Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

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737MAX
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by 737MAX » 21 Dec 2019, 17:04

sn26567 wrote:
21 Dec 2019, 15:21
Should we believe that or have a good laugh?
I don't think the fact that thousands of people might be losing their job is worth the question.
Whether it's true or not, those who risk their job are not laughing at all. Those who laugh with this are selfish idiots.

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sn26567
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 21 Dec 2019, 22:48

Delta Air Lines is putting pressure on Air France KLM to enter the shareholding of the new Alitalia to prevent the Italian carrier from falling into the Lufthansa network.
André
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 22 Dec 2019, 11:58

737MAX wrote:
21 Dec 2019, 17:04
sn26567 wrote:
21 Dec 2019, 15:21
Should we believe that or have a good laugh?
I don't think the fact that thousands of people might be losing their job is worth the question.
Whether it's true or not, those who risk their job are not laughing at all. Those who laugh with this are selfish idiots.
Nobody laughs with the employees, but fact is that the ongoing state support is ridiculous. A statement "for the last time" is such nonsense that a good laugh is a normal reply to that lie.

Alitalia is subsidized employment. The only reason why it doesn't stop, is because the EU-bureaucrats take their time to investigate is.

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Yuqu12
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Yuqu12 » 22 Dec 2019, 14:23

Passenger wrote:
22 Dec 2019, 11:58
737MAX wrote:
21 Dec 2019, 17:04
sn26567 wrote:
21 Dec 2019, 15:21
Should we believe that or have a good laugh?
I don't think the fact that thousands of people might be losing their job is worth the question.
Whether it's true or not, those who risk their job are not laughing at all. Those who laugh with this are selfish idiots.
Nobody laughs with the employees, but fact is that the ongoing state support is ridiculous. A statement "for the last time" is such nonsense that a good laugh is a normal reply to that lie.

Alitalia is subsidized employment. The only reason why it doesn't stop, is because the EU-bureaucrats take their time to investigate is.
Plus it's extremely difficult to make them stop. The Commission can order them to repay the illegal State aid, but if Italy doesn't comply, it can take years before the CJEU condemns Italy to pay a lump sum fine and a fine per day that they don't order to repay the illegal State aid.

Ansett
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Ansett » 22 Dec 2019, 18:29

I am not against the EU, but against the way it has been functioning in the last two decades. Although they will deny it, the Commission's tagline has been : «All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others» (George Orwell). I doubt that the new Commission will change that. Nevertheless, I would hate to see Alialia disappear. I would recommend to their employees and unions to study the period preceding Sabena's demise and what happened afterwards. The situations are not identical, but show quite a number of similarities.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 23 Dec 2019, 08:49

Yuqu12 wrote:
22 Dec 2019, 14:23
Passenger wrote:
22 Dec 2019, 11:58
...
Alitalia is subsidized employment. The only reason why it doesn't stop, is because the EU-bureaucrats take their time to investigate.
...
Plus it's extremely difficult to make them stop. The Commission can order them to repay the illegal State aid, but if Italy doesn't comply, it can take years before the CJEU condemns Italy to pay a lump sum fine and a fine per day that they don't order to repay the illegal State aid.
Indeed, if the EU rules that it is illegal state aid indeed, it can take a few more years before the money will be actually recovered.

But the EU slowness is also a major disadvantage for Alitalia. Without a EU decision, foreign airlines will not invest hard money into Alitalia: they know that the risks exists that the Italian authorities will be forced to recover 1,3 billion € from the Alitalia bank account (think it's 600M + 300M + 400M).

Ansett
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Ansett » 23 Dec 2019, 11:38

And how are they recover that money from an empty bank account ?
Are AZ aircraft owned by the airline ?

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lumumba
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 23 Dec 2019, 13:46

Alitalia will never pay back the money they received from the Italian state and the EU will not move!

Today the EU is more afraid that another country could leave it and today the anti EU feeling is very strong they will not make it stronger sure not in Italy.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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sn26567
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 08 Jan 2020, 22:44

Alitalia's extraordinary commissioner, Giuseppe Leogrande, says the carrier had “burned up around €300 million a year in the period of extraordinary administration”, which began over three years ago.

Will the government ever see its money back? (They don't say like Margaret Thatcher to the EU: "I want my money back" :) )
André
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sn26567
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 09 Jan 2020, 19:07

Is the end near?

Alitalia is in an “alarming situation” as the latest attempts to rescue the airline end in failure. State railway Ferrovie dello Stato and Lufthansa pulled out of a rescue attempt.
André
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ticketbuyer
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by ticketbuyer » 10 Jan 2020, 07:47

In an official hearing yesterday Gianfranco BattistiHead of Ferrovia Italia, said that neither they or LH had any further interest in Alitalia.

convair
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by convair » 10 Jan 2020, 10:45

Let's give it another try with Costa Cruises now! :) ;)

ticketbuyer
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by ticketbuyer » 10 Jan 2020, 18:59

Latest rumour is that Atlantia, owners of FCO, will take a major stake in AZ. Why? Atlantia risks losing its very lucrative Autostrada franchise because of the collapse of their Morandi Bridge on 14 August 2018,causing the death of 39 people. A lovely Italian style compromise.

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luchtzak
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by luchtzak » 15 Jan 2020, 16:26

Alitalia given six months to repay €400mn state loan, CH-Aviation writes (behind pay wall)

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 16 Jan 2020, 21:38

luchtzak wrote:
15 Jan 2020, 16:26
Alitalia given six months to repay €400mn state loan, CH-Aviation writes (behind pay wall)
I can't find confirmation about this on the European Union's State Aid website.
Who has ordered this repayment? The Italian government?

And if Alitalia can't repay, they will probably get a new loan from the Italian government that will allow them to settle the old loan...

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