Jet Airways out of Brussels

[sn26567]

A new codeshare arrangement will be introduced between Air France, KLM and Indian carrier Jet Airways with effect from 19 June 2013.

Air France can now place its AF marketing code on Jet Airways domestic flights to three cities beyond Bengaluru, Delhi and Mumbai: to Chennai via Bengaluru, Delhi and Mumbai, and to Kolkata and Hyderabad via Mumbai and Bengaluru.

KLM’s KL code will now cover four new Indian cities via Delhi: Bengaluru, Chennai, Hyderabad and Mumbai.

Meanwhile, India’s Foreign Investment Promotion Board (FIPB) decided to put off a decision on Etihad’s planned purchase of a 24% stake in the carrier.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Does it mean that 9W will move ops to AMS sooner than expected?

[LJ]

Does it mean that 9W will move ops to AMS sooner than expected?

No, don't expect anything to change before the EY investment is approved (which is delayed again. Moreover, the AMS slotallocation lists doesn't list 9W (at least not at present), thus no slots have been rerquested for S13 so far.

Anyways if you had read the paper published here http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media ... y_2013.pdf by crlhub you would not ask yourself this question

Can you give me the entire link as I get a deadlink? Anyway I hope it adesses the most important question: where will AC get the aircraft from. YYZ-DEL can only be done with a 77W, 77L or 787. The 787 is planned as replacement for the 767. Leaves the 77W and 77L. However, the 5 new, soon to be delivered, 77Ws (in probably the perfect configuration for India flights) seem to have been planned in already for other destinations.

[VEX802]

For this coming winter season 2013/1014, Jet Airways has requested the following slots at AMS:

9W 224 - DEL -> arr. AMS 09.40 a/c 333 daily
9W 224 - dep. AMS 12.10 -> YYZ a/c 333 daily

9W 223 - YYZ -> arr. AMS 09.40 a/c 333 daily
9W 223 - dep. AMS 12.10 -> DEL a/c 333 daily

9W 231 - BOM -> arr. AMS 09.40 a/c 333 daily
9W 232 - dep. AMS 12.10 -> BOM a/c 333 daily

Source: airliners.net

[crlhub]

The full AC link with pdf:

check page 57

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media ... y_2013.pdf

[sn26567]

[air belgium]

Fingers crossed for AC 787 from Brussels to Toronto!

[quixoticguide]

AC.jpg

YUL-BEY Not very realistic to open this soon?

They just want to show the 788-range.

The 788 will replace the 767 so they will come to BRU.

[wernerrav4]

Fingers crossed for AC 787 from Brussels to Toronto!

Hello Patrice, i am looking forward to this,would be the second ride in this bird but now for at least 8 hours

[crlhub]

A very big potential exists for YULBEY with very high yield(almost 100.000 Libanese live in the YUL area,some very wealthy,mainly christians).AC is awaiting the green light for this route for years.RJ and QR are for the moment filling the gap(or via any European hub).

[LJ]

The full AC link with pdf:

check page 57

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/media ... y_2013.pdf

Thus basically it´s a map containing all possible destinations which the 787 can reach. If all destinations amaterialise they need more than 12 787s

The 788 will replace the 767 so they will come to BRU.

Unless BRU-YUL becomes AC Rouge than it will take a few more years..however I don´t think that this will happen.

For this coming winter season 2013/1014, Jet Airways has requested the following slots at AMS:

Thus completly according to the rumours (and thus AMS won´t take over the BRU hub, only YYZ).

[RoMax]

Unless BRU-YUL becomes AC Rouge than it will take a few more years..however I don´t think that this will happen.

If anything or anyone is taking over YUL, it will be SN. And it has been said numerous times before. 'Expectations' are that AC will abbandon the BRU-YUL market in favor of SN and instead start operating non-stop BRU-YYZ with the 787. This map is not 'just' to show the capabilities of the 787. Maybe not all routes may become reality, but in fact there is 'something' behind it all.

