Boeing 737 (MAX) news

[sn26567]

Tweet removed. I wonder why

[Desert Rat]

Shanghai Airlines is flying their Maxxes from SHA to Lanzhou, meaning that the Max will not fly back soon in PRC.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

As a passenger... Would I feel safe in a MAX with the software update... No....
( And yes I was a Boeing fan before... )
Because who says the software update is enough and with the mistakes-faults in certification and the Boeing rush to get thé Max airborne again asap...

It's not a question of technics , software now ...but more a matter of trust in the organisations...

It will take a time to see the Max flying again for months, CXB-less , before we can forget that episode...

Would still prefer to see an old 738 then those v shaped wingtipped killermachine at my gate... for a year of two

Guess a lot with me !

Maybe better to leave the MAX idea and go for a real updated one,instead of a modern years 60 designed plane ... But won't happen as money... Yes..

CXB

[TLspotting]

Icelandair can switch to a all Airbus fleet as they consider to buy A321neo LR, facing MAX problems.

[Passenger]

Tweet removed. I wonder why

Flight Sofia-Amsterdam with PH-TFO 737 MAX has been cancelled.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ph-tfo

[Desert Rat]

To cut a long story short, the Max is a bit like a lawnmower equipped with a Big-Block Chevy...

[Luke777]

When it goes tits up the MAX requires flying skills which today’s pilots (JAF probably being a rare exception) don’t have anymore!

I agree for 100 percent with this statement of Poiu, today newbies come on a right seat with passengers and it is their first real flight in a 737 (or 320) is this normal ?

[Passenger]

A survey by Barclays on 1.765 airline passengers shows that many people will avoid the 737 MAX once the aircraft is flying again.

Barclays: “...Nearly half won’t fly MAX for year or more. If given the choice between a MAX and another aircraft type on otherwise identical flights, 52% would choose the other aircraft type..."

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/07/barclay ... 7-max.html

[Bracebrace]

When it goes tits up the MAX requires flying skills which today’s pilots (JAF probably being a rare exception) don’t have anymore!

I agree for 100 percent with this statement of Poiu, today newbies come on a right seat with passengers and it is their first real flight in a 737 (or 320) is this normal ?

I think you misquoted me here... I never made statements on that subject.

But if you believe these "special flying skills", I don't see why "JAF" would be the "rare exception", as JAF is currently the only Belgian airline to train MPL people. Their experience is the lowest of the lowest in aviation. So there is a bit of a contradiction here.

As I said "noise prooves nothing".

[luchtzak]

Boeing Max Failed to Apply Safety Lesson From Deadly 2009 Crash (Turkish Airlines crash @ Amsterdam Schiphol)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 2009-crash

[luchtzak]

[Bracebrace]

I think you misquoted me here... I never made statements on that subject.

As for that statement: my experience is I don't see any problem with that. It can be tough in some isolated cases, yes, no need to deny. But it is much much harder to re-train someone with 2000hrs of single engine piston habits that are not to be used on a swept wing jet. On the very basic assumption that they mastered basic IFR attitude flying and basic landing skills (I'm talking 200ft and below) and it is usually the student attitude during flight school that will make the difference. Not the experience.

But if you believe the "special flying skills" I don't see the connection with JAF, as JAF is currently the only Belgian airline to train MPL people. Their experience is the lowest of the lowest in aviation (especially basic landing skills).

As I said "noise prooves nothing".

Poiu had a very short but clear and correct statement earlier on this topic.
You need a good plane, and correctly trained pilots together.

You cannot say that a pilot who never flies manually is a correctly trained pilot. Some airlines push pilots to use automation as from 400ft AGL after take-off until the aircraft is perfectly configured for landing. These pilots never "feel" their plane, they watch what the plane is doing and never, never fly it raw data with manual thrust. Never. They are scared to do that, because they have never been trained to do it and not only that, they are not allowed to do it by their airline. Do you find that acceptable? I don't. You can't ignore there is a problem in the industry with this particular topic, the aircraft accident/incident history in recent cases clearly proves that.

