Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

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Passenger
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 07 Oct 2018, 14:49

A EUR 600 million bridge loan to Alitalia was provided for in Decree Law No 55 of 2 May 2017. This loan, granted by the State, with an interest rate equal to the 6-month Euribor rate published on the working day preceding the payment, plus 1 000 basis points, was to be repaid within six months as from the first disbursement of the loan, i.e. by 5 November 2017, with priority over the repayment of any other debt owned by Alitalia in the extraordinary administration procedure.

In May 2017, an attempt to sell Alitalia’s assets via a tendering procedure started, whose original deadline for the selection of the winning bidder was postponed by Decree Law No 148 of 16 October 2017 from November 2017 to 30 April 2018.

In view of the prolongation of the tendering process, Decree Law No 148/2017 as converted into law by Law No 172 of 4 December 2017 also extended the repayment of the EUR 600 million State loan until 30 September 2018 and increased the loan by an additional EUR 300 million, to be repaid by 31 December 2018, bringing the total loan amount to EUR 900 million (‘the initial loan’ and ‘the loan extension’ will jointly be referred to as ‘the measures’).

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 18 Oct 2018, 18:51

Alitalia unions reject downsizing of the airline’s workforce as a proposed measure to save the company.

Why am I not surprised? In a country where the Government shows the wrong example by increasing the deficit against the objections of the European Commission...
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 10 Nov 2018, 18:52

White smoke in view? Alitalia commissioners want to complete their examination of the proposals received for the sale of the company next week.

And among the surprising proposals, Alitalia may receive possible interest from investment fund Brookfield Asset Management (Canada) who could join the offer from the Italian railway company Ferrovie dello Stato.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 10 Nov 2018, 20:39

sn26567 wrote:
10 Nov 2018, 18:52
White smoke in view? Alitalia commissioners want to complete their examination of the proposals received for the sale of the company next week.

And among the surprising proposals, Alitalia may receive possible interest from investment fund Brookfield Asset Management (Canada) who could join the offer from the Italian railway company Ferrovie dello Stato.
The European Commission will reject a take over by Italy's railway company because it's state owned. The take over then is state aid.

The commissioners may gain some time for Alitalia with such take over bid, but when the European Commission regards it as gain of time indeed, they will react as such.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 10 Nov 2018, 22:22

Passenger wrote:
10 Nov 2018, 20:39
sn26567 wrote:
10 Nov 2018, 18:52
White smoke in view? Alitalia commissioners want to complete their examination of the proposals received for the sale of the company next week.

And among the surprising proposals, Alitalia may receive possible interest from investment fund Brookfield Asset Management (Canada) who could join the offer from the Italian railway company Ferrovie dello Stato.
The European Commission will reject a take over by Italy's railway company because it's state owned. The take over then is state aid.

The commissioners may gain some time for Alitalia with such take over bid, but when the European Commission regards it as gain of time indeed, they will react as such.
The Italian government was very clear about it they don't care if they don't receive the aprovel from Brussels!
They will do there plan with or without the EU like there national budget was done,and there are right in my perspective.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by ezis_bis » 11 Nov 2018, 02:14

lumumba wrote:
10 Nov 2018, 22:22
The Italian government was very clear about it they don't care if they don't receive the aprovel from Brussels!
They will do there plan with or without the EU like there national budget was done,and there are right in my perspective.
Actually they already adapted their budget a bit. The interest they have to pay on their debt went way up recently. If they think the EU commission is an issue, I fear they will be very surprised by the way the markets will react. And not in a good way.
I also think Italy better spends his money elsewhere. They better invest in Infrastructure, Health Care and Schools than in this never ending story about a bottomless pit

