Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

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Passenger
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger »

Just like Sabena, Alitalia is a loss making company. Governments supporting this kind of business falsify competion towards non-funded airlines. Unfair competition: the European Union calls it "illegal state aid".

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by luchtzak »

Passenger wrote:
06 May 2019, 22:03
Just like Sabena, Alitalia is a loss making company. Governments supporting this kind of business falsify competion towards non-funded airlines. Unfair competition: the European Union calls it "illegal state aid".
You can sanitize, make the airline healthy again, close routes, etc...

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba »

Passenger wrote:
06 May 2019, 22:03
Just like Sabena, Alitalia is a loss making company. Governments supporting this kind of business falsify competion towards non-funded airlines. Unfair competition: the European Union calls it "illegal state aid".
ALITALIA is to important for Italy,tourism is the first income of Italy and ALITALIA is an important tool for that....you can not replace it you can not lose it's national interest forger about the rest .

The EU needs to care more about the people and less about the money!
Last edited by lumumba on 07 May 2019, 23:33, edited 1 time in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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cathay belgium
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,

Indeed yes... State aid... Like Turkish,Emirates,Etihad,Qatar,.......
Not fair but a common.... for those who can...
It may be not okay but looking at the total picture... Without you loose more now...
Like Greece dumping out of the EU a few years ago , this AZ Will be such a similar event... The momentum is gone..

It hurts to see they can and SN couldn't but that might never be a reason.. to be jealous of not going bust ???

Well SN was killed by our own government ( and Swissair - like LH now btw.. ) but AZ is a different story , they have support..

Illegale state aid is illegal when proven so,when the EU don't intervene I guess your reasons are overruled by your own choosen european government ;)

CXB... Well time will Tell ;)
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ticketbuyer
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by ticketbuyer »

The latest 'savior' of AZ is billionaire Claudio Lotito, owner of SS Lazio. Lotito said 'regarding Alitalia it's work in progress, I can't say more'.
Lotito was banned from football for two and a half years in 2006 for his part in the 2006 Italian football match-fixing scandal. Lotito got banned again for 10 months due to illegal third party ownership. However it was shortened to 2 months after appeal.
Meanwhile the Italian government is trying to pin the blame for the collapse of the Morandi Bridge in 2018 on the autostrada franchise owner Atlantia (Benetton). This very lucrative franchise is coming up for renewal.
Guess who the Italian government wants to invest in AZ?
In exchange for dropping of charges and renewal of franchise of course.
The next deadline for the end of the bankruptcy proceedings and the repayment of the 900 million Euro 'loan' is 15th June.
Another extension is widely anticipated.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

ticketbuyer wrote:
07 Jun 2019, 23:52
The next deadline for the end of the bankruptcy proceedings and the repayment of the 900 million Euro 'loan' is 15th June.
Another extension is widely anticipated.
And here we go: Italy's Government reportedly plans to further extend the deadline for purchase of Alitalia until late Jun-2019 (Il Messagero/Reuters, 10-Jun-2019).

When will the soap end?
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger »

sn26567 wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 16:16
When will the soap end?
When the EU bureaucrats end their hibernation (winterslaap).

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba »

You have to understand that if the EU kill Alitalia it's a big revolution in Italy, Italians will never but never accept that and like I said before it's a very important tool for the Italian tourism!!!!

And the EU is very week for the moment a lot a predicting the end of the EU...

Even in Flanders 43% voted for parties that are opposed or want to get out of the EU and Schengen it's a bit the same situation in Italy.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger »

lumumba wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 17:46
You have to understand that if the EU kill Alitalia it's a big revolution in Italy, Italians will never but never accept that and like I said before it's a very important tool for the Italian tourism!!!!

And the EU is very week for the moment a lot a predicting the end of the EU...

Even in Flanders 43% voted for parties that are opposed or want to get out of the EU and Schengen it's a bit the same situation in Italy.
Every phrase from your post is nonsense. And sometimes several nonsense in one phrase. Example: the EU is not going "to kill Alitalia". It is European bureaucrats - and not politicians - that will decide, yes or no, if the loans are illegal state aid. They do that based upon a check list with parameters and upon jurisdiction from previous cases. When the decision is "state aid", Italy may protest against that decision and Italy may go into appeal. But Italy will have to accept the decision and request payback from Alitalia.

Regarding your "even in Flanders 43% voted...": your comment proves that you have no idea at all why they voted NVA and VB. And that is all I say, as the webmaster wants to keep party politics away as much as possible.

