Boeing 787 news

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sn26567
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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by sn26567 »

MR_Boeing wrote:Also important to note, United announced the initial shedule of their 787's:

Starting in October with domestic services out of Houston to United hubs. Then, as from 4 December the first international route will be launched...to Amsterdam (daily on Houston-AMS):

Code: Select all

UA058 IAH1545 – 0815+1AMS 788 D
UA059 AMS1000 – 1345IAH 788 D
On January 3 daily Los Angeles-Tokyo Narita will start, 7 January is the start date for 5 weekly Houston-Lagos, 4 February start of daily Houston-LHR, Houston-Los Angeles will also get sheduled 787 service as from February, on March 30th daily Los Angeles-Shanghai will start and Denver-Tokyo Narita daily as from March 31 and Houston-Denver sheduled service as from April.
United have changed their mind. First of all, because their 787s will be coming at a slower rate than anticipated, second because they deem Japan a more important market than The Netherlands.

Therefore, the launch of IAH-AMS (Houston-Amsterdam) by 787 is postponed from 4 December to 24 February 2013, and the initial international route for United's 787 will be LAX-NRT (Los Angeles to Tokyo Narita).

By curiosity, I have looked at the seat map of United's 787, and I was horrified to discover that the economy class will have a 3-3-3 seating. I then looked at other airlines, and I found out that only ANA and JAL have the 2-4-2 seating that was initially in Boeing's mind. LOT, United, Norwegian have already disclosed their 3-3-3 seating. Air India and Ethiopian Airlines don't say anything in their outdated website, neither does Qatar Airways. I would think that Ethiopian will behave correctly, because their 777 is still 3-3-3 when many airlines like Air France/KLM have switched to 3-4-3.

Does anyone have a clue on how the existing and future 787s will be configured in Y class ?
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RoMax
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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by RoMax »

The big majority of the airlines will go for the 3-3-3 configuration resulting in about the same as we see in the 77W of an increasing amount of airlines. I believe even BA will get the 3-3-3 (tough I should check if that were rumours or if that was confirmed by them).

Btw, United finished FAA certification for their 787 operations and they'll start commercial flights on Monday. Their second aircraft was delivered this week, quite unexpected as United indicated in the press their 787's were seriously delayed (they didn't indicate that a second frame was comming soon) and even more 'special' the aircraft did just TWO flights. A B-1 test flight of Boeing and a C-1 test flight by United. That's not so special for mature programs like the 737 or 777 (some airlines don't even operate C-1 flights anymore like Southwest on their 737's), but for the 787 this is quite new, indicating that the program is getting more and more maturity. Tough this one was not the first, several 787's delivered this month did just two or three test flights. Especially the frames that don't need rework anymore (like this second UA aircraft) seem to get away with very few test flights compared to the previous months.
Another 787 was delivered to ANA this week (also unexpected). This was LN63 (a reworked aircraft) and it did 3 test flights prior to delivery.
This brings the total amount of deliveries on 7 for October, matching the number of September.

November could basicly see even more deliveries. But again some major problems, the biggest being the CAAC from China. They still didn't certify the aircraft and it seems they are not in the mood to do so in the immediate future due to a conflict with Boeing. Two Chinese 787's that have already flown (1 each for Hainan and China Southern) have been stored by Boeing and many more 787's that are in production and rework potentially face storage.

Also Air India may see a delivery comming week, that aircraft should have been delivered in October, but yeay, it's Air India isn't it...

But there are many more potential deliveries:
Two for Qatar, two for LOT (at least one, the other may be December), one for Ethiopian, two more for United, two AI's, and one for LAN.

Also Boeing started with a terrible job: rework on one of the "terrible teens" stored on the runway. LN15 was planned for ANA, but that may change as some airlines are not not going to take their planned "terrible teens", airlines like Transaero, Lion Air, Norwegian... may take these instead. Anyway, it will take MONTHS before we see these aircraft comming out of EMC again. Rework on these aircraft may take up to 5-6 months (A LOT changed in the 787-design since these aircraft were assembled and what was not changed, was not yet finished :p ).

Anyway, with already 30 787's delivered this year (33 in 2011/2012) Boeing already achieved the lower end of their goal of 787 deliveries this year. Should check their exact rate they planned, but I believe they planned 30-45 this year. And we still have two potential big months comming, if the CAAC problems get solved they may even go way over the 45 deliveries.

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by jimyvr »

sn26567 wrote: By curiosity, I have looked at the seat map of United's 787, and I was horrified to discover that the economy class will have a 3-3-3 seating. I then looked at other airlines, and I found out that only ANA and JAL have the 2-4-2 seating that was initially in Boeing's mind. LOT, United, Norwegian have already disclosed their 3-3-3 seating. Air India and Ethiopian Airlines don't say anything in their outdated website, neither does Qatar Airways. I would think that Ethiopian will behave correctly, because their 777 is still 3-3-3 when many airlines like Air France/KLM have switched to 3-4-3.

