Boeing 777X news

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RoMax
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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 25 Mar 2013, 23:24

If the price is good enoug, PAL (Philippine Airlines) will buy 10 B777X aircraft with an option for 10 more (if they perform up to expectations, they want to operate a fleet of 20 of these aircraft).

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1364213258.html

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 17 Apr 2013, 23:35

Emirates expressed their need for more 777X specifications before placing an order. They are working closely with Boeing to get what they want...for a potential need of 275(!!) Boeing 777X aircraft.
Paris Air Show is probably too early for an order.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-04-1 ... order.html

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 02 May 2013, 11:31

Boeing apperently got board approval to formally offer the 777X to airlines for sale. That doesn't mean yet the program is launched, that's still a next step. With the current approval they can't sign firm orders yet, but they do can sign formal deals (before this they could talk with airlines, but not about formal deals).

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by sn26567 » 02 May 2013, 18:05

RoMax wrote:Boeing apperently got board approval to formally offer the 777X to airlines for sale.
The announcement is not yet the traditional “authority to offer” (ATO) language used in former programmes, but it may be considered as an equivalent.

The board decision puts Boeing (and its exclusive engine partner GE) on track for a potential launch around October or November 2013, and the entry into service of the first new 777 in 2019.

The extended series will include a 353-seat 777-8LX (successor of the 777-300ER), and the 406-seat 777-9X, which will cater to the higher capacity long-range market. This larger model is provisionally slated to debut first, with the -8LX following around 2021. The 777X will be offered only with the 100,000 lb. thrust GE9X engine.
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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 02 May 2013, 18:39

sn26567 wrote:The 777X will be offered only with the 100,000 lb. thrust GE9X engine.
Which GE aims to certify by mid-2018, which points at a mid-2019 EIS for the first 777X-version.

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 07 May 2013, 19:19

The 777-8X (17.600km) is expected to become the longest-range aircraft on the market, replacing the 777-200LR (17.200km).
The problem with these ultra-long haul routes is that the costs are very high, because of that the 777-200LR is not that popular (not to talk about the A340-500) compared to "normal-range" versions. On the other hand, airlines using the -200LR don't always do that because they need the range. But as from a certain distance the -200LR is way more payload capable than the -200ER. Boeing wants to reduce the costs of the ultra long haul routes and increase the advantage of the payload capability on the "shorter" flights (which is probably to distance itself more from the A350-1000 which will have a simular capacity) and airlines seem to be interested in that. Tough it will be a ULH aircraft, in a niche market (tough already a larger market than with the previous generations of ULH aircraft) so it seems a no-brainer that the 777-9X will be the best-selling of the two.

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by MD-11forever » 04 Oct 2013, 11:12

A huge order for the 777X by Emirates in the near future?

Emirates Nearing ‘Enormous’ Boeing 777X Order, Executive Says

Oct. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Emirates, the largest operator of Boeing Co. 777 aircraft, is poised to place an “enormous” order for a new, larger version of the twin-engine jet that’s set to be unveiled later this year. Emirates plans to replace 175 of the widebody planes with Boeing’s 777X aircraft and could announce an order at next month’s Dubai Airshow, Tim Clark, the carrier’s president, said in an interview today in Milan. Boeing expects to deliver the first upgraded 777X by the end of the decade. “The scale of what we are contemplating is enormous,” said Clark, who declined to provide specifics on the size of the potential order.

While Boeing’s board hasn’t yet formally approved the 777 replacements, the jet has already drawn an $11 billion order from Deutsche Lufthansa AG for 34 of the 777-9X variant. Talks between Dubai-based Emirates and Boeing have been under way for almost three years and are now focused on “commercial aspects” of the contract, Clark said. Discussions include price and peripheral aspects such as emission and fuel-burn guarantees. The latest twin-engine jet is “getting close to where we want it to be,” Clark said. The larger of two planned variants, the 777-9X is designed to seat more than 400 passengers, and fly 8,000 nautical miles while burning 20 percent less fuel than the current 777-300ER jets.

