Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

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Passenger
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 11 Jun 2019, 18:06

lumumba wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 17:46
You have to understand that if the EU kill Alitalia it's a big revolution in Italy, Italians will never but never accept that and like I said before it's a very important tool for the Italian tourism!!!!

And the EU is very week for the moment a lot a predicting the end of the EU...

Even in Flanders 43% voted for parties that are opposed or want to get out of the EU and Schengen it's a bit the same situation in Italy.
Every phrase from your post is nonsense. And sometimes several nonsense in one phrase. Example: the EU is not going "to kill Alitalia". It is European bureaucrats - and not politicians - that will decide, yes or no, if the loans are illegal state aid. They do that based upon a check list with parameters and upon jurisdiction from previous cases. When the decision is "state aid", Italy may protest against that decision and Italy may go into appeal. But Italy will have to accept the decision and request payback from Alitalia.

Regarding your "even in Flanders 43% voted...": your comment proves that you have no idea at all why they voted NVA and VB. And that is all I say, as the webmaster wants to keep party politics away as much as possible.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 11 Jun 2019, 18:35

Passenger wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 18:06
lumumba wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 17:46
You have to understand that if the EU kill Alitalia it's a big revolution in Italy, Italians will never but never accept that and like I said before it's a very important tool for the Italian tourism!!!!

And the EU is very week for the moment a lot a predicting the end of the EU...

Even in Flanders 43% voted for parties that are opposed or want to get out of the EU and Schengen it's a bit the same situation in Italy.
Every phrase from your post is nonsense. And sometimes several nonsense in one phrase. Example: the EU is not going "to kill Alitalia". It is European bureaucrats - and not politicians - that will decide, yes or no, if the loans are illegal state aid. They do that based upon a check list with parameters and upon jurisdiction from previous cases. When the decision is "state aid", Italy may protest against that decision and Italy may go into appeal. But Italy will have to accept the decision and request payback from Alitalia.

Regarding your "even in Flanders 43% voted...": your comment proves that you have no idea at all why they voted NVA and VB. And that is all I say, as the webmaster wants to keep party politics away as much as possible.
Let's see how the EU will react but in my opinion they will do nothing because the reasons I mention before.

The EU is at the edge they will not take a risk to put more people against them it is and will be a political decision!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by luchtzak » 11 Jun 2019, 19:38

lumumba wrote:
11 Jun 2019, 17:46
Even in Flanders 43% voted for parties that are opposed or want to get out of the EU and Schengen it's a bit the same situation in Italy.
Lumumba, please no politics in the forums. Figures like the ones you mention don't contribute to the discussion on Alitalia's future.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 13 Jun 2019, 12:21

Italy’s Industry Minister Luigi Di Maio said the government was in a final rush to orchestrate a rescue of Alitalia, with Ferrovie dello Stato leading the consortium of investors. The deadline will be extended again by 15 days or one month.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 02 Jul 2019, 16:31

A new deadline has passed, and nothing happened.

Nothing? Maybe a new investor: Avianca Brazil owner Germán Efromovich reportedly commenced negotiating the purchase 30% of Alitalia's shares.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by TLspotting » 04 Jul 2019, 15:09

Avianca Brazil is bankrupt as well...
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Ansett » 04 Jul 2019, 17:19

Just to cheer this thread up a bit : "like most Italian dramas, it should end with a happy wedding, a party and lot's of wine, drinking and singing"....(I hope :) )

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 10 Jul 2019, 14:09

Italy's infrastructure group Atlantia (property of the Benetton family) is considering to buy a 35-40% stake in troubled carrier Alitalia for an investment of around 300 million euros.

Last month, the government postponed for the fourth time a deadline for Ferrovie to present a binding rescue bid for Alitalia, extending it to July 15.

Any other interested candidates? Martini? Fiat? Ferrari? Armani?

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-atlan ... KKCN1U50H4
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 10 Jul 2019, 14:48

... Banco Vaticano? ;)

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 15 Jul 2019, 21:19

sn26567 wrote:
10 Jul 2019, 14:09
Last month, the government postponed for the fourth time a deadline for Ferrovie to present a binding rescue bid for Alitalia, extending it to July 15.
Today is 15 July. A decision is near.

Alitalia administrators received four expressions of interest to join a consortium for the rescue of the ailing Italian airline.

The Alitalia rescue plan would involve the loss of (only) 1,000 jobs, out of the 11,000 workforce.
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Boeing767copilot » 16 Jul 2019, 21:07

Ferrovie dello Stato, the state railway running Alitalia, chose the Atlantia group of the Benetton empire as the final partner to work with the railway, the Italian treasury and Delta Air Lines on trying once again to relaunch the struggling flagship carrier.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 16 Jul 2019, 22:07

Boeing767copilot wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 21:07
Ferrovie dello Stato, the state railway running Alitalia, chose the Atlantia group of the Benetton empire as the final partner to work with the railway, the Italian treasury and Delta Air Lines on trying once again to relaunch the struggling flagship carrier.
... with a cash injection of 1 billion € additional funds !!!

