Jet Airways out of Brussels

[travellover]

See official statement of BRU on the matter ...

http://www.brusselsairport.be/en/mediaroom/news/65599/

Now it becomes also clear why there is some delays / waiting in the communication of Brussels Airlines.

I guess the Trans-Atlantic JV (Star Alliance) must have busy times in evaluating/re-evaluating on what to do and when
I am also sure that LH is looking into this and how they can recover as much pax as possible between Belgium and India ...

Danny

" Brussels Airport also expects that Star Alliance and other airlines will organise more flights to North America and, either direct or with stop-overs, to India."

If 9W disappears from BRU, maybe later AI * could launch a direct (788 ?) connection to BOM and or DEL to fil the gap.

[Jetter]

Sure. Of course. There is no firm proof that Jet Airways will stay. But first, this isn’t a court room where statements are only accepted when accompagnied by a firm proof on paper, to be judged as true by a judge.

There's a huge gap between firm proof and statements without any source, corrobaration or reference. That doesn't seems to much to ask when something is presented as fact:

A while ago I wrote already that Jet Airways will not leave the BRU tarmac that soon and today it is confirmed.

There are many reasons why the top of Jet Airways decided to stay at Brussels Airport. Jet Airways even confirmed that they will offer their seats till after Winter season 2016-2017!!!!

If this was 'official', why keep others guessing about the value of such statements instead of being a bit more specific about it?

[crew1990]

If 9w would leave Brussels my guess would be that this would happend.

India

Brussels could take over the Indian market operating a daily BRU-BOM-DEL-BRU it would make that both destination are kept daily using just 1 A330

or

Air India could start flying to Brussels from DEL and/or BOM maybe one of those destination being operated by Brussels Airlines

Of course both scenarios would include an agreement with both airlines.

Canada

Brussels Airlines could start a daily Toronto flight in agreement with Air Canada, eventually switching the destination, Air Canada flying to Toronto, Brussels Airlines to Montreal.

USA

Brussels Airlines could increase the number of flight to JFK but it seems more logical to me that United Airlines would use a bigger aircraft from Newark.

[teach]

Sure. Of course. There is no firm proof that Jet Airways will stay. But first, this isn’t a court room where statements are only accepted when accompagnied by a firm proof on paper, to be judged as true by a judge.

There's a huge gap between firm proof and statements without any source, corrobaration or reference. That doesn't seems to much to ask when something is presented as fact:

A while ago I wrote already that Jet Airways will not leave the BRU tarmac that soon and today it is confirmed.

There are many reasons why the top of Jet Airways decided to stay at Brussels Airport. Jet Airways even confirmed that they will offer their seats till after Winter season 2016-2017!!!!

If this was 'official', why keep others guessing about the value of such statements instead of being a bit more specific about it?

Seriously, you need to start backing off now. Enough is enough.

[Jetter]

Whey don't you answer my legit question instead of trying to 'teach' me a lesson? Have to admit, strong username to post content ratio...

[JOVAN]

[/quote]
Seriously, you need to start backing off now. Enough is enough.
[/quote]

It is an interesting and serious subject.
Everybody's opinion is welcome.

[travellover]

This 9W topic is an additional evidence that the leading global airlines alliances and their shareholders are shaping hubs.

[teach]

Whey don't you answer my legit question

What exactly are you trying to get an answer to from me? You ask about why HE wasn't 'more specific' about who told him this? I mean, he, AND the other member BOTH said the statement came directly from Jet Airways. Just exactly how much more specific do you want them to be??

instead of trying to 'teach' me a lesson? Have to admit, strong username to post content ratio...

Ah yes, the personal attack. When all else fails.

I'm trying to teach you a few valuable lessons on how to behave when you're new on a message board, since you started off in the worst possible way, but they all seem lost on you, you clearly think you know better. I'll just leave you to it then, and let you see how far you get with that attitude.

[KriVa]

Allow me to make a friendly suggestion: This topic was and is certainly worthy of a discussion. However, that discussion will have to be fed by arguments, not by a personal attack between members.
If you want to do that, take it up with each other over PMs, not here.

And by the way, @Jetter: some sources don't really appreciate it if/when they're made public. That doesn't mean the source can't provide good info, though.

[convair]

See official statement of BRU on the matter ...

http://www.brusselsairport.be/en/mediaroom/news/65599/

Now it becomes also clear why there is some delays / waiting in the communication of Brussels Airlines.

