Brussels Airlines future and financial perspective

[teddybAIR]

don't make it harder than it is. If RYR transports 1,5mio pax to BRU, some of those will take onward flights and represent potential for other airlines, brussels airlines included.

[Sean_DM]

Indeed
Just a purely hypothetical excercise:

BCN-JFK: booked on the SN website: 3488€ return

Sames dates and flight times:
BCN - BRU return on FR with 20kg luggage and reserved seat: 190€
BRU - JFK return on SN: 854€
Together: 1044€

Just saying ...

[teddybAIR]

I'm far from knowledgeable when it comes to airfares, but when I read that I ask my self who in his right mind is willing to pay 3.488€ for a flight?! Is that a return ticket? I would never even pay it to fly me to moon really

[sn26567]

I would think that's a business fare!

[Sean_DM]

Nope sorry, return economy :/

[RoMax]

Seems like an expensive combination indeed, probably a reason behind it why having such expensive BCN-JFK tickets (like SN having no real benefit from having pax flying this route on cheap tickets and trying to preserve that capacity for other 'kind of passengers'). But it can also be the other way around, often it is cheaper to fly for example from a French destination to Africa through BRU than just BRU-Africa (in this case that has to do with AF competition). It highly depends on the route.

But indeed, I do not doubt that in some occasions, pax will buy a LCC ticket within Europe, to continue on long haul with a full service carrier. I just don't know how much pax will actually do that.

[airazurxtror]

Are the expected Wathelet subsidies included ?
Yes they are, approximately 15 mil.
So without subsidies in 2013 a net loss of 37 mil.

Have the Wathelet subsidies already been inscribed into a governmental decree ?
Have they already been paid ?
They have certainly not yet been approved by the European Commission.
Including those subsidies in the SN results is debatable, to say the least.

[teddybAIR]

Yes, reccon that, but 3.488€?! for what? seat pitch? I got plenty of seat pitch in my saloon at home and that saloon (which I sit in every day by the way) didn't even cost me that much
Catering? Must be some expensive champagne they serve up there!

Back to the essence with a back of the envelope (so yes, feel free to shoot it) calculation.

> RYR target: 1,5mio pax
> 10 destinations = 150k pax per destination of which 50% inbound = 75k
> 4 destinations not served by sn
> 300k pax that could potentially book onward flights

Now, what % would be a realistic figure? 1%? 10%? 100%?

[Inquirer]

Indeed
Just a purely hypothetical excercise:

BCN-JFK: booked on the SN website: 3488€ return

Sames dates and flight times:
BCN - BRU return on FR with 20kg luggage and reserved seat: 190€
BRU - JFK return on SN: 854€
Together: 1044€

Just saying ...

Nice find, but let's be honnest, even at 1,044 euro, it's still not a bargain, so I bet you can find cheaper tickets from BCN to JFK through for instance AF, LH, BA or why not Air Lingus on the same date, same route.

As others said: if the price is that high, there's a good reason for it and rather than try to get some off it by moving the first leg to another airline like for instance ryanair, better look elsewhere for the full journey then.

seriously, it will be hard for ryanair to be cheaper than a feeding flight offered in conjunction with a long haul ticket, as on many occasions those feeders come with a negative price even, and they include free luggage and an insured connectivity, and that's no problem as they shouldn't try to be cheaper than those of course!

Anyway, every passenger is a win, so let's just say it's a theoretical possibility indeed, but one which isn't likely of being used a lot unless they'd offer unique routes from BRU.

[Sean_DM]

From the abnormalities topic

Brussels Airlines flight SN251 (A333) made a u-turn between Tours and Bourges (FR) and seems to be on its way back to BRU.

This is also something that urgently needs to be adressed That 330 fleet is letting their passengers down waaaay to much.

[RoMax]

An interesting note, at this moment SN received 180,000 extra bookings for the summer season compared to last year, an increase of 11.5%. But how does this compare to the extra offered seats for the summer season? Of course that is difficult to compare. I believe SN said a number of the number of extra seats, but only for 2014 as a whole and the current bookings are not a good indication of the eventual bookings, it's still a long way to the end of October (the end of the summer season).

Gustin also said that SN could have been profitable in 2013 without the investments they have done such as new aircraft and desinations (such as the extra A330 and IAD). But same for this year SN preferes a financial loss on the short term while investing in a sustainable future than just short term money. That's also why investments this year (new aircraft, fleet, lounges,...) may prevent them from making a profit, but still prefered above a reduced rate of investment. Gustin says LH fully supports SN in this.

[Passenger]

Indeed
Just a purely hypothetical excercise:

BCN-JFK: booked on the SN website: 3488€ return

Sames dates and flight times:
BCN - BRU return on FR with 20kg luggage and reserved seat: 190€
BRU - JFK return on SN: 854€
Together: 1044€

Not a hypothetical exercise, but a real test booking, done just now, for one month as from today:

13th April 2014: BRU-JFK, SN501
return one week later, 22th April 2014, JFK-BRU, SN502

total fare: not 3.488 Euro, but: 764,71 Euro all taxes included (409 fare + 71,71 taxes + 284 other levies)

Additional BCN-BRU and BRU-BCN on Ryanair would indeed be 207 Euro (seating and luggage included, other fees not included). But then, this could well turn out to become much more expensive if the SN return flight is delayed and the FR bird is gone (example ATC delay at JFK). Ryanair's surcharge for a missed flight is 110 Euro, but that is only "valid" till 1 hour after the scheduled departure time. After that, the value of the return flight is reduced to the value of the paper on which the boarding pass is printed (= 0,006 Euro). Result: the pax has to buy a new ticket at the airport.

Also, if this Barcelona pax would use Brussels Airlines as add on, not only his luggage would be transferred automaticly, but in case of a delay of the international return flight, he will get a rebooking for BRU-BCN for free (think the system code is UR - "unvoluntury rebooking").

[Sean_DM]

I think you need to put your glasses on and read my post again

[cnc]

its not unusual to keep the price artificially high in the booking system on some transfer flights.
mostly to discourage a pax flow via XXX. in this case BCN pax trying to fly via BRU to JFK

[Sean_DM]

why anyone would want to prevent a pax flow is a mistery to me

[cnc]

why anyone would want to prevent a pax flow is a mistery to me

because direct flights cost more so airlines make more money on them. don't forget the JFK flights are part of a joint venture

[cnc]

btw i just gave an example, i have no clue about the reason in this case.

[sn26567]

It all depends on the days you choose your trip BCN-JFK on SN. On some dates only business seats were still available. On other days I could book BCN-BRU-JFK return for 555,03 euros All In (example: dep 6 May, return 13 May). It seems that weekends are particularly expensive... (that's when businesspeople want to fly!)

[Sean_DM]

That is possible, I just took 2 random dates about a week apart.

[airazurxtror]

A good analysis in "De Tijd" :
http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/ondernemingen ... 0-3085.art

Until now, I find nothing on the sites of the belgian newspapers in french - not even "La Libre", usually the first to celebrate SN.