National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Kapitein
Posts: 1694
Joined: 29 Jul 2004, 00:00
Location: Somewhere around the globe....
Contact:

National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by Kapitein »

Several media reporting a National Air Cargo 747-400BCF crashed at Bagram, Afghanistan.
Cause isn't known for now.

A picture just after the crash shows the disaster

Image

User avatar
golf1411
Posts: 231
Joined: 29 May 2003, 00:00
Location: 1981 Hofstade

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by golf1411 »

Ex Air France F-GISE :(


hbervoets
Posts: 30
Joined: 22 Nov 2010, 01:32

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by hbervoets »

And ex TF-NAD

Construction Number (MSN) 25630
Line Number 960
Aircraft Type Boeing 747-428(M)
First Flight 29-01-1993
Age 20.3 Years
Written Off on 29-04-2013


cnc
Posts: 1311
Joined: 19 May 2009, 16:14

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by cnc »

oh damn :shock:

flightlover
Posts: 710
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by flightlover »

Wow, looks like a take off stall.

And the people in those buses have a real good guardian angel.

Tomskii
Posts: 255
Joined: 15 Jan 2012, 11:46

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by Tomskii »

Weight shift was reported causing the stall. Afraid not much the pilots could do..

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 40828
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by sn26567 »

There is an interesting analysis of the crash sequence shown by the video in FlightGlobal:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ce-385338/


Boeing Statement on National Air Cargo Company Accident

The Boeing Company extends sincere condolences to the families and friends of the crew who perished in the crash of a National Air Cargo flight near Bagram, Afghanistan. At the request of the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, Boeing will provide technical assistance to investigating authorities.

In accordance with international protocol governing aviation accident investigations, all inquiries about the investigation should be directed to the Afghan Ministry of Transport and Civil Aviation (MoTCA).

SEATTLE, April 30, 2013


NTSB has sent a team of experts to Bagram.
André
ex Sabena #26567

cnc
Posts: 1311
Joined: 19 May 2009, 16:14

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by cnc »

Tomskii wrote:Weight shift was reported causing the stall. Afraid not much the pilots could do..
you mean as in moving cargo?

flightlover
Posts: 710
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by flightlover »

cnc wrote:
Tomskii wrote:Weight shift was reported causing the stall. Afraid not much the pilots could do..
you mean as in moving cargo?
That is exactly what he means.
This can happen due to bad locking of the cargo pallets in the plane, or (incorrect) use of not enough/faulty tie-down materials.

Inquirer
Posts: 2095
Joined: 14 Feb 2012, 14:30

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by Inquirer »

Imagine that at BRU!
That's a crash straight on the ring or on Evere.
:(

cnc
Posts: 1311
Joined: 19 May 2009, 16:14

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by cnc »

we are talking about a (fully loaded?) 747 with the engines as good as on full power.
i can't see how a pallet of cargo moving could do this.
its not like it has the space to move 5m from the left to the right.
any 747 pilots here?

FlightMate
Posts: 390
Joined: 15 Mar 2007, 14:39

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by FlightMate »

cnc wrote:we are talking about a (fully loaded?) 747 with the engines as good as on full power.
i can't see how a pallet of cargo moving could do this.
its not like it has the space to move 5m from the left to the right.
any 747 pilots here?
No but it has the room to move 60m down the back.
If it is a heavy vehicle, this could cause the Centre of Gravity to shift significantly, up to a point where the Autopilot cannot cope with the change of attitude, or the pilot can't trim it fast enough maybe?
It could as well end up being out of the flying envelope. Thus being irrecoverable.

User avatar
sn26567
Posts: 40828
Joined: 13 Feb 2003, 00:00
Location: Rosières/Rozieren, Belgium
Contact:

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by sn26567 »

Pallets? It were 5 heavy armoured vehicles. If one of them was not securely anchored, it could easily move and displace the other vehicles as well.

As mentioned in the above analysis, the aircraft was ascending very fast, with a large angle against the soil level.