These are not "special flying skills" but basic flying skills every single pilot should have. You talk about the MPL program. These guys will have a PPL and then will be trained in a 737 simulator. The standard required in the real 737 is the same or higher than for "conventional" training. It's just the way to achieve it that is different. New things are scary for some people, but at least give them a chance and see what the result will be. If it doesn't work, they will never be released on the line. Every year they have to kick new F/O's out because they do not have the standards required, it won't be different for MPL guys. Also, these MPL students have been selected out of thousands of applications and are really good guys, not unmotivated rich young boys who want to be pilots for their instagram account. They have a tough training to undergo, and I'm 100% looking forward to be flying with such people.

I was also very skeptical about that MPL program, but I am sure it can be very efficient if the aim is to have highly qualified pilots, with a training given by very experienced & skilled instructors. More efficient than classic flying schools where you only have to pay to get your license with bad skills at the end.

Now the Ethiopian:
Do you find normal that a captain with 8000 hours tries to engage the A/P numerous times with a PFD that shows pitch up indications of 75° with the stick shaker activated? How on earth did he think that would save their a**? He did that only because he does that on every normal take-off. With A/T engaged at all times. Why do you think the thrust remained at 94% for "most of the flight"? See how fast their speed was increasing by reading the graphs on the accident report. Scary, really.

Should we go further with:

The EK 777 f***-up go around at DXB?
Or the Turkish 737 at AMS?
Or the Asiana 777 at SFO?

Just a small edit; this is my opinion based on flying the 737. It's still a classic plane that sometimes has to be flown as a classic plane. If you are lucky to fly a modern plane, such as the 320, then I imagine your opinion on this matter might be completely, completely different.

As far as the Ethiopian goes, one word: confusion. Like AF447. They did not know what to focus on. That doesn't mean I agree with what you said on that topic, I personally don't understand either how someone can leave the pitch at +10° above FL300... but it happened. Somebody did. And I do not consider all JAF pilots completely prone to that confusion idea.

[sn26567]

This morning, Boeing representation for EU and NATO informed us of the following:

Boeing has completed development of the software update, associated simulator testing and our engineering test flight. To date, Boeing has flown the updated software on the 737 MAX for more than 360 hours on 207 flights.

We are now providing additional information to address Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) requests that include additional detail on how pilots interact with the airplane controls and displays in different flight scenarios. Once the requests are addressed, we will work with the FAA to schedule their certification test flight and submit final certification documentation.

[sn26567]

A very good article (as usual) from Dominic Gates in The Seattle Times, analysing the possibility of pilot errors in the two recent 737 MAX crashes:

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... x-crashes/

Starting with a very arrogant statement:

The lead Republican congressman blamed errors by the Indonesian and Ethiopian pilots for the two deadly MAX crashes in those countries. “Pilots trained in the United States would have successfully been able to handle” the emergencies on both jets, said Rep. Sam Graves of Missouri, ranking member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.

But this statement was based on a report commissioned and paid for by ... institutional investors with large holdings in Boeing stock!

After discussing with many pilots and specialists worldwide, Dominic Gates concludes that the major mistake is in Boeing having to develop MCAS to get the MAX flying.

[Passenger]

A very good article (as usual) from Dominic Gates in The Seattle Times, analysing the possibility of pilot errors in the two recent 737 MAX crashes:
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/b ... x-crashes/
Starting with a very arrogant statement:
The lead Republican congressman blamed errors by the Indonesian and Ethiopian pilots for the two deadly MAX crashes in those countries. “Pilots trained in the United States would have successfully been able to handle” the emergencies on both jets, said Rep. Sam Graves of Missouri, ranking member of the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.

But this statement was based on a report commissioned and paid for by ... institutional investors with large holdings in Boeing stock!

After discussing with many pilots and specialists worldwide, Dominic Gates concludes that the major mistake is in Boeing having to develop MCAS to get the MAX flying.

Maybe that report was commissioned and paid for by investors. But the article also states: "Graves was repeating the main points in a report written by two pilots at a major U.S. airline that pointed to pilot error as “the most consequential factor” in both crashes".

Me thinks we won't find that report online, as it will probably have restricted access. But it seems the report was not written by investors - only commissioned.