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 11 Nov 2018, 12:57

ezis_bis wrote:
11 Nov 2018, 02:14
lumumba wrote:
10 Nov 2018, 22:22
The Italian government was very clear about it they don't care if they don't receive the aprovel from Brussels!
They will do there plan with or without the EU like there national budget was done,and there are right in my perspective.
Actually they already adapted their budget a bit. The interest they have to pay on their debt went way up recently. If they think the EU commission is an issue, I fear they will be very surprised by the way the markets will react. And not in a good way.
I also think Italy better spends his money elsewhere. They better invest in Infrastructure, Health Care and Schools than in this never ending story about a bottomless pit
They now what there are doing if the interest go up to much to country will go bankrupt and the banks will lose everything.
They Italian government is ready to go back to the Lira without any debt anymore that's maybe what should happen for once that the banks also pay for the mistake they did.
They took the risk to lend money to easy they pay for the risk but not the Italian people who suffers already to much.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by ezis_bis » 11 Nov 2018, 13:31

lumumba wrote:
11 Nov 2018, 12:57
They now what there are doing if the interest go up to much to country will go bankrupt and the banks will lose everything.
They Italian government is ready to go back to the Lira without any debt anymore that's maybe what should happen
Even if they revert to the Lira, the debt remains. I don't see why that would go away. It will even get more expensive to pay back !
Besides, the banks going bankrupt will mainly harm the Italian citizens having money in those banks or losing these services. It's completely bonkers.

But all of this aside, this is not the right place to discussie this

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 11 Nov 2018, 13:51

ezis_bis wrote:
11 Nov 2018, 13:31
lumumba wrote:
11 Nov 2018, 12:57
They now what there are doing if the interest go up to much to country will go bankrupt and the banks will lose everything.
They Italian government is ready to go back to the Lira without any debt anymore that's maybe what should happen
Even if they revert to the Lira, the debt remains. I don't see why that would go away. It will even get more expensive to pay back !
Besides, the banks going bankrupt will mainly harm the Italian citizens having money in those banks or losing these services. It's completely bonkers.

But all of this aside, this is not the right place to discussie this
Yes it is it's linked to Alitalia....
If the country go bankrupt they have no dept anymore it's over,sure they will have to adapt there economy to somthing else out of the euro and a more national one but without debt there economy will flourish.
They even could be example of a new way what has to be the Greek way but they did not do it why nobody nows!

Like Greece the biggest part of the dept is in hand of banks outside Italy and anyway the Italian banks are bankrupt already.
Last edited by lumumba on 11 Nov 2018, 13:55, edited 1 time in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by ezis_bis » 11 Nov 2018, 13:55

lumumba wrote:
11 Nov 2018, 13:51
Yes it is it's linked to Alitalia....
If the country go bankrupt they have no dept anymore it's over,sure thay will have to adapt there economy to somthing else out of the euro and a more natinal one but without debt there economy will flourish.
They even could be example of a new way what has to be the Greek way but they did not do it why nobody nows!
A country can default and negotiate with its creditors, but the debt remains.
Look at Argentina.
The tricky part after that, is they will depend on the IMF if they need loans, as they can't find anyone to found them anymore

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 11 Nov 2018, 13:59

ezis_bis wrote:
11 Nov 2018, 13:55
lumumba wrote:
11 Nov 2018, 13:51
Yes it is it's linked to Alitalia....
If the country go bankrupt they have no dept anymore it's over,sure thay will have to adapt there economy to somthing else out of the euro and a more natinal one but without debt there economy will flourish.
They even could be example of a new way what has to be the Greek way but they did not do it why nobody nows!
A country can default and negotiate with its creditors, but the debt remains.
Look at Argentina.
The tricky part after that, is they will depend on the IMF if they need loans, as they can't find anyone to found them anymore
That's one possibility but Italy is a strong industrial country with a big touristic industry Europeans will always go there you can not compare Argentina with Italy they can continue in a other system.
And if they go bankrupt It's finished with the debt like every company....