The loadmaster (I think he was amongst the victims) could have known his moment of glory in a trial if he had survived.
André
ex Sabena #26567

cnc
Posts: 1311
Joined: 19 May 2009, 16:14

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by cnc »

sn26567 wrote:Pallets? It were 5 heavy armoured vehicles. If one of them was not securely anchored, it could easily move and displace the other vehicles as well.

As mentioned in the above analysis, the aircraft was ascending very fast, with a large angle against the soil level.

The loadmaster (I think he was amongst the victims) could have known his moment of glory in a trial if he had survived.
oh the payload was armoured vehicles?

User avatar
9vsmu
Posts: 154
Joined: 27 Feb 2009, 16:50

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by 9vsmu »

cnc wrote:we are talking about a (fully loaded?) 747 with the engines as good as on full power.
i can't see how a pallet of cargo moving could do this.
its not like it has the space to move 5m from the left to the right.
any 747 pilots here?

Not a pilot, but quite familiar with weight and balance.
It's not a question of moving 5 m from left to right, but from forward to aft.



The known facts are : the a/c was loaded with 5 armoured vehicles weighing around 25000lbs each.
This is non standard cargo and is loaded as such. In loadcontrol terms this is what is called "floating pallets". This means that no (or limited number) of the locks provided are used and that the cargo is strapped down according to the company/manufacturers rules. The number of straps is determined by the weight of the item, the strength of the starps/fittings. All weight and balance manuals will also show the forces these straps have to withstand (2.1 up/1.5 fwd, aft, sideways). In the manual you can also find which straps can be used. Most common are the ones with fittings certified up to 5000lbs/2250kg

A quick calculation shows : assuming 1 verhicle weighs 15000kg.

fwd straps 15000x1.5/2250 gives 10 straps
sideways 15000x1.5/2250 gives 10 straps (x2)
aft 15000x1.5/2250 gives 10straps
upwards 15000x2.1/2250 gives 14straps

This is just a minimum. Additional rules can dictate higher nr of straps.

I can assure you that when you have to tiedown 5 such vehicles, you'll be busy quite some time.
Hope this sheds some light on this matter

flightlover
Posts: 710
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by flightlover »

sn26567 wrote:Pallets? It were 5 heavy armoured vehicles. If one of them was not securely anchored, it could easily move and displace the other vehicles as well.

As mentioned in the above analysis, the aircraft was ascending very fast, with a large angle against the soil level.

The loadmaster (I think he was amongst the victims) could have known his moment of glory in a trial if he had survived.
Though you can load vehicles without pallets in some planes, in a 747F you do need them. There is a whole loading system installed which makes it almost impossible to load vehicles without a pallet underneath.
What is done sometime is to load empty pallets at first to make it possible to drive cars inside.

Besides, these pallets are not only for speeding up loading but also to disperse the weight over a larger area. Something you really want to do especially with HEAVY army vehicles as suggested.

ps: A 'fully' loaded a/c doesn't mean there is no open space left. It may just be at max take-off weight.

cnc
Posts: 1311
Joined: 19 May 2009, 16:14

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by cnc »

flightlover wrote: ps: A 'fully' loaded a/c doesn't mean there is no open space left. It may just be at max take-off weight.
true but the load should be placed to both balance the aircraft (trim) and to limit the possible movement in case part of the load gets a free ticket to move.
i've done my share of 747 loadplans and we placed vehicles always on pallets but i can imagene setting a massive vehicle loose on such an angle could cause to "free" the vehicles behind it.
didn't know what the load was before

flightlover
Posts: 710
Joined: 12 Aug 2008, 08:26

Re: National Air Cargo crashed in Bagram, Afghanistan

Post by flightlover »

cnc wrote: true but the load should be placed to both balance the aircraft (trim) and to limit the possible movement in case part of the load gets a free ticket to move.
i've done my share of 747 loadplans and we placed vehicles always on pallets but i can imagene setting a massive vehicle loose on such an angle could cause to "free" the vehicles behind it.
didn't know what the load was before
I fully agree with you. Just wanted to make it clear to SN26567 pallets where used although vehicles where loaded.

Nice load vs tie-down calculation btw 9vsmu.

Post Reply