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lumumba
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba »

Passenger wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 18:06
lumumba wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 17:46
You have to understand that if the EU kill Alitalia it's a big revolution in Italy, Italians will never but never accept that and like I said before it's a very important tool for the Italian tourism!!!!

And the EU is very week for the moment a lot a predicting the end of the EU...

Even in Flanders 43% voted for parties that are opposed or want to get out of the EU and Schengen it's a bit the same situation in Italy.
Every phrase from your post is nonsense. And sometimes several nonsense in one phrase. Example: the EU is not going "to kill Alitalia". It is European bureaucrats - and not politicians - that will decide, yes or no, if the loans are illegal state aid. They do that based upon a check list with parameters and upon jurisdiction from previous cases. When the decision is "state aid", Italy may protest against that decision and Italy may go into appeal. But Italy will have to accept the decision and request payback from Alitalia.

Regarding your "even in Flanders 43% voted...": your comment proves that you have no idea at all why they voted NVA and VB. And that is all I say, as the webmaster wants to keep party politics away as much as possible.
Let's see how the EU will react but in my opinion they will do nothing because the reasons I mention before.

The EU is at the edge they will not take a risk to put more people against them it is and will be a political decision!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by luchtzak »

lumumba wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 17:46
Even in Flanders 43% voted for parties that are opposed or want to get out of the EU and Schengen it's a bit the same situation in Italy.
Lumumba, please no politics in the forums. Figures like the ones you mention don't contribute to the discussion on Alitalia's future.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

Italy’s Industry Minister Luigi Di Maio said the government was in a final rush to orchestrate a rescue of Alitalia, with Ferrovie dello Stato leading the consortium of investors. The deadline will be extended again by 15 days or one month.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

A new deadline has passed, and nothing happened.

Nothing? Maybe a new investor: Avianca Brazil owner Germán Efromovich reportedly commenced negotiating the purchase 30% of Alitalia's shares.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by TLspotting »

Avianca Brazil is bankrupt as well...
Hi. I'm T., spotter and aviation geek. Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

Italy's infrastructure group Atlantia (property of the Benetton family) is considering to buy a 35-40% stake in troubled carrier Alitalia for an investment of around 300 million euros.

Last month, the government postponed for the fourth time a deadline for Ferrovie to present a binding rescue bid for Alitalia, extending it to July 15.

Any other interested candidates? Martini? Fiat? Ferrari? Armani?

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-atlan ... KKCN1U50H4
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by jan_olieslagers »

... Banco Vaticano? ;)

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

sn26567 wrote:
10 Jul 2019, 14:09
Last month, the government postponed for the fourth time a deadline for Ferrovie to present a binding rescue bid for Alitalia, extending it to July 15.
Today is 15 July. A decision is near.

Alitalia administrators received four expressions of interest to join a consortium for the rescue of the ailing Italian airline.

The Alitalia rescue plan would involve the loss of (only) 1,000 jobs, out of the 11,000 workforce.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Boeing767copilot »

Ferrovie dello Stato, the state railway running Alitalia, chose the Atlantia group of the Benetton empire as the final partner to work with the railway, the Italian treasury and Delta Air Lines on trying once again to relaunch the struggling flagship carrier.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 »

Boeing767copilot wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 21:07
Ferrovie dello Stato, the state railway running Alitalia, chose the Atlantia group of the Benetton empire as the final partner to work with the railway, the Italian treasury and Delta Air Lines on trying once again to relaunch the struggling flagship carrier.
... with a cash injection of 1 billion € additional funds !!!

The full story: https://www.thelocal.it/20190716/italy- ... e-lift-off

The (short) Ferrovie dello Stato press release: https://www.fsitaliane.it/content/fsita ... talia.html
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger »

sn26567 wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 22:07
Boeing767copilot wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 21:07
Ferrovie dello Stato, the state railway running Alitalia, chose the Atlantia group of the Benetton empire as the final partner to work with the railway, the Italian treasury and Delta Air Lines on trying once again to relaunch the struggling flagship carrier.
... with a cash injection of 1 billion € additional funds !!!

The full story: https://www.thelocal.it/20190716/italy- ... e-lift-off

The (short) Ferrovie dello Stato press release: https://www.fsitaliane.it/content/fsita ... talia.html
The two most relevant phrases from that article in The Local:
It said it would start on a business plan with the chosen partners "as soon as possible"...
and
No details were given on how the company will be shared...
They're going to make a business plan now, which then has to be signed. And only when that business plan is signed, the investment is sure. Making that business plan will last for months, as no new money will be injected by no one (except by state-owned Ferrovie dello Stato) untill the European Union has decided if Alitalia has to refund the 900M € loan from the Italian State.

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