Legislation on accepting passengers during flight in cockpit

[pressman]

I think the key word there is unauthorised , if a person is authorised by the PIC then there is not a problem .

[sn26567]

Passenger,

The captain is sole chief on board. If he authorises someone in the cockpit, this person is no longer "unauthorised", unless company policy forbids him from letting people to come into the cockpit.

Usually, in company policies, access to the cockpit is left to the captain's judgment. If he allows someone into the cockpit, I don't see any reason to complain about it.

From my own experience, usually, the captain will ask people that he allows into the cockpit to be discreet about it: the person will cross the cockpit door behind a closed curtain and will be asked not to write or tell about his/her experience içn the cockpit.

[Passenger]

Allow me to disagree. A passenger cannot become "an authorised person". Only airline and/or airport related staff can become such persons (ATC, trainees, off duty crew, maintenance, ...).

"Cockpit doors are kept locked to prevent unauthorised persons from entering the flight deck" is European legislation under the chapter "Passengers rights". Airlines are not allowed to weaken this right, example by softening the general rule with instruction "however, the captain can give the authorisation". At this moment, the European Court of Justice handles two cases where airlines have given an own interpretation of Passenger Rights legislation, in favour of themselves. In both cases, the Advocate General's Opinion is against the airline interpretation. In both cases, the AG says that European legislation 261/2004 on Passengers Rights is installed to protect the right of the passengers, and therefore may not be limited or reduced.

Case 1 : Ryanair refusing to refund accommodation and transport costs made a passenger, stranded in Portugal because a flight was cancelled after the famous Eyjafjallajökull volcano eruption in Iceland:
http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs ... 0032en.pdf
Case 2 : British airlines refusing to pay indemnity for delayed - but not cancelled - flights:
http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs ... 0063en.pdf

So "Cockpit doors are kept locked to prevent unauthorised persons from entering the flight deck" cannot be weakened off. Luchtzak-member Erna has the full right to a safe flight, thus without unauthorised persons entering the cockpit.

[Airbus330lover]

Both cases are "commercial" cases.
It's surely not the same.
The captain authorise or invite the person he wants.
Many times, they give the authorisation, before the flight !

[Passenger]

Both cases are "commercial" cases. It's surely not the same.

This is also a commercial case (civil case): "is a passenger entitled to an indemnity when he/she had an unsafe inflight feeling because some unauthorised people were allowed into the cockpit?"

The captain authorise or invite the person he wants.

No! Even captains have to comply to European legislation on "Passengers Rights".

[JAF737]

Passenger,

The captain is sole chief on board. If he authorises someone in the cockpit, this person is no longer "unauthorised", unless company policy forbids him from letting people to come into the cockpit.

Usually, in company policies, access to the cockpit is left to the captain's judgment. If he allows someone into the cockpit, I don't see any reason to complain about it.

From my own experience, usually, the captain will ask people that he allows into the cockpit to be discreet about it: the person will cross the cockpit door behind a closed curtain and will be asked not to write or tell about his/her experience içn the cockpit.

That's before 2001. Unfortunately, this is not really the case anymore.

There are (like for everything else in aviation...) very clear regulations and company rules (based on those regulations) that make clear who would be allowed in the cockpit or not.

But like you said, Andre, I don't see any reason why accepting a KNOWN passenger in the cockpit would be unsafe...but yeah, some people have real problems.

[andorra-airport]

Allow me to disagree. A passenger cannot become "an authorised person". Only airline and/or airport related staff can become such persons (ATC, trainees, off duty crew, maintenance, ...).

"Cockpit doors are kept locked to prevent unauthorised persons from entering the flight deck" is European legislation under the chapter "Passengers rights"

Only airline related staff can become authorised? It happens sometimes that such people are not allowed inside the cockpit, because the captain does not accepts them, but they are still "authorised"? I don't think so. The authorisation has a direct link to the captain, if he grants that to you, staff or not.

