Boeing 737 (MAX) news

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Bracebrace
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Bracebrace » 28 Apr 2019, 15:07

Passenger wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 14:21
My above quote is one of the last phrases from Geert Noels' article, and the quote is an excellent summary from his analysis that the Boeing 737 MAX is an unsafe aircraft, but that huge economical interests are trying to overrule that. On top, Geert Noels apparently wrote his article before whistleblowers from inside Boeing came up with an additional problem (wiring damage to the AoA related wiring, see AvHerald.com a.o.).
Er werd beslist de motoren nog verder naar voren te monteren om genoeg grondruimte te behouden. Maar dat maakte het toestel inherent instabiel, vooral bij het opstijgen.

Unfortunately this single phrase shows that Mr Noels does not know the problem, and does not know what he is talking about. MCAS does not work with flaps out, so... takeoff phase? The 737 is perfectly stable. MCAS influences stick force stability in high AOA with flaps up.

If you follow his reasoning, Geert should not be on any 737-3/-4/-5/-6/-7/-8/-9/-BBJ/-MAX aircraft without feeling unsafe.

As much as respect Geert Noels for his economical knowledge, he should be aware he has limited knowledge in this subject. Next he can write pedagogic articles because he has 2 children...?
Last edited by Bracebrace on 28 Apr 2019, 16:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sn26567 » 28 Apr 2019, 15:16

American Airlines Group cut its 2019 profit forecast, blaming an estimated US$350 million hit from the grounding of B737 MAX planes, but said it was confident that the jets would start flying again before mid-August 2019.
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sn26567 » 28 Apr 2019, 16:18

Passenger wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 12:31
"The Boeing 737 MAX is an unstable aircraft that should never be allowed to fly again":

analysis from Geert Noels (Econopolis), one of Belgium's leading economists:

https://www.tijd.be/opinie/column/leer- ... 21323.html
And Geert Noels enters into a discussion on Twitter with Andre Berger, the chief pilot of TUI fly Belgium and a staunch defender of the 737 MAX
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Passenger » 28 Apr 2019, 21:20

Bracebrace wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 15:07
Er werd beslist de motoren nog verder naar voren te monteren om genoeg grondruimte te behouden. Maar dat maakte het toestel inherent instabiel, vooral bij het opstijgen.
Unfortunately this single phrase shows that Mr Noels does not know the problem, and does not know what he is talking about. MCAS does not work with flaps out, so... takeoff phase? The 737 is perfectly stable. MCAS influences stick force stability in high AOA with flaps up.
Read the article please. For the above remark, Geert Noels was not referring to the 737 MAX, but to the 737 Classic (-300, -400 and -500. Production as from 1984).

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Bracebrace » 28 Apr 2019, 22:09

Passenger wrote:
28 Apr 2019, 21:20
Read the article please. For the above remark, Geert Noels was not referring to the 737 MAX, but to the 737 Classic (-300, -400 and -500. Production as from 1984).
I did read the article and yes he is referring to the MAX. Before the quoted remark he refers to "afplatting" as not enough (which happened on the "classic"). In the quote he refers to engines that are placed "even further up front", and as a solution he refers to a device that pushes the nose down, corrections through software and directly to the Ethiopian crash.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Passenger » 28 Apr 2019, 23:35

This is a summary of what Geert Noels wrote:
Geert Noels' full opinion article on tijd.be =
https://www.tijd.be/opinie/column/leer- ... 21323.html

346 people have died because of a bad design, too much confidence in software and failing authorities. We can only hope that other airlines, other branches and the whole economy learn from it.

The 737 Original (737-100 and 737-200) had small engines under its wings. The 737 Classic (300, 400, 500) had larger engines that had to be moved forward. And thus flattened. For next 737 models, Boeing adapted the “grandfather clause”: because there were not too many changes to the previous model, Boeing needed just a quick visit from the regulator.

But meanwhile, Airbus became a real competitor. Boeing attacked Airbus with the 737, and that pressure to improve performances pushed Boeing over an acceptable limit. For the 737 MAX, an AoA came to rescue, but pilots where not trained enough. And worse: even well trained pilots, like the Ethiopian crew, lost controls.

What do we have to learn from the 737 Max debackle?

1. A company and its regulator should not be too close.
2. Bad hardware cannot be solved with software.
3. Artificial Intelligence (A.I.) hamper a clean view for the risk of “garbage in, garbage out”. There is a gap between A.I.-whizzkids and those working on the field (including pilots).
4. The 737 success didn’t stimulate real innovation.
5. People are no machine, and machine are not allways more clever then people. Boeing thaught they had made a product that couldn’t fail.