If all destinations amaterialise they need more than 12 787s

I admit, I didn't read everything, but how do you come up with the number of 12? They have 37 on order, currently all -8's, but they are planning to convert a part to the -9 and convert (a part of) their options into more orders for the -9 and the -10. They will receive their first one in March 2014, with about 7 in total next year.
As a result, about 20 767's will move to Rouge.

[Inquirer]

For this coming winter season 2013/1014, Jet Airways has requested the following slots at AMS:

9W 224 - DEL -> arr. AMS 09.40 a/c 333 daily
9W 224 - dep. AMS 12.10 -> YYZ a/c 333 daily

9W 223 - YYZ -> arr. AMS 09.40 a/c 333 daily
9W 223 - dep. AMS 12.10 -> DEL a/c 333 daily

9W 231 - BOM -> arr. AMS 09.40 a/c 333 daily
9W 232 - dep. AMS 12.10 -> BOM a/c 333 daily

Source: airliners.net

So the Toronto flight will pass through AMS and they'll move BOM, and that's it?
Not much of a 'hub' anymore: not in BRU, but neither in AMS.

BTW- How are they going to serve New York in future?
it's not mentioned above, but it can't be staying through BRU if the BOM flight moves to AMS, yet they don't mention the second leg of the flight in their request at AMS anylonger.
Is New York quietly closed and rerouted through KLM and Etihad?
The current operators on the market must be laughing all the way to the bank if this is the final picture: when are they officially going to announce the closure of their activities at BRU?

[LJ]

If all destinations amaterialise they need more than 12 787s

I admit, I didn't read everything, but how do you come up with the number of 12? They have 37 on order, currently all -8's, but they are planning to convert a part to the -9 and convert (a part of) their options into more orders for the -9 and the -10. They will receive their first one in March 2014, with about 7 in total next year.As a result, about 20 767's will move to Rouge.

If you look further in their presentation (slide 67) you'll see that the 787 order can be split into 12 787 to increase capacity and the rest for 333/767 substitution (they'll have 8 A333s and 17 767s on December, which is exactly the 25 787 remaining on order). The presentation makes it clear that the current order is to replace the 333 and 767 (you only have to read the tone of the presentation). I agree, the presentation doesn't say that the 333s and 767s will be replaced after December 2015, but they sell the 787 order to their investors based on the cost savings which actually won't materialise until December 2015 unless you count the fact that they'l move many flights to AC Rouge (for which they didn't need to order the 787).

BTW- How are they going to serve New York in future?

Via AUH if everything goes according to plan (though it's possible that they'll stop these flights and use an EY aircraft). If you look at EYs plans for 9W you'll see that everything will be going via AUH whereby 9W feeds AUH with 738s from all over India. YYZ wasn't possible via AUH as the Canada - UAE bilateral doesn't allow that, thus an alternative had to be sought.

Finally, you'll have to see this in a much greater perspective. As you may know, AUH almost got US pre-clearance and the emir of AUH was prepared to pay the bill for this. However, fortunately for EU and US airlines, the US voted this down. EY is determined to become a very big player on the India - transatlantic flows and 9W will help them. If EY would be able to get additional (sufficient) rights to Canada I would be sure that 9W wouldn't fly AMS-YYZ or even AMS-BOM/DEL.

[sn-remember]

I think LH and SN should give a deep thought on the voisd created by 9W diinvestment at BRU.
Elements to consider :
1. there is quite a significant local traffic between bom and del (marginally maa) , enough to sustain a daily thin route
2. lh suffers stringent limitations on the indian market on behalf of difficulty to adapt bilaterals
3. lx is at max currently in India, the authorities argue that they are fully a lh entity
4. sn is not a lh entity
5. bilaterals between B. and India are among the most generous ! with traffic rights to bom,del,maa,blr !
.
Bru could be considered as a golden opportunbity to lh via it's sn partial subsidiary.
A 332 could find it's way initially to bom provided extensive UA/AC/CO/SN/LH/LX/OS/SK feeding is provided.. and developped. Later to del ?

