Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sn26567 » 14 Jul 2019, 16:11

American and United extend the removal of their 737MAX aircraft from their schedules until 2 November.
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Charlie Roy » 15 Jul 2019, 00:02

Bloomberg reporting that MCAS software was developed and tested by low paid developers in India :?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -engineers

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by TLspotting » 15 Jul 2019, 08:19

I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sn26567 » 15 Jul 2019, 09:02

TLspotting wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 08:19
This is misleading for the general public, as only specialists and Avgeeks will know it's a MAX with a sad history.
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Konus » 15 Jul 2019, 09:08

Boeing 737-8200 wil mean the 200 seat variant of the Boeing 737-8 MAX for Ryanair only

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by TLspotting » 15 Jul 2019, 09:09

Konus wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:08
Boeing 737-8200 wil mean the 200 seat variant of the Boeing 737-8 MAX for Ryanair only
Quite surprising that Southwest hasn't bought any yet...
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by RoMax » 15 Jul 2019, 12:13

TLspotting wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:09
Konus wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:08
Boeing 737-8200 wil mean the 200 seat variant of the Boeing 737-8 MAX for Ryanair only
Quite surprising that Southwest hasn't bought any yet...
Because Southwest simply doesn't have very high density cabins. They are single class and with slim seats etc, but aside from that they are roomier in seat pitch than the back of the cabin of the US legacy carriers (who on the other hand have 'first' and rows with extra leg room too). Both their 737-800's and MAX 8's have 'just' 175 seats, which is not a lot for a single class cabin.

Southwest might be the mother of all LCC's, it doesn't have the LCC type of service as we know in Europe or like the ULCC's in the US.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Passenger » 15 Jul 2019, 13:49

sn26567 wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 09:02
TLspotting wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 08:19
This is misleading for the general public, as only specialists and Avgeeks will know it's a MAX with a sad history.
Indeed. There is no aircraft model Boeing 737-8200: the aircraft type is 737 MAX 8. The number of seats is irrelevant information for passengers. Adding the seat pitch or the number of toilets would be more relevant info for passengers...
https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737ma ... ical-specs

"737-8200" is misleading indeed - and thus forbitten in Belgium by the Wetboek Economisch Recht / Code de Drot Economique (28/02/2013):

"...Als misleidend wordt beschouwd een handelspraktijk die gepaard gaat met onjuiste informatie en derhalve op onwaarheden berust of, zelfs als de informatie feitelijk correct is, de gemiddelde consument op enigerlei wijze, inclusief door de algemene presentatie, bedriegt of kan bedriegen ten aanzien van een of meer van de volgende elementen, en de gemiddelde consument er zowel in het ene als in het andere geval toe brengt of kan brengen een besluit over een transactie te nemen dat hij anders niet had genomen..."

...Une pratique commerciale est réputée trompeuse si elle contient des informations fausses et qu'elle est donc mensongère ou que, d'une manière quelconque, y compris par sa présentation générale, elle induit ou est susceptible d'induire en erreur le consommateur moyen en ce qui concerne un ou plusieurs des éléments suivants, même si les informations présentées sont factuellement correctes, et que, dans un cas comme dans l'autre, elle l'amène ou est susceptible de l'amener à prendre une décision commerciale qu'il n'aurait pas prise autrement..."

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by KriVa » 15 Jul 2019, 14:44

Except Boeing calls it the 737-8-200 as well, as per the table on their website and the Type Certificate Data Sheet.
“MAX” is nothing more than a marketing name, it’s not part of the ‘technical’ name used for the aircraft.
As such, Ryanair isn’t strictly lying, their aircraft are indeed 737-8200 or, if you want to be really pedantic, 737-8-200. I doubt a missing hyphen would be seen as misleading.
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Passenger » 15 Jul 2019, 15:28

KriVa wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 14:44
Except Boeing calls it the 737-8-200 as well, as per the table on their website and the Type Certificate Data Sheet.
“MAX” is nothing more than a marketing name, it’s not part of the ‘technical’ name used for the aircraft.
As such, Ryanair isn’t strictly lying, their aircraft are indeed 737-8200 or, if you want to be really pedantic, 737-8-200. I doubt a missing hyphen would be seen as misleading.
Press release from Boeing before the two crashes:

Boeing Launches 737 MAX 200 with Ryanair.

Boeing launched the newest member of the 737 MAX family with a commitment from Ryanair for 100 airplanes. Europe’s leading low-cost carrier will be the first airline to operate the 737 MAX 200, a variant based on the successful 737 MAX 8 that can accommodate up to 200 seats, increasing revenue potential and providing customers up to 20 percent better fuel efficiency per seat than today’s most efficient single-aisle airplanes.

Boeing developed the 737 MAX 200 in response to the needs of the fast growing low-cost sector, which is forecasted to account for 35 percent of single-aisle airline capacity by 2033. While the heart of the single-aisle market will remain at 160 seats, the 737 MAX 200 will provide carriers like Ryanair with up to 11 more seats of potential revenue and up to 5 percent lower operating costs than the 737 MAX 8, driving economic growth and increasing access to air travel.