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 04 Oct 2013, 13:48

MD-11forever wrote:A huge order for the 777X by Emirates in the near future?
They were expected to be the launch customer, but Lufthansa became first. Earlier this year Tim Clark said that in the future he sees a potential of up to 275 777X aircraft in their fleet (both for replacement and expansion). So an initial order of 100+ aircraft would be no suprise, if it gets closer to the 200, that would be very nice for sure.

Question, who's next and will Boeing get more orders this year (if EK is ready to order at the Dubai Air Show, I assume Boeing launches the aircraft overthere as well)? Qatar Airways (claiming the 777-9X will be even better than Boeing wants to claim in public), British Airways, Cathay, Eva Air, United, ... have all claimed huge interest in the aircraft (even though some of these carriers have A350-1000's on order).
ANA and JAL are difficult. Both have a strong Boeing-tradition, but are currently also looking at the A350 and don't want a 787-story again. Though both are part of a focus group working with Boeing on the 777X (just as EK, LH, BA, QR,...).

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 21 Oct 2013, 18:01

Previously Etihad already expressed high interest in the Boeing 777X, but now two people "close to the matter" say that Etihad is negotiating an order for 25-30 777X aircraft.
Etihad may also order up to 30 extra Boeing 787 aircraft (they currently have 41 789's on order, being the biggest airline customer for that version, ILFC also has 41 789's on order), they currently hold 25 Dreamliner options.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/etihad-ta ... 35326.html

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by sn26567 » 24 Oct 2013, 23:11

RoMax wrote:Question, who's next and will Boeing get more orders this year (if EK is ready to order at the Dubai Air Show, I assume Boeing launches the aircraft overthere as well)? Qatar Airways (claiming the 777-9X will be even better than Boeing wants to claim in public), British Airways, Cathay, Eva Air, United, ...
Qatar Airways "not interested" in Boeing 777X

Qatar Airways is not interested in ordering Boeing's proposed new 777X wide-body jet, its chief executive Akbar Al Baker said on Thursday (24 Oct 2013).

Qatar Airways is among several major carriers being courted by Boeing as it finalizes plans for a larger version of its profitable 777 wide-body jet, which is expected to be launched at next month's Dubai Airshow.

Source: Reuters
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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 27 Oct 2013, 22:12

Sorry for my late reply (which you probably expected xp), I had some other things to do last week. Well they is very contradicting to his previous statements about the 777X, saying they would like to be one of the launch customers. What I said about Qatar (that they expect the 777-9X to be better than expected) is something Al Baker said during last Paris Air Show. A part of an article about it:

"The Qatar Airways CEO is confident the -9X will actually exceed performance targets, just like the 777-300ER did. Qatar would not have ordered more 777-200LRs had it known that the -300ER would do all the missions required by the airline, he notes."
Last week it was even rumoured Qatar would be on course to order 50 of the new 777-9X aircraft, altough that was just a rumour.
Not happy about the latest performances Boeing agreed on with other big (possible) customers, is Boeing asking too much money, Qatar pushing for a fast decision of Airbus on a larger A350-1100 as a big A350 client and launch customer, ... ? Many possible reasons for sure.

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 28 Oct 2013, 01:04

Meanwhile Emirates is talking with Boeing on the commercial details for an order of about 100 aircraft, while also looking at new deals with Airbus. With both Airbus and Boeing, deals could be announced at the Dubai Air Show next month, but nothing is final yet.
Tim Clark: “We are in a relatively advanced stage of commercial negotiations . . . I think whatever happens there will be a substantive order for the new 777.”
This "substantive order" is said to be worth 100 to 175 aircraft, but sources "close to the matter" talk more about 100 than 175. Such an order would be worth 30 to 40 billion US Dollar based on the expected list prices, that would be Boeing's biggest commercial aircraft order ever (currently the 22,4 billion dollar of Lion Air is their biggest).