That the door is locked for your safety / "passenger right", is a good thing. A "right" to be protected against unauthorised people. Authorised people (by the captain) may enter, and that has nothing to do with those passenger rights.

[Desert Rat]

Some fun in the cabin...

ABY - Nairobi-Sharjah 25th April 2012 -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu-Xvd-jbk0&sns=fb

[pressman]

Passanger , you are talking rubbish , you are referring to totally different area of legislation regarding passenger rights , nothing to do with cockpit access . If a passenger is known to me I can let him on the flight deck , simple as that , as long as I act within any company SOPs or indeed legislation that exists in places such as the UK regulations , there is nobody on this planet who can instruct me to do anything whilst I am onboard the plane . If it is within local regs and allowed by company SOPs then I can allow anyone I want into the flight deck . But once again , because there are busybodies like you and erne around writing letters I don't do it anymore as it then just becomes a hassle .

[B.Inventive]

honestly, you can 'indoctrinate' any 'authorized' person for your religion to commit such acts of terrorism as well so why we would consider it only safe to allow them in the cockpit and no others seems a bit ridiculous. Like I said, whenever I fly, I value MY life first, that thought alone should keep my pax happy since inherently keeping MY life safe involves keeping my pax' lives safe too...
This is a bullshit discussion btw, I really hate people who moan about these kinds of things. Get a real life , seriously... There's 99999999999999% more chances of you getting hit by a bus tomorrow, than you being on a plane which will be hijacked SOLELY because the crew allowed a 'known' but according to EU regulations (which is NOT in EU-OPS btw!!) 'unauthorized' person into the cockpit... If they want to bring down the airplane, they will bring down the airplane, a solid bullet proof door, metal detectors, fluid regulations and whatever other measure they have in place right now will not stop them from doing that.
We created a feeling of safety... well get real, if you are that conscious about it, you shouldn't leave your home either!

Really I am SICK of people like this...

[TCAS_climb]

Peace on Earth and in the friendly skies of EU-OPS. Let's elevate our souls with an extract from the regulations.

OPS 1.100 - Admission to flight deck
(a) An operator must ensure that no person, other than a flight crew member assigned to a flight, is admitted to, or carried in, the flight deck unless that person is:
1. an operating crew member;
2. a representative of the Authority responsible for certification, licensing or inspection if this is required for the performance of his/her official duties; or
3. permitted by, and carried in accordance with instructions contained in the Operations Manual.

(b) The commander shall ensure that:
1. in the interests of safety, admission to the flight deck does not cause distraction and/or interfere with the flight’s operation; and
2. all persons carried on the flight deck are made familiar with the relevant safety procedures.

(c) The final decision regarding the admission to the flight deck shall be the responsibility of the commander.

[cathay belgium]

Hi,

So conclusion ! Better stay quite Erna, unless it was a older man with a big beard and a turban entering the cockpit !!
As you saw reactions of pilots before in this topic,more hassle and we, avgeeks, can forget jumpseats always instead of the VERY VERY VERY LOW possibilities now !! ( my chances were on 1 before 9/11 and 1 after on a total of 183 flights ! )

It's the decision of the commander.. respect that, doors can't be closed always.. toilet,food...

When we give more hassle to this,cockpitpics after landing could also be gone ...

And don't worry, terrorism will ,sadly, always be part of our civilisation.. was,is an will be as how long religions,differences between people and a non-spreaded wealth will exist

Greetz, CX-B

[cnc]

why would you want to go in the cockpit anyway when you can jumpseat in the back next to some lovely FA's?

[FlightMate]

You wouldn't be complaining about somebody allowed on the jumpseat if you knew what some others are allowed to do...

I remember the story of a captain allowing a FA on his seat during a landing.

Or have a look at this bloke allowing his wife on the co-pilots seat during the flight...


PS: a friend tried to post this pic here, but hasn't been allowed. I wonder why, nothing indecent about it...

[TCAS_climb]

Not exactly right on topic but briefly discussed over here anyway: the flying terrorists and how effective is the TSA... 5 things the TSA doesn't want you to see!