approved? "Changes, no doubt, but the abandonment of the Belgian market is unlikely", says Guisset. Nevertheless, in the short term, there will be no change. "The move to a hub takes a long time, there are lots of business to address issues," Bernard Guisset added.

.

What? They've visited AMS to look for a handler (and not for diversions). Moreover, what does it take to move if the majority of your pax are flying from India to the US/Canada? He's also forgetting that EY already has a lot to say at 9W because it has provided a loan which 9W needed (in addition to the sale elaseback of the LHR slots).

Notably on the NY market, 9W pulling out from BRU will bring SN/UA in pole position to increase capacity and finally open that evening flight which will be beneficial to the overal performance of both A++ partners as it will give them a unique position of offering multiple daily frequencies to New York.

Yet how high yielding are these pax? They're probably good to fill the empty seats for 9W, but it's probably not enough to make an additional flight work. Moreover, those ex-US will probably fly via AMS or another hub to their final destination (whaterver is the cheapest).