Also think if it happens it will bring all this f...ing ultra liberal system down.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 11 Nov 2018, 14:53

lumumba wrote:
11 Nov 2018, 13:59
Also think if it happens it will bring all this f...ing ultra liberal system down.
The financiel problems in Italy are not caused by a "f...ing ultra liberal system", but by the previous governments, who all failed to do what had to be done. But if you want to go on with this f...ing political posts, please do that where it belongs = this forum:
viewforum.php?f=12

Back on topic: it's just a matter of time before the European Commission publishes it's decision on the state aid for Alitalia:
http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade ... 3_SA_48171
Untill that decision is known, no private partner will "invest" in Alitalia. And any new funding by Italy, via their railway company, will be added to the above EC case.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 11 Nov 2018, 15:15

Passenger wrote:
11 Nov 2018, 14:53
lumumba wrote:
11 Nov 2018, 13:59
Also think if it happens it will bring all this f...ing ultra liberal system down.
The financiel problems in Italy are not caused by a "f...ing ultra liberal system", but by the previous governments, who all failed to do what had to be done. But if you want to go on with this f...ing political posts, please do that where it belongs = this forum:
viewforum.php?f=12

Back on topic: it's just a matter of time before the European Commission publishes it's decision on the state aid for Alitalia:
http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade ... 3_SA_48171
Untill that decision is known, no private partner will "invest" in Alitalia. And any new funding by Italy, via their railway company, will be added to the above EC case.
I'm not agree but it's good one :D :D :D
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Boeing767copilot » 19 Nov 2018, 15:24

The leaders of the carrier Alitalia and the unions met -last Friday- at the Italian Ministry of Economic Development, in a meeting in which -as reported by the "Corriere della Sera"- the economic performance of the company was presented, confirming that the revenues are in increase as well as passengers even if at the same time continues to operate at a loss of about 1.5 million euros per day. An impressive number that shows how the approximately 18 months of supervised administration, even though they allowed Alitalia to stay alive, did not lead to a return to the carrier's viability.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 22 Nov 2018, 15:28

You can now fly the Italian Railways:

Alitalia commissioners accept Ferrovie dello Stato purchase offer

The state-appointed commissioners running Alitalia have accepted a binding purchase offer for the national carrier by the Ferrovie dello Stato (FS) state railway company.

Italy's flagship airline was put under special administration last year after workers rejected its latest rescue plan, leaving the government once again seeking a buyer to save the ailing company.

The commissioners accepted the offer from FS after consultation with the industry ministry.

(Reuters, via Euronews)
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by convair » 22 Nov 2018, 18:02

The easy one: will FS put Alitalia back on the right tracks? 8-)

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 22 Nov 2018, 18:04

:) a beautiful game of the word! Apart from that, it is a shrewd wink of the eye, and only too true, one must fear.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 26 Nov 2018, 18:17

Ferrovie dello Stato plans to create a new, 100% owned company following a successful bid to take over Alitalia (Italy). The State railway company to take on investment partners Delta Air Lines and easyJet to join, in addition to two other investment funds. Over €2 billion will be injected over the coming four years, with approximately €1.5 billion in fresh resources, and an additional €500 million – a sum equivalent to half of the Italian carrier’s bridge loan – converted into the company’s capital.

If that is not State aid (Ferrovie dello Stato is a state-owned company), I don't know how to call it. The ball is now in the hands of the European Commission!
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 03 Dec 2018, 23:37

ANSA: "...La proroga del prestito ponte per Alitalia finisce nel decreto "in materia di semplificazione e sostegno allo sviluppo" atteso al prossimo consiglio dei ministri. E' quanto emerge da una bozza del dl. Il prestito era in scadenza il 15 dicembre. La nuova data di restituzione è fissata "entro 30 giorni dall'intervenuta efficacia della cessione dei complessi aziendali" e comunque "non oltre il termine del 30 giugno 2019"...

http://www.ansa.it/sito/notizie/economi ... dc783.html

Google Translate: "...The extension of the bridging loan for Alitalia ends in the decree "on simplification and development support" expected at the next Council of Ministers. This is what emerges from a draft of the dl. The loan was due on December 15th. The new repayment date is set "within 30 days of the effective effectiveness of the sale of the business complexes" and in any case "no later than the deadline of 30 June 2019"...

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by convair » 04 Dec 2018, 14:44

I hope the saga goes on. There's never a dull moment! ;)

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