With the addition of the 737 MAX 200, the 737 MAX family offers the right capacity to meet the needs across the single-aisle market.

https://www.boeing.com/commercial/custo ... anair.page

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by KriVa » 15 Jul 2019, 15:49

Which only reinforces my point that “MAX” is a commercial name, and not a technical name. Hence the term “MAX” being in the press release, and not in the technical documentation such as the Type Certificate Data Sheet. (Except when used as a referral name.)
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by cathay belgium » 15 Jul 2019, 16:10

Hi,

Well Max or no Max...thé plane is not a MAX at all, instead the ongoing failure saga is 'the' max for avgeeks and airbus ;) - and US parking spots - builder enterprises in Washington state :)
When will it fly anyway... ?
2020 at least... For now...

Instead of a name change they better opt for change in the design itself...

What a disaster....


CXB !
New types planned for 2019 : A223
New types flown : AN24,AW139,B737MAX8,B763nonER,EMB110 Bandeirante, Shorts360,Autogire MTOsport2010

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Passenger » 15 Jul 2019, 16:18

KriVa wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 15:49
Which only reinforces my point that “MAX” is a commercial name, and not a technical name...
So they certainly have to use "737 MAX 8" in commercial communication to the public.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sean1982 » 16 Jul 2019, 08:29

Passenger wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 16:18
KriVa wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 15:49
Which only reinforces my point that “MAX” is a commercial name, and not a technical name...
So they certainly have to use "737 MAX 8" in commercial communication to the public.
Actually, No They dont, they can even call it a “B7M8” on the website/ticket if they want. They also are not legally obliged to mention any type name on the side of the plane. Simply removing it is also a solution. Like I said in another post, Joe public would probably think they’re on a A350 by then.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Passenger » 16 Jul 2019, 09:54

sean1982 wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 08:29
Passenger wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 16:18
KriVa wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 15:49
Which only reinforces my point that “MAX” is a commercial name, and not a technical name...
So they certainly have to use "737 MAX 8" in commercial communication to the public.
Actually, No They dont, they can even call it a “B7M8” on the website/ticket if they want. They also are not legally obliged to mention any type name on the side of the plane. Simply removing it is also a solution. Like I said in another post, Joe public would probably think they’re on a A350 by then.
Airlines are indeed not legally obliged to mention the aircraft model. EU-Regulation 2111/2005 only states that the name of the flight operator has to be advised.

But if/when an airline announces an aircraft type, that must be the correct one. By voluntary deleting "MAX" from the aircraft type, Ryanair is misleading the passengers. And that is legally forbitten.

"What is misleading information?" Prof. em. Karel De Meulemeester made the following description for us: "if the passengers would not have booked their flight or voyage, if they would have known it". And contrary to your disdainful "Joe public would think they're on a A350", most Joe publics are familiar with the 737 MAX safety issue.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by 737MAX » 16 Jul 2019, 11:10

B737 is the aircraft type. Point.
They are not lying about anything, that B737 is a B737-8-200.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sean1982 » 16 Jul 2019, 11:20

Passenger wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 09:54
sean1982 wrote:
16 Jul 2019, 08:29
Passenger wrote:
15 Jul 2019, 16:18

So they certainly have to use "737 MAX 8" in commercial communication to the public.
Actually, No They dont, they can even call it a “B7M8” on the website/ticket if they want. They also are not legally obliged to mention any type name on the side of the plane. Simply removing it is also a solution. Like I said in another post, Joe public would probably think they’re on a A350 by then.
Airlines are indeed not legally obliged to mention the aircraft model. EU-Regulation 2111/2005 only states that the name of the flight operator has to be advised.

But if/when an airline announces an aircraft type, that must be the correct one. By voluntary deleting "MAX" from the aircraft type, Ryanair is misleading the passengers. And that is legally forbitten.

"What is misleading information?" Prof. em. Karel De Meulemeester made the following description for us: "if the passengers would not have booked their flight or voyage, if they would have known it". And contrary to your disdainful "Joe public would think they're on a A350", most Joe publics are familiar with the 737 MAX safety issue.
Disdainful Joe Public :lol:

I got asked on the jumbo hundreds of times if they were on the “dreamairliner”. I go with above post of 737MAX. The rest is your usual nonsense drivel

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by 737MAX » 16 Jul 2019, 11:39

Yup indeed Sean.

The only official designation of the 737 "MAX" is B737-X (X = 7, 8, 9 or soon 10). It is exactly the same as blaming an airline for removing "Dreamliner" next to "B787" on an aircraft nose... :roll:

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sn26567 » 16 Jul 2019, 21:25

Boeing and Southwest Airlines are accused of conspiring to hide a design flaw in the B737 MAX jet, alleges a new lawsuit filed against the company. They both deny the claims.

Belavia (Belarus), together with lessors, are looking at compensation for losses suffered due to the disruption of the delivery of two B737 MAX.

Boeing has lost US$36 billion in market value since the onset of the B737 MAX debacle—far more than it is likely to spend in compensation, fixes and fines. But it sought to reassure aircraft financing and leasing firms that it is working “tirelessly” to get its B737 MAX planes back in the air after the grounding earlier this year.
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Passenger » 19 Jul 2019, 09:36

In depth article on Skift.com: Should Boeing change the name of the 737 MAX to put passengers at ease?

Introduction paragraph: "...Many airline industry insiders say they expect passengers will fly the MAX when it returns to service, provided the price is right. But branding and marketing experts see it differently. Many of them say Boeing must engage in a full-scale rebranding effort to make passengers comfortable enough to fly..."

https://skift.com/2019/07/18/should-boe ... s-at-ease/
(free access)

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