Jet Airways out of Brussels

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DannyVDB
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by DannyVDB » 19 Apr 2015, 12:22

Hi OO-ITR,

Not necessarily ... I don't know anymore where the figures are coming from, but you need to keep in mind that only 50% of Jet Airways pax is going from India to USA/Canada (and the other way around) ... 25% is going to/from Belgium/Belgian catchment area and the other 25% is going to/from other destinations in Europe/Africa.

I also think they make good money with their current operatons in/out BRU (I read this somewhere some time ago) ...

It has already been stated for years now they would leave BRU, but you need very good alternatives and direct filghts are not necessary providing this (also the idea of a hub in AMS is not 'obvious' since they would enter in competition there with KLM, ...).

regards,
Danny

danieln
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by danieln » 19 Apr 2015, 12:32

Air Key West wrote:I'd prefer to have a connection at BRU rather than CDG, however I cannot remember if you may smoke anywhere in transit at CDG (which you may not at BRU, hence the smell of smoke in the toilets :o ; off toic : when is BRU going to offer "Smoking Islands" btw ?) Being able to smoke when in transit is important to more pax than one would think (I don't smoke).
There are actually 2 smoking lounges in the transit zone at BRU. At the B-pier it is located near gate 17, and at the A pier near gate 63. Needless to say that these smoking rooms are heavily used :-)

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Established02
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by Established02 » 19 Apr 2015, 12:44

Jet Airways is recruiting some staff, seemingly for their BRU office.

http://www.brusselsairport.be/nl/jobs/community_jobs/
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White Light
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by White Light » 19 Apr 2015, 14:16

OO-ITR wrote:Will this mean the end of 9W in Brussels, or at least their scissor hub?
I don't think so. At least not in the near future. 9W is now promoting their flights to New York and Toronto from Paris via BRU with the Thalys for the summer at least. That is, in a nutshell, what AIr Journal is reporting today (see article below in French only, sorry).

http://www.air-journal.fr/2015-04-19-je ... 42929.html

LJ
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by LJ » 19 Apr 2015, 14:33

OO-ITR wrote:http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/ ... y-i-status

Will this mean the end of 9W in Brussels, or at least their scissor hub?
Why? It only means that 9W will be able to increase their flights to teh USA. 9W would have been able to remove the scissor hub when India was Cat II as, as far as I know, Cat II means that increases in frequency is not allowed.

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RoMax
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by RoMax » 19 Apr 2015, 15:47

LJ wrote: Why? It only means that 9W will be able to increase their flights to teh USA. 9W would have been able to remove the scissor hub when India was Cat II as, as far as I know, Cat II means that increases in frequency is not allowed.
I'm not saying it it's going to happen soon, but Etihad is said to prefer an increase of services between North America and India via AUH instead of having a European hub for such operations. 9W is expanding significantly on routes from India to AUH. In combination with EY's North American operations and the US preclearance in AUH, that would offer quite some additional flexibility.

9W couldn't make such a move until upgrade again to cat 1. However as said, 9W would lose the European market potential with such a move, so still to be seen if they will move and IF they do it, indeed to AUH, or maybe for example Italy to cooperate with Alitalia.

White Light
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by White Light » 19 Apr 2015, 17:00

RoMax wrote:if they will move and IF they do it, indeed to AUH, or maybe for example Italy to cooperate with Alitalia.
AUH and MXP/FCO are, indeed, concrete medium-term possibilities and potential threats for the 9W flights via BRU, given that Etihad is (not a majority shareholder), but an important shareholder/stakeholder in 9W.

However, I never would want to sit for some 14 hours in economy class to fly from AUH to NYC or YYZ (or some 16 hours with Emirates from DXB to LAX). The airlines which offer this must be sadists and the pax who accept it must be masochists. (First or Business class is a different story). Imagine sitting in a B777 with a ten-abreast configuration in Y for 14 hours ! The scissor hub in BRU, imho, makes the journey in Y between India and the US more bearable.