- - -

Please also note Republican congressman Sam Graves is also a commercial pilot. And please also note what else Rep. Sam Graves said about the crashes:

"...But the Journal and Seattle Times stories indicate that the 737 MAX may have other shortcomings. They said evidence suggests that the pilots were unable to pull the plane up even after cutting off power to the automated system and attempting to turn a manual crank wheel, as training dictates. After that failed, the pilots then apparently reactivated the automated system, the newspapers said.

Rep. Sam Graves (R-Mo.), the top Republican on the House Transportation Committee and a pilot with a commercial-grade license, said that points to a problem with the pilots' response. “The last thing you do is reengage the damn thing. You just don’t do that,” Graves said. “The only scenario I would ever see that they would possibly switch back is because they don’t know how to fly the damn airplane.” Graves continued to question the pilots’ training, in particular asking how the 29-year-old captain of the Ethiopian plane could have had 8,000 flight hours. “We got guys retiring at 65 with 25,000 hours. He was either Hercules or he was pencil-whipping his logbook,” Graves said. “I question that every bit as much as I question Ethiopian Airlines putting a co-pilot in there with 200 hours. Doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.”
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/04/ ... sh-1319958

For both crashes, it looks like we're heading towards "main cause" and "contributing factors".

[Passenger]

TUI NL will do a second attempt on Sunday to ferry PH-TFO (737 MAX 8) from Sofia to Amsterdam.

I got this information: "PH-TFO will fly flaps 1 and max 250 kts to avoid activation of the MCAS. Cruising alt will be FL230, and a fuel stop is planned in Cagliari".

[Homo Aeroportus]

TUI NL will do a second attempt on Sunday to ferry PH-TFO (737 MAX 8) from Sofia to Amsterdam.

I got this information: "PH-TFO will fly flaps 1 and max 250 kts to avoid activation of the MCAS. Cruising alt will be FL230, and a fuel stop is planned in Cagliari".

Interesting routing for sure :

SOF-CAG-AMS.jpg (50.45 KiB) Viewed 2440 times

H.A.

[Passenger]

Indepth article from the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/id ... ly_crashes

[sn26567]

An in-depth article from the BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/id ... ly_crashes

This is indeed excellent journalism. And Ethiopian took advantage of it, contradicting the arrogance of US congressmen blaming the Ethiopian pilots and pretending that American pilots could have saved the situation:

[Passenger]

An in-depth article from the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/id ... ly_crashes

This is indeed excellent journalism. And Ethiopian took advantage of it... ...

Quite obvious from Ethiopian. They were involved in a deadly crash, and when only Boeing is blamed for that crash, Ethiopian's international safety image is kind of restored.

An in-depth article from the BBC:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/id ... ly_crashes

... ...contradicting the arrogance of US congressmen blaming the Ethiopian pilots and pretending that American pilots could have saved the situation

I haven't read that US congressmen pretended that American pilots could have saved the situation. Are you referring to that Politico article? If so, your reaction isn't accurate: it was just one congresman, and he's not only a politician but also a commercial pilot. And he didn't say that US pilots could have saved the situation:

"...But the Journal and Seattle Times stories indicate that the 737 MAX may have other shortcomings. They said evidence suggests that the pilots were unable to pull the plane up even after cutting off power to the automated system and attempting to turn a manual crank wheel, as training dictates. After that failed, the pilots then apparently reactivated the automated system, the newspapers said.

Rep. Sam Graves (R-Mo.), the top Republican on the House Transportation Committee and a pilot with a commercial-grade license, said that points to a problem with the pilots' response. “The last thing you do is reengage the damn thing. You just don’t do that,” Graves said. “The only scenario I would ever see that they would possibly switch back is because they don’t know how to fly the damn airplane.” Graves continued to question the pilots’ training, in particular asking how the 29-year-old captain of the Ethiopian plane could have had 8,000 flight hours. “We got guys retiring at 65 with 25,000 hours. He was either Hercules or he was pencil-whipping his logbook,” Graves said. “I question that every bit as much as I question Ethiopian Airlines putting a co-pilot in there with 200 hours. Doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.”