[convair]

@ sn-remember
Interesting idea, but, re your point 1, do you think SN would have the right to carry local traffic?


Edit: it seems the BOM-DEL route is well served by several local airlines.

[RoMax]

BOM-DEL is such a route everyone in India wants to serve, but in fact there is nothing to earn anymore (Indian airlines say it themself, but it's a prestige and important feeding route).

Anyway, la libre says today that SN is looking at their 3rd destination in North-America for 2014 and Montreal is one of them (besides Boston, Los Angeles (not SFO apperently?) and.... PHL (don't understand that one, so much OD because they'll lose US as partner?)). Montreal appeared again only recently, seems they do think about the time after Jet. The sooner Jet leaves the BRU-YYZ market, the sooner AC will want to take it, the sooner SN will want to take YUL.

[LJ]

I think LH and SN should give a deep thought on the voisd created by 9W diinvestment at BRU Elements to consider :
1. there is quite a significant local traffic between bom and del (marginally maa) , enough to sustain a daily thin route

Anyone following Inidan aviation or Indian business in general will know that the Indian government will never allow a foreign airline to have traffic rights on domestic sectors as they're very nationalistic in these matters.

4. sn is not a lh entity

The Indians re not stupid. They know that SN is defacto a LH entity as LH controls SN (and in a few years Sn is a LH entity in financial terms as well).

5. bilaterals between B. and India are among the most generous ! with traffic rights to bom,del,maa,blr !

Probably the only benefit. However, BLR is useless as the prime connecting market is between US West coast and BLR.

Bru could be considered as a golden opportunbity to lh via it's sn partial subsidiary.
A 332 could find it's way initially to bom provided extensive UA/AC/CO/SN/LH/LX/OS/SK feeding is provided.. and developped. Later to del ?

Though the only logical scenario, it still depends oin what will happen to the India - Germany bilateral.

[Atlantis]

Anyway, la libre says today that SN is looking at their 3rd destination in North-America for 2014 and Montreal is one of them (besides Boston, Los Angeles (not SFO apperently?) and.... PHL (don't understand that one, so much OD because they'll lose US as partner?)). Montreal appeared again only recently, seems they do think about the time after Jet. The sooner Jet leaves the BRU-YYZ market, the sooner AC will want to take it, the sooner SN will want to take YUL.

SN should indeed thinking agressively and not always looking what others do. Jet had other plans when EY took a stake in this airline. So good of SN that they are looking now to Montréal too. Montréal will give them a huge potential and feed to their African network. AC was feeding those routes with huge success.

We will see more and more that SN, AC and UA will cover each other so I think, and this is only my interpretation, that Montreal will be a bigger candidate then Boston, Los Angeles or PHL.
SN is not forgetting that their African network is still the most important laung haul network so they need to feed it and to extend it further after the 3rd North-American destination.

[sn-remember]

I think LH and SN should give a deep thought on the voisd created by 9W diinvestment at BRU Elements to consider :
1. there is quite a significant local traffic between bom and del (marginally maa) , enough to sustain a daily thin route

Anyone following Inidan aviation or Indian business in general will know that the Indian government will never allow a foreign airline to have traffic rights on domestic sectors as they're very nationalistic in these matters.

OMG you don't follow me .. Maybe I was unclear ..
By "local" I mean (of course ..) the O/D traffic between BRU and India..
I noted somewhere that BOM-bru like DEL-bru traffic is quite significant (around 100 pax/day)
Same magnitude as ams-Bom/del
It represents a significant part of a A332/3 (or 767) capacity but the other biggest part is the through traffic onwards to Europe+NA
And there the Star-A codesharing is needed.
Understand me well .. I say the market is potentially there .. it could be exploited by AC for instance in the short term. You could even have a dual route scissor hubbing at bru:
yul/yyz-bru-del/bom althougn the priority is bom since 9W is still present.
A mini AC/SN JV operated with AC metal could even be envisaged, which would give sn space and breath to develop other more urgent markets along the afi-NA axis. SN is really short of aircrafts to develop fast as I believe is required.