Does anyone have a clue on how the existing and future 787s will be configured in Y claass ?
ANA Domestic 787 is also 3-3-3 in Y
ET is 3-3-3
QR is 3-3-3
Thomson is likely 3-3-3
AI probably 3-3-3

As for UA, the first batch of 787 are for CO crews therefore it uses CO's configuration of 3-3-3. The ones for UA may still be the generous 2-4-2.

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by sn26567 »

Thanks Jim. I don't think 2-4-2 is generous: it is a normal layout. It's the 3-3-3 that is tight!
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cnc
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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by cnc »

jimyvr wrote: As for UA, the first batch of 787 are for CO crews therefore it uses CO's configuration of 3-3-3. The ones for UA may still be the generous 2-4-2.
all UA 788's will have the 2-2-2 | 3-3-3 config ;)

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by RoMax »

Boeing's sales team was granted permission to start formal talks with airlines and leasing companies on the 787-10X. Basicly this mean they can collect MoU's and LoI's to prove the market demand. Eventually (expected later this year) the board has to give final approval to offer the aircraft for sale (Boeing officialy says it will depend on the market response in the comming period).

What's the 787-10X?
- It's an 18ft stretch over the 206ft-long 787-9, increasing capacity by 43 pax (so a 320-seater).
- It's intended as an A333-killer with exceptionally low seat-mile costs.
- Range is intended to be 6,700-6,750nm
- MTOW will be 551,750lb or almost 7,000lb more than the 787-9
- Engines will be the new PIP II (performance improvement package) version of the GEnX and the RR Trent 1000 TEN (thrust efficiency new technology). (for more info on the engines, see below)

EIS is expected to be around 2018-2019, but not confirmed by Boeing as it'll depend on the time they'll formally offer the 787-10X. Aircraft main targets are Middle East- Europe and Asia and the transatlantic market. British Airways and Singapore Airlines (or Scoot) are expected as early customers (with other airlines/lease companies like LH Group, Eva Air, ILFC, ALC, Etihad,... also shown their interest).

The GEnX-1B PIP II certification is well underway and will be introduced on the full 787-family (and I believe also in a slightly different version on the 748). RR is developing the Trent 1000 TEN, a new version of the current Trent 1000 with new technologies of the newer XWB-engines (A350) to remove the technology gap between the 787 and A350 engines. Introduction on the 787-8/9 is planned for early 2016, and they signed a memorendum of understanding with Boeing earlier this year to offer this engine for the 787-10X also. It's planned to reduce fuel burn by another 3% compared to the current Trent 1000 Package B.

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by wernerrav4 »

Normally it was foreseen in the planning by Boeing that LOT received their first dreamliner today and that this aircraft would stay in the Us for crew training untill delivery flight on nov 14th to Warsaw. I cannot find any confirmation of this news today,anyone?

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

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wernerrav4 wrote:Normally it was foreseen in the planning by Boeing that LOT received their first dreamliner today and that this aircraft would stay in the Us for crew training untill delivery flight on nov 14th to Warsaw. I cannot find any confirmation of this news today,anyone?
IIRC, the delivery (money changed hands) was yesterday, 9 November, but the delivery ceremony will be Monday, 12 November.

Deliveries to date are:

16 to All Nippon Airways,

6 to Japan Airlines,

3 to Air India,

3 to Ethiopian,

2 to United Airlines,

2 to LAN (Chile),

2 to Qatar Airways,

and

1 to LOT Polish Airlines.

There are several finished and awaiting delivery but Air India is having trouble arranging financing and China is playing their political games. Boeing is putting the completed airframes for Hainan Airlines and China Southern Airlines into long term storage.
ANA should take delivery of two more 787-8s before the end of the year bringing their total to date to 18. That is half of the 36 they have on order. Deliveries of their thirty 787-9s should start late next year.
United should also get 3 more before the end of this year and Qatar and LOT another 2 each.
JAL, LAN and Ehtiopian should each take one more between now and the end of December.

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by RoMax »

We can add Qatar Airways as future 787-10X customer. They showed huge interest in that aircraft at the official delivery ceremony of their first 787 (they took two already, but they still need some interior work, but this is outside Boeing's job, so QR already took delivery of the aircraft, service will launch on 20 November between Doha and Dubai (up to 4 daily) and on 1 December flights to LHR will start).

QR confirmed they were one of the many airlines that were contacted by Boeing to talk about the 787-10X. Qatar says that the -10X like promised by Boeing will be an aircraft with "one of the best seat-mile costs of any airlines". They have 60 firm orders + options and they say a major part of that will probably be -10X as they now want the board of Boeing to approve the aircraft.