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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by LJ » 19 Apr 2015, 17:52

RoMax wrote:I'm not saying it it's going to happen soon, but Etihad is said to prefer an increase of services between North America and India via AUH instead of having a European hub for such operations. 9W is expanding significantly on routes from India to AUH. In combination with EY's North American operations and the US preclearance in AUH, that would offer quite some additional flexibility.
However, as long as the Indian government doesn't allow EY to have effective control over 9W, I'll doubt we'll see many changes in the way 9W operates its current US routes. Moving a hub was possible when India was Cat II, but they couldn't go ahead with that move. The 9W CEO apprantly already mentioned they'll avoid "cannibalisation" of current US routes. Chicago is rumoured to become the next 9W station but I would think this will be nonstop. The rest I expect to be codeshares ex AUH, but no new flights.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... ays-etihad
DannyVDB wrote: It has already been stated for years now they would leave BRU, but you need very good alternatives and direct filghts are not necessary providing this (also the idea of a hub in AMS is not 'obvious' since they would enter in competition there with KLM, ...).
However, unlike previous times 9W will now be able to codeshare on all US bound flights ex AMS, AUH or whatever other point, which previously wasn't allowed under Cat II. Moroever, DL is stopping AMS-BOM leaving AMS without a nonstop flight to BOM. The only fortunate thing for BRU is that AF/KL and DL seem to be the most fierce anti-ME3 airlines in the world right now. However, maybe their actions are keeping up appearances only and underneath have a total different view. It's still unclear what they discussed in a meeting at KL HQ a few weeks ago. To be honest, I sometimes wonder if AF/KL really is anti-ME3 or just playing a game and it's just a matter of time before AF/KL (and DL) announce some sort of alliance with EY.

Odly on the Indian forums they already forcast the end of the BRU scissor hub. However, given the effective control issue I doubt that the current flights will move soon. The Toronto flight cannot go via AUH due to bilateral issues. Thus they need another airport (though with AC starting nonstop service to DEL from YYZ, they may opt to go nonstop or axe YYZ).
Last edited by LJ on 19 Apr 2015, 18:33, edited 1 time in total.

LJ
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by LJ » 19 Apr 2015, 17:57

White Light wrote:However, I never would want to sit for some 14 hours in economy class to fly from AUH to NYC or YYZ (or some 16 hours with Emirates from DXB to LAX). The airlines which offer this must be sadists and the pax who accept it must be masochists.
If the price is right, then there will be enough people who'll fly a 10-abreast 777 in Y. Maybe not you, but it seems that there are enough people who don't care.
Last edited by sn26567 on 19 Apr 2015, 22:40, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: corrected BBCode

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RoMax
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by RoMax » 19 Apr 2015, 18:56

LJ wrote:
However, as long as the Indian government doesn't allow EY to have effective control over 9W, I'll doubt we'll see many changes in the way 9W operates its current US routes. Moving a hub was possible when India was Cat II, but they couldn't go ahead with that move. The 9W CEO apprantly already mentioned they'll avoid "cannibalisation" of current US routes. Chicago is rumoured to become the next 9W station but I would think this will be nonstop. The rest I expect to be codeshares ex AUH, but no new flights.
No moving the hub was not possible under CatII, that's effectively starting new routes and that's not possible.

Regarding the control issue, true but take a look at 9W's route development lately...EY is in control here, obviously, just in a hidden non-official way.

The US flights that EY launched with 9W aircraft out of AUH will now effectively become 9W operated flights, just a small step to launch additional services.

The biggest problem is losing the EU market by moving the hub and as you mentioned Canada.

White Light
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by White Light » 20 Apr 2015, 01:21

LJ wrote:If the price is right, then there will be enough people who'll fly a 10-abreast 777 in Y
Probably. But the price with EY/EK is not "right". Ex AUH or DXB, nonstop flights to NYC (for instance) are more expensive than travelling with a connection (mostly in Europe). The same goes for EY/EK ex India via AUH/DXB (and probably from many other countries/cities too). EY/EK are very seldom the cheapest.