Emirates considers both the 777-8X and the larger 777-9X. Though probably the 777-9X will be significantly larger as EK already has the 777-8X competitor on order, the A350-1000. Even more so, Emirates said they are looking at more A350-1000 aircraft, at the cost of reducing their order for the smaller A350-900. EK has 50 -900's and 20 -1000's on order. Tim Clark also repeated their interest in 20 extra A380's (which would be very welcome for the A380 at this moment), but he also expressed that this partly depends on the available room at their current DXB hub or the new Dubai World Central airport (this is probably a matter of when and not if with DWC in development).

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7e939340-3ee7 ... z2iyB4rfYB

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 29 Oct 2013, 12:20

Al Baker(QR)'s statements on the 777X are not exactly getting clearer. This is what he said last week:
"We don't know anything about the airplane. We can't just compare with the size of aircraft. We are just waiting for Boeing to offer us the aircraft and to show us what the aircraft is going to do,"
Which is in itself actually a quite strange statement as Emirates said already quite some time ago they quite finished the technical details with Boeing and the current negotiations are about the commercial aspects of the order.

Today Al Baker said (during the Oneworld-ceremony): "We have to wait. When the time is right, if we make up our mind, we will tell the press at the appropriate time."

Another recent element in the 777X-story is: where to build it? Charleston seems to be an attractive place, but even the 787 FAL caused a lot of problems for Boeing (due to Washington state staff being against it). This is not going to be any different with the 777X.
And it's not just about the FAL, but also the wings. Japan seems the standard choice for Boeing, especially now they decided to go with new composite wings (the 787 wings are already build in Japan). But a major aspect in the success of the 777X will be price and building the wings in Charleston would be way cheaper over Japan. The fact that Japan Airlines decided to go with the A350 is a factor in such a decision of keeping the production in the US instead of going to Japan. Of course this latest can also be pressure from Boeing to make sure ANA orders the 777X.

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by MD-11forever » 30 Oct 2013, 09:01

Boeing Said to Near Order Haul of Up to $87 Billion for 777X

Oct. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Boeing Co. is in talks with four airlines on orders for its redesigned 777X jetliner valued at as much as $87 billion ahead of next month’s Dubai Airshow, people familiar with the matter said.
The 255 planes under discussion include as many as 100 to 150 for Dubai-based Emirates, about 50 for Qatar Airways Ltd. and as many as 30 for Etihad Airways, said the people, who asked not to be identified as the negotiations are private.
Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd. is weighing as many as 25 of the aircraft in a transaction that probably would come before the Dubai event, one of the people said. The expo runs Nov. 17-21 and is often a showcase for long-haul jets like the 777.
An order haul in Dubai for the 777X would be a boost for Boeing years ahead of the jet’s commercial debut, now targeted for decade’s end. Boeing is betting that it can keep Airbus SAS at bay in the market for the biggest twin-engine jets by upgrading the current 777, not by building an all-new plane as its French rival is doing with the A350.
“This kind of order would definitely be a huge vote of confidence in the aircraft,” said Siyi Lim, a Singapore-based analyst at OCBC Investment Research. “The 777 is already a proven aircraft and most airlines already fly them.”
A purchase of 100 or more of the new 777s by Emirates would be Boeing’s largest-ever initial tally, surpassing the 50-jet order valued at $6 billion from Japan’s ANA Holdings Inc. to introduce the 787 Dreamliner in 2004, when the plane was still known as the 7E7.

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 31 Oct 2013, 01:35

Boeing announced that major elements of the component design of the 777X will be carried out by engineers located outside of the Puget Sound region (in Washington State). As is the case with the 737 MAX, engineers from the Charleston and Long Beach facilities will play a significant role in the design of the 777X. But in addition to these locations, also some 'military' Boeing facilities will assist in the design: Huntsville (Alabama), Philadelphia and St. Louis (Missouri), besides Long Beach which is home to the C-17 production for the time being (but this one already assists in the design of the 737 MAX). In addition Boeing's Moscow design facility will also play a role in detailed component design of the 777X, as it did with the 747-8.

This keeps the 777X engineering work in house, contrary to the previous 787 approach in which Boeing allowed other companies to participate in major engineering design work. But it continues the recent developments of engineering moving away from Puget Sound Region to other Boeing facilities spread over the US (and the Russian facility).