I guess the Trans-Atlantic JV (Star Alliance) must have busy times in evaluating/re-evaluating on what to do and when
I am also sure that LH is looking into this and how they can recover as much pax as possible between Belgium and India ...

Danny

" Brussels Airport also expects that Star Alliance and other airlines will organise more flights to North America and, either direct or with stop-overs, to India."

If 9W disappears from BRU, maybe later AI * could launch a direct (788 ?) connection to BOM and or DEL to fil the gap.

If the announcement made by 9W to its employees was, in fact, a message for BRU, the answer of BRU seems to be: "if you decide to go, we'll regret it but we will certainly look to replace you, possibly by your competitors' flghts to the same destinations, so as to make your move to AMS a bit less attractive".

[Conti764]

My best guess...

LH increasing capacity between BRU and FRA either by using bigger equipment or more flights to funnel some local Indian bound pax through their hub.

Maybe, a big maybe, AI starting a (daily?) flight between DEL and BRU, connecting the capitols of both countries and Europe.

The biggest developments for BRU I see transatlantic. Decoupling of YYZ and YUL, either both by AC or YUL by SN. Next thing an expansion BRU-NYC with an extra flight BRU-JFK and an upgrade on UA BRU-EWR (77W?)

[convair]

My best guess...

LH increasing capacity between BRU and FRA either by using bigger equipment or more flights to funnel some local Indian bound pax through their hub.

Maybe, a big maybe, AI starting a (daily?) flight between DEL and BRU, connecting the capitols of both countries and Europe.
.....

If I remember correctly, LH tried to increase its number of seats to India, with more frequencies or bigger planes, but was denied it, possibly because its reluctance to admit AI in the Star Alliance. Now that AI has joined *A, things might be different.

Still, the LH group should try and maximize the use of its other hubs like BRU, MUC, VIE, ZRH...

[lumumba]

My best guess...

LH increasing capacity between BRU and FRA either by using bigger equipment or more flights to funnel some local Indian bound pax through their hub.

Maybe, a big maybe, AI starting a (daily?) flight between DEL and BRU, connecting the capitols of both countries and Europe.

The biggest developments for BRU I see transatlantic. Decoupling of YYZ and YUL, either both by AC or YUL by SN. Next thing an expansion BRU-NYC with an extra flight BRU-JFK and an upgrade on UA BRU-EWR (77W?)

I think that Mumbai has a bigger potential than Delhi.
But thinking of the diamond industry there is a high yield potential,small but I realy think it's a good base.
I also think it's better AI thus the flight still from the same point of view that 90% are from Indian nationality...

[LJ]

If I remember correctly, LH tried to increase its number of seats to India, with more frequencies or bigger planes, but was denied it, possibly because its reluctance to admit AI in the Star Alliance. Now that AI has joined *A, things might be different.

Those issues have been solved and LH sends their A380 to DEL now. However, the main problem for LH is the competition from the ME and EK especially. The ME airlines crabbing a part of the North America - India traffic (most notably the West coast - India) . Moreover, AI is bypassing Europe for North America (they'll introduce a nonstop DEL -SFO) and thus the competition in this market has grown. These developments will impact the necessity of a European hub for 9W.

[KriVa]

While I don't know anything about potential yields, skipping Europe when flying to SFO from India makes sense, as it's quite a detour to first pass by Europe.
However, if the focus of the operations would fall on the East Coast, a stop in Europe is far more likely to happen, since it provides the capability to transport more goods/passengers, to use less fuel, and it is only a relatively slight detour.
This map shows that situation quite clearly:

copyright gcmap.com

[White Light]

If it is true that 9W's flights between BOM/DEL and NYC/YYZ via BRU are loss-making, it does make sense to stop them, in spite of every effort made by BRU (and possibly SN) to keep them.
If my memory serves me right, not so long ago, 9W and EY were seriously considering a strong partnership with AF-KL. The "engagement" in the sense of fiançailles/verloving seems to be over. 9W is now part of "Etihad Airways Partners", a partnership where mainly EY is pulling the strings.
When 9W talks about redeploying there aircraft without necessarily leaving BRU, my cristal ball (ok, it's just a cristal ball, remember it guys) tells me 9W will fly more pax to AUH to connect to EY flights i.a. to North America and Europe, as well as to FCO (MXP ?) to connect to "Etihad Airways Partner" AZ to connect to South America (and Europe). What about "not necessarily leaving BRU" ? Well, they might keep the
BOM-BRU flight. What about the slots at AMS ? Well, there is a lot of fog coming into my cristal ball now, but I still seem to see a DEL-AMS flight.
All that remains for me now is to wait for the thunder from some luchtzak members.