The 737 MAX has a structural design error. It’s an unstable aircraft that should be grounded forever. Yet I think that the FAA will soon give the green light because new software is supposed to compensate bad software. I’m a pilot but I won’t be a passenger on the 737 MAX. But I’m also an economist, and I also realize that I’m a passenger on an inherently unstable economic system.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sn-remember » 29 Apr 2019, 23:24

"Some pilots have said 15min of MCAS training is plenty, noting their familiarity with the 737 Max’s systems. Sources have also noted the complex logistics of running thousands of pilots through the few 737 Max simulators available"
So a simple laptop training will do for the moment, “longer term, we're also deploying training packages and additional educational materials,” Muilenburg said.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 37-457763/

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by TLspotting » 30 Apr 2019, 19:41

FAA is inviting top civil aviation officials from around the world to a 23 May 2019 meeting to discuss the now-grounded B737 MAX.

Boeing says effort to return the B737 MAX to service has not affected B777X development or potential NMA development.

FlyDubai may replace some B737 MAX on order with A320neos, says chairman Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum, as the MAX grounding has cost the airline a “lot of profitability”.

FlyEgypt dropped its planned summer 2019 flights from Hurghada to Rostock-Laage, due to the B737 MAX grounding.

Southwest Airlines and the FAA were unaware that a standard safety feature, designed to warn pilots about malfunctioning sensors, on B737 MAX jets was turned off when Southwest began flying the model in 2017.
Southwest Airlines expects it will take a month to get all 34 B737 MAX to relaunch and back in service once the aircraft is cleared for operations.

United Airlines expects to cancel about 900 flights in May 2019 and around 130 in April due to the grounding of B737 MAX jets.

Xiamen Airlines is looking to lease two B757s it recently sold and bring them back into service during summer 2019 season, amid B737 MAX grounding.

Air Canada has further adjusted its schedule through to 01 August 2019 die to B737 MAX grounding.

American Airlines Group cut its 2019 profit forecast, blaming an estimated US$350 million hit from the grounding of B737 MAX planes, but said it was confident that the jets would start flying again before mid-August 2019.

Southwest Airlines said the grounding of its B737 MAX will cut flight-capacity growth and push up costs in the coming months. The carrier said it expects to expand its flight capacity by between 2% and 3% in 2019.
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by TLspotting » 30 Apr 2019, 21:27

Boeing says it included the disagree alert as a standard feature on the MAX, although this alert has not been considered a safety feature on airplanes and is not necessary for the safe operation of the airplane.

GE added Boeing’s B737 MAX as “a new risk” in its quarterly earnings report, citing production of engines for the planes and its ownership of several of the aircraft for its leasing business.
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sn26567 » 01 May 2019, 16:05

Emirates boss looking at possible Airbus option for its partner airline after Boeing 737 Max grounding
  • Emirates regional partner airline, Flydubai, currently has more than 100 737 Max 8 planes on order.
  • Ahmed bin Saeed Al Maktoum said he needed to look at options if the Max orders could not be fulfilled.
  • Emirates has said growth is being hampered by political tensions around the world.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/29/emirate ... nding.html
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sn26567 » 01 May 2019, 16:09

TLspotting wrote:
30 Apr 2019, 21:27
Boeing says it included the disagree alert as a standard feature on the MAX, although this alert has not been considered a safety feature on airplanes and is not necessary for the safe operation of the airplane.
Image
Source: Airways Magazine
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sn26567 » 01 May 2019, 16:12

Airlines instructed to inspect some Boeing 737 Max engines after Southwest emergency landing

In recent weeks, engine maker CFM instructed several airlines including American and Southwest to inspect a total of 25 engines on their grounded Boeing 737 Max fleets. The order follows a March 26 incident involving a Southwest Airlines 737 Max 8 plane where pilots had to shut down an engine shortly after taking off from the Orlando International Airport on a ferry flight to Victorville.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-737 ... -aircraft/
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Passenger » 01 May 2019, 17:17

TLspotting wrote:
30 Apr 2019, 19:41
FAA is inviting top civil aviation officials from around the world to a 23 May 2019 meeting to discuss the now-grounded B737 MAX.
Simon Hradecky, editor The Aviation Herald, has just posted an update on this matter:

"The FAA via their Flight Standardization Board (FSB) had invited for comments until April 30th 2019 regarding their draft for certification of the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft (and differences to Boeing 737 aircraft in general)... In order to ensure, that the questions not only reach the FAA press office (and may perhaps not make their way further to the relevant decision makers within the FAA for possible consideration), we decided to also submit our questions as comment to that draft in order to ensure, the FSB at least gets to know the questions (and thoughts behind them) for possible consideration. Here is the quote of our submission to the FSB transmitted on April 25th 2019:
...
Then follows a list with 25 remarks or questions, like the following:
...
22 - How does the design of the MCAS, the ADIRU, the AoA, the stickshaker and the TRIM CUTOUT switches match the requirements of CRM (Cockpit Resource Management), I wrote in our editorial at : "Over the more than 100 years of aviation and aircraft accident investigations one of the principles deemed most important today emerged: the Cockpit Resource Management (CRM). The principle that everybody in the cockpit as well as anything in the cockpit should ensure that all available resources in the cockpit are being used. Is it thus not a gross violation of the CRM, committed already by the designers of the aircraft, when a system does not take a second available resource into account, like the right hand AoA? How can it be argued to be in compliance with CRM when a crew can not de-activate a stick shaker that has been identified to operate erroneously, except by pulling the circuit breaker? How can it be argued, that other than on NG aircraft, where the TRIM CUTOUT switches disable automatic trim inputs and electrical manual trim inputs separately, either of the TRIM CUTOUT switches disables ALL electrical trim inputs, both manual and automatic ones depriving the crew of possibly still well functioning, available and needed resources?"

Full story:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4c534c4a/0052&opt=0

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by Acid-drop » 02 May 2019, 10:24

My messages reflect my personal opinion which may be different than yours. I beleive a forum is made to create a debate so I encourage people to express themselves, the way they want, with the ideas they want. I expect the same understanding in return.

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by TLspotting » 04 May 2019, 20:46

WestJet suspends :
Halifax - Paris CDG, as from 3 June until 2 August
Edmonton - Ottawa, as from 3 June until 3 July
Toronto - Kelowna, as from 3 June until 27 June
Vancouver - Regina, as from 3 June until 3 July.
I'm Thibault Lapers, spotter in Belgium for now 3 years, but not yet across the world and a huuuuuge aviation geek ! Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sn26567 » 06 May 2019, 20:49

Boeing knew of a software error that prevented the correct functioning of a safety alert system on the B737 MAX for a year before disclosing the problem to regulators and airlines, says a report published in The Wall Street Journal.

Boeing limited the role of its own pilots in the final stages of developing the B737 MAX flight-control system implicated in two fatal crashes, departing from a longstanding practice of seeking their detailed input.

Bad days for Boeing...
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by luchtzak » 07 May 2019, 07:55


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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by cathay belgium » 07 May 2019, 09:22

Hi,

With all respect to André Berger.. but in light of the last news we heard of Boeing, he surely is promoting his new fleet ( it is needed because who want to fly that plane now anyway )...
Such messages make me laugh and hoped he was a bit smarter.
Reads to me as TUI is just like Boeing thinking of money above safety.
Why not awaiting real results on thé facts ?
Poor post...

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New types planned for 2019 : A223,AN24
New types flown : AW139,B737MAX8,B763nonER

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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by sn26567 » 07 May 2019, 11:35

cathay belgium wrote:
07 May 2019, 09:22
Hi,

With all respect to André Berger.. but in light of the last news we heard of Boeing, he surely is promoting his new fleet ( it is needed because who want to fly that plane now anyway )...
Such messages make me laugh and hoped he was a bit smarter.
Reads to me as TUI is just like Boeing thinking of money above safety.
Why not awaiting real results on thé facts ?
Poor post...

CXB
Exactly my opinion. Andre Berger has shown in the past he was a staunch supporter of the 737 MAX, no matter what happened. Has this aeroplane received the MCAS software corrections? If not, you won't see me on it. If yes, I would first wait to have it validated by FAA, or better, by EASA, knowing the links between Boeing and FAA.
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Re: Boeing 737 (MAX) news

Post by 737MAX » 07 May 2019, 11:39

sn26567 wrote:
07 May 2019, 11:35

Exactly my opinion. Andre Berger has shown in the past he was a staunch supporter of the 737 MAX, no matter what happened. Has this aeroplane received the MCAS software corrections? If not, you won't see me on it. If yes, I would first wait to have it validated by FAA, or better, by EASA, knowing the links between Boeing and FAA.
One question here (open to everybody of course):

Do you believe the Ethiopian crash wouldn't have happened if the MCAS software had been corrected?
If yes, why?

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