The full story: https://www.thelocal.it/20190716/italy- ... e-lift-off

The (short) Ferrovie dello Stato press release: https://www.fsitaliane.it/content/fsita ... talia.html
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 16 Jul 2019, 23:08

sn26567 wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 22:07
Boeing767copilot wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 21:07
Ferrovie dello Stato, the state railway running Alitalia, chose the Atlantia group of the Benetton empire as the final partner to work with the railway, the Italian treasury and Delta Air Lines on trying once again to relaunch the struggling flagship carrier.
... with a cash injection of 1 billion € additional funds !!!

The full story: https://www.thelocal.it/20190716/italy- ... e-lift-off

The (short) Ferrovie dello Stato press release: https://www.fsitaliane.it/content/fsita ... talia.html
The two most relevant phrases from that article in The Local:
It said it would start on a business plan with the chosen partners "as soon as possible"...
and
No details were given on how the company will be shared...
They're going to make a business plan now, which then has to be signed. And only when that business plan is signed, the investment is sure. Making that business plan will last for months, as no new money will be injected by no one (except by state-owned Ferrovie dello Stato) untill the European Union has decided if Alitalia has to refund the 900M € loan from the Italian State.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by convair » 16 Jul 2019, 23:42

After reading the (very interesting) "full story", I have the strong impression that the fascinating Alitalia saga is far from over!
This thread goes back to 2012 and it was already then an old Dallas-like story!
Last edited by convair on 17 Jul 2019, 00:55, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 16 Jul 2019, 23:47

Passenger wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 23:08
sn26567 wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 22:07
Boeing767copilot wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 21:07
Ferrovie dello Stato, the state railway running Alitalia, chose the Atlantia group of the Benetton empire as the final partner to work with the railway, the Italian treasury and Delta Air Lines on trying once again to relaunch the struggling flagship carrier.
... with a cash injection of 1 billion € additional funds !!!

The full story: https://www.thelocal.it/20190716/italy- ... e-lift-off

The (short) Ferrovie dello Stato press release: https://www.fsitaliane.it/content/fsita ... talia.html
The two most relevant phrases from that article in The Local:
It said it would start on a business plan with the chosen partners "as soon as possible"...
and
No details were given on how the company will be shared...
They're going to make a business plan now, which then has to be signed. And only when that business plan is signed, the investment is sure. Making that business plan will last for months, as no new money will be injected by no one (except by state-owned Ferrovie dello Stato) untill the European Union has decided if Alitalia has to refund the 900M € loan from the Italian State.
Hey Passenger
You will see the E.U will do nothing I take the bet with you?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 18 Jul 2019, 16:59

And here we go again: take a deep breath!

The Italian government has set a new September 15 deadline for a consortium led by railways group Ferrovie dello Stato to present a binding offer for troubled carrier Alitalia.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alit ... SKCN1UC158
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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by jan_olieslagers » 18 Jul 2019, 17:05

... and they could and can and will go on till eternity. As long as they're allowed to. Where is Mr. Europe? If the European rules can really be flouted so lightly, for so many years, then why do we have this "Europe" at all? Where is the "level playing ground" that was promised?

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by lumumba » 18 Jul 2019, 17:22

jan_olieslagers wrote:
18 Jul 2019, 17:05
... and they could and can and will go on till eternity. As long as they're allowed to. Where is Mr. Europe? If the European rules can really be flouted so lightly, for so many years, then why do we have this "Europe" at all? Where is the "level playing ground" that was promised?
Anyway the E.U has to change it become a business agreement nothing more we need a political and military E.U that care for the people not for the business.
But I'm going out of topic here....
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by Passenger » 18 Jul 2019, 17:44

sn26567 wrote:
18 Jul 2019, 16:59
And here we go again: take a deep breath! The Italian government has set a new September 15 deadline for a consortium led by railways group Ferrovie dello Stato to present a binding offer for troubled carrier Alitalia.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alit ... SKCN1UC158
Well André, I'm not surprised:
Passenger wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 23:08
They're going to make a business plan now, which then has to be signed. And only when that business plan is signed, the investment is sure. Making that business plan will last for months, and no new money will be injected by no one (except by state-owned Ferrovie dello Stato) untill the European Union has decided if Alitalia has to refund the 900M € loan from the Italian State.
If the EU hasn't ruled by then 15th Sept, no one will sign a binding then. When the EU decides that the 900M € is state aid, Alitalia must refund it: 900 + intrests = 1 billion! No one can make a decent business plan with such Swoard of Damocles above their heads. Hence the "binding offer" will include the condition that the EU accepts the 900M as a loan. Hence the Italian government will then has to conclude that it received no binding offer by 15th Sept, leaving Italy c.q. Ferrovie dello Stato no other option then to "invest" another bunch of taxpayers money...

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Re: Alitalia near bankruptcy. Can it be saved?

Post by sn26567 » 02 Sep 2019, 23:08

You thought the story would be over soon? You will be disappointed: Alitalia has delayed its binding agreement with Delta and Atlantia until 30 September 2019, due to changes within the Italian government.

Until the next postponement...
André
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