Let's hope the design office of Moscow does a better job on the 777X as they did with the 747-8. They massivly overdesigned several parts of the 747-8 making it much more heavy than planned, although that eventually also had a positive effect on the capabilities of the 748 (allowing it to have a higher MTOW), but still Boeing back-engineered several parts to make them lighter.

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by sn26567 » 14 Nov 2013, 17:31

Where will the 777X be built. Everett (Seattle) seemed to be the natural location, since the 777 is already assembled there. But Boeing wanted concessions from the trade unions [IAM or International (!) Association of Machinists] in exchange for 15 years of work: no more pension fund and a reduction in the healthcare advantages. Two third of the workers refused to see their advantages reduced.

Boeing now threatens to built the 777X plant elsewhere: Long Beach in California, or the new non-unionised 787 plant in South Carolina. The wings could be built in Japan by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. 20,000 jobs could at the end move out of the historical plant of Boeing in Everett.
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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by sn26567 » 15 Nov 2013, 11:12

sn26567 wrote:Where will the 777X be built. Everett (Seattle) seemed to be the natural location, since the 777 is already assembled there. But Boeing wanted concessions from the trade unions [IAM or International (!) Association of Machinists] in exchange for 15 years of work: no more pension fund and a reduction in the healthcare advantages. Two third of the workers refused to see their advantages reduced.

Boeing now threatens to built the 777X plant elsewhere: Long Beach in California, or the new non-unionised 787 plant in South Carolina. The wings could be built in Japan by Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. 20,000 jobs could at the end move out of the historical plant of Boeing in Everett.
Boeing Statement on IAM Contract Extension Vote

Boeing Commercial Airplanes has issued a statement from President and CEO Ray Conner after a long-term contract extension was voted down by the International Association of Machinists & Aerospace Workers District 751.

"We are very disappointed in the outcome of the union vote. Our goal was two-fold: to enable the 777X and its new composite wing to be produced in Puget Sound and to create a competitive structure to ensure that we continue market-leading pay, health care and retirement benefits while preserving jobs and our industrial base here in the region. But without the terms of this contract extension, we're left with no choice but to open the process competitively and pursue all options for the 777X.

I'd like to thank Governor Jay Inslee and the Washington state legislature for all their efforts in this process. We had hoped for a different outcome
."

SEATTLE, Nov. 14, 2013 /PRNewswire/

I think that Boeing distorts the truth when it says: "we continue market-leading pay, health care and retirement benefits". These benefits would have been n largely reduced with the new contract submitted to the vote.
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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 15 Nov 2013, 12:12

sn26567 wrote: I think that Boeing distorts the truth when it says: "we continue market-leading pay, health care and retirement benefits". These benefits would have been n largely reduced with the new contract submitted to the vote.
I think you seriously underestimate the tremendous power of IAM in the aerospace manufacturing industry (and yes international, because they are also active in Canada) and the status they achieved for the Boeing workers. Even with the less attractive contracts proposed by Boeing, they would be among the best treated workers in the US manufacturing industry.
If IAM doesn't get what they want in the end, they close down production, just like they did in 2008, which had a HUGE impact on Boeing back then. The Charleston plan which is not controlled by IAM came only after huge concessions made by Boeing to their union-controlled staff, otherwise they (IAM) would have done the same as in 2008: closing production in Washington state just as long as needed before Boeing would give IAM what they want (the 2008 strike was also for a significant part about outsourcing and job security in Washington).

So I'm very curious how this will continue...

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by RoMax » 16 Nov 2013, 17:43

Tomorrow there will be a press conference at the Dubai Air Show with Boeing, Emirates and Etihad present...guess what this will be about :)

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Re: Boeing 777X news

Post by sn26567 » 16 Nov 2013, 18:16

RoMax wrote:Tomorrow there will be a press conference at the Dubai Air Show with Boeing, Emirates and Etihad present...guess what this will be about :)
And no Lufthansa ??? :(
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