Boeing 787 news

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RoMax
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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by RoMax » 24 Apr 2013, 00:30

It can't be called a good picture, but BA's first 787 left the paint shop...with blue engines. That may be normal for BA, it's not that normal for the 787. Most airlines opt for the standard white or grey paint that Boeing offers (a kind of paint that improves the air flow around the engine, having a positive effect on fuel usage). BA also showed renders of their 787's with white/light grey engines instead of their standard blue.

https://twitter.com/mattcawby/status/32 ... 33/photo/1

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by sn26567 » 24 Apr 2013, 13:58

The Qatar Airways 787 (A7-BCK) that was grounded in Heathrow for three months was ferried home to Doha today as QR3076. Without a new battery pack!?

United 787 N27903 was ferried from LAX to Lackland Air Force Base to receive the battery modification at a Boeing facility this afternoon.
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RoMax
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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by RoMax » 24 Apr 2013, 17:50

On Saterday (27-04) Ethiopian Airlines could perform a commercial 787-flight to Nairobi. That'll be the first commercial flight since the grounding half January.

http://www.nasdaq.com/video/boeing-787- ... -517755968

Air India says they could resume 787 flights as soon as next week, pending on approval from local authorities.

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by sean1982 » 24 Apr 2013, 17:52

cool, finally it's flying again. Can't wait to get a ride somewhere soon

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by sn26567 » 24 Apr 2013, 18:33

Boeing will not tell the specific costs of the battery problems, but they will only say they were "minor". Boeing 787 deliveries will resume in early May. Boeing is still expecting to deliver at least 60 Dreamliners this year, and current production is at 7 per month.

Boeing's CEO McNerney: 'We have a pretty high confidence level that we can be through most of the 787 modifications by mid-May.' He says there is no contractual obligation for 787 compensation, but they will help customers deflect any impact.

How, that remains to be seen. And if an airline asks for full compensation of its losses and Boeing refuses, a court might well side with the plaintiff...

An airline like LOT in financial problems might be very demanding in that field!
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RoMax
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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by RoMax » 24 Apr 2013, 18:58

sn26567 wrote:Boeing is still expecting to deliver at least 60 Dreamliners this year, and current production is at 7 per month.
The first 787 that will be build at the speed needed for 7/month entered FAL indeed, but production output currently is still at 5/month. It's just very recently they started the process of increasing the FAL production speed (production of parts further down the line is already at 7/month for a longer time of course).
The goal still is to be at 10/month at the end of this year...I'm curious :D

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by bollox » 24 Apr 2013, 20:53

I am curious too.

What the H+ll will happen if another battery starts smoking despite all the safety changes? :?:

100-200 beautiful birdies grounded?

The idea of a venting system means Boeing still fear/think the unthinkable might happen.

I read somewhere that the dynamics of Lithium-ion batteries are stll not fully understood.

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by JAF737 » 24 Apr 2013, 21:36

bollox wrote:I am curious too.

What the H+ll will happen if another battery starts smoking despite all the safety changes? :?:

100-200 beautiful birdies grounded?

The idea of a venting system means Boeing still fear/think the unthinkable might happen.

I read somewhere that the dynamics of Lithium-ion batteries are stll not fully understood.
Yes indeed... that's why Boeing added safety nets in order to avoid the worse to happen...

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by RoMax » 24 Apr 2013, 21:44

bollox wrote: The idea of a venting system means Boeing still fear/think the unthinkable might happen.

I read somewhere that the dynamics of Lithium-ion batteries are stll not fully understood.
They still don't what's the root cause of the problems, they may never found the that cause... Boeing redesigned the batteries so that they can't overheat that easily, but it can still happen of course. While testing the old batteries to its limits they saw temperatures towards 300 degrees, way more than they expected, with the new batteries the max was about 80-90 degrees after which they started to cool down fast thanks to a better 'cooling' system. One of the most important tests was with the APU battery and it was not until 5 of the 8 cells were overheated (but in a controlled way) that the APU lost power, that was also better than expected. The battery was pushed to total destruction, the smoke was perfectly 'removed' with the venting system and the box was able to keep everything inside.

In case of fumes/smoke, it will be vented outside the aircraft and in case of an explosion, it will be fully contained in a new 'safety box' that can sustain much heavier explosions than the batteries could ever produce.

Li-ion batteries remain special and dangerous things, but if something happens, it will never bring the aircraft in danger again as it did in December/January. But of course it's the question if they are really reliable now. Because they may not be a safety issue anymore, but they could still be a operational/commercial issue. But I assume Boeing and their customers worked that out in the past 3 months...