[Jetter]

When 9W talks about redeploying there aircraft without necessarily leaving BRU, my cristal ball (ok, it's just a cristal ball, remember it guys) tells me 9W will fly more pax to AUH to connect to EY flights i.a. to North America and Europe, as well as to FCO (MXP ?) to connect to "Etihad Airways Partner" AZ to connect to South America (and Europe).

Those options make sense if EY is the one to make the decision (not sure in how far they truly are). If it's about connection options for 9W itself: KL/DL serve twice as many destinations in the Americas from just AMS as EY/AZ from AUH/MXP/FCO combined.

[Jetter]

A news article from Indian press with some additional views: http://www.livemint.com/Companies/JXM5V ... s-hub.html

It partly blames (lack of) support from SN to channelize passengers:

He said Jet Airways originally entered Brussels because it got a good deal from Brussels airport, and Brussels Airlines was going to help channelise passengers.

“However, not much success with that support. Also, Brussels is not a preferred destination in Europe for Indians apart from the diamond merchants. Jet Airways is looking to move to Amsterdam, where it can perhaps get into a joint venture with Delta/KLM-Air France to operate the india leg from Amsterdam,”

[LJ]

9W will fly more pax to AUH to connect to EY flights i.a. to North America and Europe, as well as to FCO (MXP ?) to connect to "Etihad Airways Partner" AZ to connect to South America (and Europe).

With the exception of YYZ this has already been the case (I consider EWR and JFK similar markets). AUH is already used as gateway to the US from India. If they want to fly to YYZ, they can do a nonstop (if they can have the traffic rights for a nonstop flight) or a one-stop and BRU/AMS are much better than FCO or MXP due to the local traffic on these routes. Routing via AUH is impossible due to the UAE - Canada bilateral.

[Passenger]

A news article from Indian press with some additional views: http://www.livemint.com/Companies/JXM5V ... s-hub.html
It partly blames (lack of) support from SN to channelize passengers:

He said Jet Airways originally entered Brussels because it got a good deal from Brussels airport, and Brussels Airlines was going to help channelise passengers.

“However, not much success with that support. Also, Brussels is not a preferred destination in Europe for Indians apart from the diamond merchants. Jet Airways is looking to move to Amsterdam, where it can perhaps get into a joint venture with Delta/KLM-Air France to operate the india leg from Amsterdam,”

The above quote is from a Mumbai based financial services professional and travel writer. What seeems more relevant to me, is what Jet Airways itself said in that article: "...A Jet Airways spokesperson said no specific decision with regard to the Brussels operation has been taken at this time... Jet Airways has only initiated a consultative process with its employees’ representatives in Brussels to determine future steps regarding its operations at Brussels Airport... This process is in line with Jet Airways’ approach of engaging with employees in a transparent manner regarding key business decisions and is also fully in compliance with Belgian laws... All the existing Jet Airways flights to and from Brussels continue to remain open for sale and travel..."

It looks to me that Jet Airways has received quite some distress calls from the Indian and the Belgian travel trade during the last days. Changing a hub is more then rerouting aircraft: it’s rerouting people with travel arrangements. Imagine you are a Belgian touroperator with an India program. Would you book new allotments on Jet Airways tomorrow? I don't hink so, unless with a no deposit policy and free cancellation if BRU goes offline. And why would that Belgian touroperator use Jet Airways out of AMS? KLM is much better then: no problem to get seats on BRU-AMS-BRU, the KLM crew speaks Dutch and English, and KLM is a European airline (thus EU legislation for both directions).

What has Jet Airways gained so far for the Dutch market? Nothing. Nobody there will switch from flag carrier KLM to Jet Airways with statements like maybe eventually perhaps we’ll move from BRU to AMS as from 1st January. But perhaps only as from 31st March, or perhaps not if negociations with Brussels turn out positive.

And what will the Indian diamond community in Antwerp do? Jet Airways will loose the huge benefit of a nonstop flight out of Brussels. Any airline that fills in that gap will get lots of Business Class tickets as a starters bonus.

If I was Jet Airways Belgium, I would beg Brussels Airlines and Brussels Airport to issue a joined statement "we have renewed our vows in our ménage à trois".