Basicly Boeing says they are talking with several airlines on "who will become the launch customer".

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by PYX »

wernerrav4 wrote:Normally it was foreseen in the planning by Boeing that LOT received their first dreamliner today and that this aircraft would stay in the Us for crew training untill delivery flight on nov 14th to Warsaw. I cannot find any confirmation of this news today,anyone?
It is on its way,

http://www.flightradar24.com/LOT9787

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

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PYX wrote:It is on its way,

http://www.flightradar24.com/LOT9787
Entering Polish air space!

The arrival at WAW can be followed live on this page: https://www.facebook.com/LotniskoChopin ... 684&ref=nf
André
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wernerrav4
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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by wernerrav4 »

PYX wrote:
wernerrav4 wrote:Normally it was foreseen in the planning by Boeing that LOT received their first dreamliner today and that this aircraft would stay in the Us for crew training untill delivery flight on nov 14th to Warsaw. I cannot find any confirmation of this news today,anyone?
It is on its way,

http://www.flightradar24.com/LOT9787
Thanks that is good news :D

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sn26567
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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by sn26567 »

Oops! Turning around for a new landing trial ?
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Zorba
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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by Zorba »

sn26567 wrote:Oops! Turning around for a new landing trial ?
Just a fly by, nothing special.
Tot hier en verder

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by Boeing767copilot »

LOT Boeing 787 Dreamliner will visit 5 times Brussels Airport in december.

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by RoMax »

This week Boeing added a 787BBJ order and 5 new 787 orders from (an) unidentified customer(s).
Besides that, Avianca came out as the customer for 3 previously listed 787-orders (adding to their previous order of 12, so now they have 15 on order).

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by RoMax »

Problems between Boeing and the Chinese CAAC doesn't seem to be resolved fast. Hainan now states they don't expect their 787's before the second quarter of 2013. China Southern faces simular delays.

Besides that HNA Group's chairman stated they are thinking about changing their 787 order (partly) to a 748i order, on the other hand they are in talks with Airbus to cancel the order for 10 A380's.
It seems they were too optimistic with ordering the A380 and now believe the smaller 748i will fit.

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by RoMax »

You can also add Cathay Pacific as possible future 787-10 customer. They previously decided to go with the A350 instead of the 787 for long haul replacements and expansion. But now they're looking at the 787-10 as A330-300 replacement (for themselfves or Dragonair?) for their 'regional' routes. They say the 787-10 is about the same size, with a bigger range (tough smaller than their planned real long haul aircraft) and much better seat/mile costs compared to the A333.
Tough they say they are still far away from a real order, but they'll continue to look at what Boeing can offer.

That's a major thing for Boeing as Cathay Pacific first stepped away from the 787 completely.

The big advantage of the 787-10 is that it's the biggest version of the family. Making it a simple stretch of the 787-9 makes it only slightly more heavy, while the seat/mile costs are much better. It's an aircraft that's perfect for 'regional' routes in Asia (where a lot of A333's are in use) and the shorter long haul routes (Europe-Africa, Europe- US East coast). The Airbus A350 has a similur sized aircraft, with longer range (the 787-10 is situated between the A350-800 and A350-900), but for the shorter routes these aircraft have (much) higher seat/mile cost, especially the A350-800 which is designed as a shrink of the -900 instead of an optimised smaller design, making it quite heavy. As a result, for regional and the shorter long haul routes, the 787-10 is much cheaper.

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by SN056M »

Boeing767copilot wrote:LOT Boeing 787 Dreamliner will visit 5 times Brussels Airport in december.
Dates ???
Marc

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Re: Boeing 787 and 748 news

Post by sn26567 »

I also wonder when in December. According to LOT, these are the 787 flights to/from BRU:

WARSAW – BRUSSELS - WARSAW

LO 233 03-Jan-2013 WARSAW 16:20 18:30 BRUSSELS
LO 234 03-Jan-2013 BRUSSELS 19:30 21:30 WARSAW
LO 235 05-Jan-2013 WARSAW 07:00 09:10 BRUSSELS
LO 236 05-Jan-2013 BRUSSELS 10:10 12:10 WARSAW
LO 233 06-Jan-2013 WARSAW 16:20 18:30 BRUSSELS
LO 234 06-Jan-2013 BRUSSELS 19:30 21:30 WARSAW
LO 233 09-Jan-2013 WARSAW 16:20 18:30 BRUSSELS
LO 234 09-Jan-2013 BRUSSELS 19:30 21:30 WARSAW
LO 233 10-Jan-2013 WARSAW 16:20 18:30 BRUSSELS
LO 234 10-Jan-2013 BRUSSELS 19:30 21:30 WARSAW
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