Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same day

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sn26567
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Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same day

Post by sn26567 »

Ryanair emergency landings 'followed procedure'

Ryanair says it was following procedure when three of its pilots requested emergency landings in the Spanish city of Valencia. The Spanish authorities opened an investigation into the airline following the incidents on 26 July.

The pilots told aviation officials that they needed to land immediately because they were running low on fuel. They had been diverted from Madrid due to bad weather, and had been circling above Valencia for about an hour. The pilots had been asked to circle above Valencia because thunderstorms in Madrid prevented them form landing there as planned on July 26.

After 50 minutes, 68 minutes and 69 minutes respectively, the pilots had asked to land as they were reaching their reserve fuel levels. All three planes had followed guidelines set out by Boeing and the European Aviation Safety Agency, and had landed with 30 minutes of reserve fuel left, said a Ryanair spokesman.

More details from BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe- ... WEET195741
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sdbelgium
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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by sdbelgium »

And the Spanish consumer organisations want a three year ban + 4,5 million euro fine for Ryanair because they followed the procedure and landed with minimum reserve fuel, AFTER being put in a hold for over an hour AFTER they diverted from their destination? I fail to understand why... Great ATC cooperation by the way, I must say!

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earthman
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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by earthman »

The media are having a field day! I already saw an article in a Polish newspaper stating how Ryanair forces their pilots to tank barely enough fuel to reach their destination, and how their planes land with only minutes worth of fuel left, forcing emergency landing procedures!

Too lazy to translate, the google translation of the article is almost entirely acceptable though.

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earthman
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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by earthman »

The article refers to another (much longer) article in another Polish newspaper. That one in turn refers to some Irish newspaper, but the main point seems to be that Ryanair wants their pilots to take no more than 300kg of extra fuel, which is enough for 7 minutes on a 737, whereas traditional airlines are said to take on enough extra fuel for 30 minutes.

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earthman
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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by earthman »

I think Ryanair should now start selling jerrycans of fuel before take-off, so anxious passengers can buy one and give it to the staff so they can pour it into the plane's tanks, just to make sure they will arrive at their destination.

In fact, I suggest Ryanair take this fuel from the plane's tanks after landing, then sell that very same fuel to the passengers, and get it back again for free.

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by sean1982 »

Seriously? All flightplan fuel calculations are as per EASA rules and the final decision lies with the captain to take more, without any restrictions! These aircraft were 1h10 min longer in the air than planned, no wonder they were running low on fuel. If there is anyone to blame in this case it is the (as usual very ineficient) spanish ATC!!

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by convair »

It happened to an SN flight too on that same day and same route: see my post under "abnormalities...."

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Striking, though, that it does happen to no less than three planes of one carrier, and we hear of no other carriers affected. Was this airline singled out by ATC, or were their reserves tighter than others' ?

[[edit:]] previous posting went unnoticed. Niet, dus.

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by Zorba »

sean1982 wrote:If there is anyone to blame in this case it is the (as usual very ineficient) spanish ATC!!
We don't know what happened exactly. Although Spanish ATC might not be very efficient, do you know how weather can mess up air traffic? If no take of or landings are allowed (which is the decision of the airport, not ATC) you put aircraft in the holding, period. If that takes 10 minutes or 2 hours, how is that the fault of ATC?
Tot hier en verder

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by ezis »

jan_olieslagers wrote:were their reserves tighter than others' ?
If I've been reading those articles (BBC, deMorgen, etc) correctly, the Ryanair planes landed with priority because their remaining fuel was indeed more problematic. If so, it feels like rewarding them for doing the
absolute minimum as required by law.

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by sdbelgium »

ezis wrote:If so, it feels like rewarding them for doing the
absolute minimum as required by law.
So you suggest letting them crash, since they took only what is legally required (as do most of the airlines nowadays)?

Corrected for BB code, misquote

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by ezis »

Where did I say that?
Or is this your exaggeration a way to dismiss my remark without bringing arguments?

It's unfair towards all those airlines who probably had a bit more in their tank left, so an extra cost to their landing fee seems more fair

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Isn't this the old Ryanair debate? As I understand it - and I am far from an expert on commercial air transport - this company has made it their business model to operate as close as possible to the limits of whatever rules or laws they come upon (plus some "secondary" sources of revenue). The law is what it is, and as long as it is respected there can be no blame. I have every confidence the pilots did everything to respect both their company guidelines and all applicable legislation.
Last edited by jan_olieslagers on 15 Aug 2012, 20:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by sdbelgium »

ezis wrote:Or is this your exaggeration a way to dismiss my remark without bringing arguments?
Not at all, sir. I'm simply saying there is not one word being said about the numerous other airlines (including our own Brussels Airlines, by the way) diverting to VLC, up to the point where VLC was oversaturated and aircraft had to fly all the way to BCN! What about the KLM flight that arrived on the approach frequency stating they had only 5 minutes left of extra fuel before they needed to divert as well? Let's all ban KLM from flying in Spain for the next three years. Maybe we can even make it the whole continent, as they are obviously endangering people's lives here! How about the 'home' carriers Iberia, Air Europa and Vueling (yes, all three!), who had their aircraft declaring fuel emergencies while diverting to Valencia as well?

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by ezis »

sdbelgium wrote:What about the KLM flight that arrived on the approach frequency stating they had only 5 minutes left of extra fuel before they needed to divert as well? Let's all ban KLM from flying in Spain for the next three years.
1. If you would be so kind to provide me with the article, then we could talk along
2. Where the hell did I say there should be a 3 years ban? I said I thought additional landing fees would be approriate.

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by fcw »

MAD was closed because of massive thunderstorms. Lots of aircraft diverting to VLC, causing holding above VLC. A diverting Lan Chile reported problems with one of their engines and requested priority. VLC app told all aircraft in the hold to hold for an additional 10-20 min till Lan was on the ground. Two FR's would have landed with less than final reserve (30min) if they had to hold an additional 20 min so they legaly had to declare emergency.

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by sdbelgium »

ezis wrote:1. If you would be so kind to provide me with the article, then we could talk along
That's the problem right there. There are no articles, because nobody cares to write about an SN diversion, let alone some Iberia flights diverting in their own country. And quite right so, too. Those passengers did not end up where they were supposed to be, agreed. But safety was never an issue and all the aircraft landed with more than reserve fuel in the tanks, so frankly this was just an operational disruption. It happens all the time when the weather is sh1te...

On the other hand, we have the Ryanair bashing newspapers (Spanish ones even more keen on RYR news than others) that make this thing in yet another RYR vs. not-RYR debate... Why all the articles about RYR aircraft? I have no idea whatsoever. They must be paying for all this publicity!

:lol:
ezis wrote:2. Where the hell did I say there should be a 3 years ban? I said I thought additional landing fees would be approriate.
Not you, just going by another article (which I can't seem to find back at this time) stating that a Spanish consumer organisation was demanding a 3 year ban to fly into Spain.

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by ezis »

sdbelgium wrote:
ezis wrote:1. If you would be so kind to provide me with the article, then we could talk along
That's the problem right there. There are no articles,
Well, if I got no proof whatsoever, I'd perhaps better suppose it didn't happen. In that case this is hear say.
There must be proof somewhere if this occured.

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by andorra-airport »

@ ezis

-cough- PPRuNe, the source of information for many -cough-

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Re: Three Ryanair "emergency" landings in Valencia on same d

Post by ezis »

andorra-airport wrote:@ ezis

-cough- PPRuNe, the source of information for many -cough-
Thx!

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