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by sn26567 » 24 Apr 2013, 22:25

RoMax wrote:It can't be called a good picture, but BA's first 787 left the paint shop...with blue engines.
Here is a better one:
Image
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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by sean1982 » 24 Apr 2013, 22:36

would the blue engines have a significant impact on the fuel flow?

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RoMax
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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by RoMax » 24 Apr 2013, 22:39

sean1982 wrote:would the blue engines have a significant impact on the fuel flow?
It will have an impact, but very limited I suppose

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by RoMax » 25 Apr 2013, 00:06

Ethiopian's new 787-shedule:
http://airlineroute.net/2013/04/24/et-787-apr13update2/
Frankfurt will receive commercial 787-flights again as from April 28th.

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by RoMax » 25 Apr 2013, 00:49

Boeing is looking at another increase in 787-production as the 787-10X launch is comming closer. Even with the 10/month production rate, the delivery slots are sold out for years to come and still they have to fit in a new version.

Back in 2007 a production rate towards 16/month was discussed by Boeing...but shortly after the supply chain of the 787 started to collapse and design faults started to come up so the plan was put in the freezer again. 16/month is still too much for the new Boeing management, but they are certainly looking at a higher production rate (same for the 777 which is at 8,3/month).
One thing Boeing has no doubt about is the demand for the 787-10X, Boeing's ceo: "One thing we don't lack for with the -10X is demand. Customers want this aircraft."

He also said the cost per unit to build a 787 has decreased with 60% from number 8 to number 100. That's slower than they were used from the 777, but that's because of the heavy rework needed on the first 787's. Boeing still expects to have a profit on each 787 in about 2 years and break-even on the whole program when they reach 1,100 deliveries.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ch-385102/

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by earthman » 25 Apr 2013, 10:26

RoMax wrote:Because they may not be a safety issue anymore, but they could still be a operational/commercial issue. But I assume Boeing and their customers worked that out in the past 3 months...
I recall reading that all the adaptations completely negated all weight advantages of the lithium batteries.

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by RoMax » 25 Apr 2013, 12:20

earthman wrote: I recall reading that all the adaptations completely negated all weight advantages of the lithium batteries.
Boeing said the whole package adds 60 kg( or was it lbs? Quite a difference, but I should look it up again as I only remember it was "60" xp ), they said the impact on the whole aircraft was quite limited and the advantages of the lithium batteries were still significant enough to continue working with them instead of going back to traditional cadmium batteries.

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by KriVa » 25 Apr 2013, 13:59

LOT will resume long haul service with the 787 from June 5th.
Thomas

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by sn26567 » 25 Apr 2013, 14:40

KriVa wrote:LOT will resume long haul service with the 787 from June 5th.
To Chicago, then to New York, Toronto and Bejing. With SP-LRA and LRB that will be fitted with the new battery packs in ... Addis-Abeba (Ethiopian will probably the first airline to re-introduce the 787).

SP-LRC, which was used by Boeing for the certification flights, will only be delivered to LOT later in June or in July.
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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by earthman » 25 Apr 2013, 16:40

RoMax wrote:
earthman wrote: I recall reading that all the adaptations completely negated all weight advantages of the lithium batteries.
Boeing said the whole package adds 60 kg( or was it lbs? Quite a difference, but I should look it up again as I only remember it was "60" xp ), they said the impact on the whole aircraft was quite limited and the advantages of the lithium batteries were still significant enough to continue working with them instead of going back to traditional cadmium batteries.
As I said, it negates any weight advantage. The weight was probably not the only reason they chose lithium batteries (for example, they can provide more power).

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Re: Boeing 787 news

Post by MD-11forever » 26 Apr 2013, 11:54

Japan lets Dreamliners fly; commercial flights to resume in June

TOKYO, April 26 (UPI) -- All Nippon Airways and Japan Airlines can resume flying their grounded Boeing 787 Dreamliners, the Japanese Transport Ministry said. The Dreamliners had been grounded for more than three months after reports of burning batteries on two Japanese planes.
The airlines were given the go-ahead to put the planes in the air Friday, beginning with test flights. The ministry's decision came after a similar decision by the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration to let the 787 jet resume flying after approval of Boeing's modified battery system last week.
Other carriers around the world also were preparing to resume flights of the 787s at an early date. All Nippon Airways and JAL, the world's two largest 787 operators, began installing the modified lithium-ion battery on their fleets and plan to conduct test flights before proceeding with commercial operations in June at the earliest, the report said.
Kyodo said Ethiopian Airlines expects to resume its 787 operations by Saturday. United Airlines, the only U.S. airline with 787s in its fleet, is looking to resume flights in late May.

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