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sn26567
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by sn26567 » 03 Sep 2015, 18:00

KLM has reached an agreement with Jet Airways and US partner Delta to carry out together flights between the United States, Canada and India via Amsterdam.

"The agreement is a breakthrough for the future of KLM" according to sources around Jet Airways, which is owned for 25% by Etihad, the "strategic" partner of KLM. Delta and Etihad are considered the leading candidates to take over KLM, if Air France-KLM is no longer able to keep the head above water.

Although a split is denied by the management of Air France-KLM, it is be taken into account by friend and foe. Sales and earnings of the Dutch-French aviation combination run as fast backward, with cuts that they are not able to catch up.

KLM sees the Indian market as promising, one of the fastest growing in the world. The intention is that Jet Airways will start at the beginning of next year with three daily flights from Schiphol to Delhi and Mumbai. KLM and Delta will provide connecting flights across the Atlantic.

The partnership between Delta, Jet Airways and KLM means that revenues and costs can be shared and that several daily flights can be offered. Director Dries van Luyk of Jet Airways and KLM CEO Pieter Elbers who have worked for months on the deal were not available for comments.

Lately it seemed the fire between Etihad and KLM was extinguished, also because of the warm ties between KLM and Delta. Delta CEO Richard Anderson came early this year with loud accusations of billions of illegal state aid to Etihad. The latter is still working on a charm offensive, including with the European Commission, to refute these allegations.

In January there was a meeting at Schiphol between the CEOs of KLM, Delta and Etihad to come closer together. The Arabs took over Alitalia last year, which then announced that it withdrew from the successful joint venture with Delta and Air France-KLM.

After De Telegraaf
André
ex Sabena #26567

LJ
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by LJ » 03 Sep 2015, 21:22

sn26567 wrote:KLM has reached an agreement with Jet Airways and US partner Delta to carry out together flights between the United States, Canada and India via Amsterdam.
We're talking about 1 daily AMS-BOM as of January 2016 (if it will happen). The Ducth 9W representative already downplayed the report citing that they haven't made a final decision yet. If this materialises, 9W will fill the void DL left after leaving the AMS-BOM market.
sn26567 wrote:After De Telegraaf
Given their anti-AF rant lately not surprising that they start news which isn't there (at least yet).

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lumumba
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by lumumba » 03 Sep 2015, 23:56

It's not one but 3 flights between AMS BOM and Delhi!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Flanker2
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by Flanker2 » 04 Sep 2015, 07:35

I will say good riddance if they move to AMS.
Perhaps SN can then look into opening up India out of BRU, as soon as 9W leaves, maintaining continuity for existing customers and snapping up the market that they developped.
I don't think that it will be ultra-lucrative, but there is potential to win higher yield customers if done right.

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Conti764
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by Conti764 » 04 Sep 2015, 08:00

What would be the number of O&D pax between BRU and India, in comparison to the transfer pax India-USA?

pijaleu
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by pijaleu » 04 Sep 2015, 09:50

If 9W moves to AMS, it will mean passengers have to swap planes and continue their journey on Delta (if comming from India).
They will have to rely on Delta's punctuality for a smooth connection (no idea about the timetable, so transfer time).
And what about cargo operations? A lot of cargo on BRU-EWR and BRU-YYZ.

In my opinion 9W can stay in BRU, or has to move all, including transatlantic flights.
Only time will tell

OO-ITR
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by OO-ITR » 25 Oct 2015, 06:09

Rumours go that Jet Airways took the decision to swap Brussels for Amsterdam next year...

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by brusselsairlinesfan » 25 Oct 2015, 12:00

OO-ITR wrote:Rumours go that Jet Airways took the decision to swap Brussels for Amsterdam next year...
À Long Time rumour ...

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Re: Jet Airways out of Brussels?

Post by Sabena320 » 25 Oct 2015, 12:26

brusselsairlinesfan wrote: À Long Time rumour ...
True, but it has never been so imminent... ;)

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