Tax on expensive air tickets ?

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airazurxtror
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Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by airazurxtror »

The Belgian Government plan to tax the business and first class air tickets :

http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/economie ... 830358.php

During the presentation measures budget last Friday, the Minister of Finance, Didier Reynders (MR) had rejected the idea of tax on air tickets. But since then, the Council of Ministers decided to establish a working group to consider the introduction of such a tax. The group only checks if it is possible to create a tax on tickets for first class and business class. The idea of taxing also tickets in economy class or low cost has been abandoned.

http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail. ... d=MT37U19L

DeltaWiskey
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by DeltaWiskey »

Why? Because 95% (or probably more) fly economy class out of Belgium?

Air Key West
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by Air Key West »

Given that only a minority of passengers fly Business or First class, the tax will have to be very high to bring in any significant money.
This shows again the lack of imagination and competence of our ministers.
I would like to suggest to them and their working group to consider an additional solidarity tax of 10 % on the ministers' salaries.
In favor of quality air travel.

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RoMax
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by RoMax »

Great, so now they want to 'hurt' the high yielding traffic to BRU (as this would not hurt CRL as mentionned in the article)... :roll:
Brussels is for many airlines a high yielding market (EU, NATO, brussels is important business/conferention city, diamond industry Antwerp,...). And now they want to let these pax pay even more (and as previously mentionned the tax must be quite high as the business/first class traffic is a minority), great idea... :roll:

I said it before, the only case an extra fly tax is not that negative is when all countries do this. When France, the Netherlands , the UK and Germany have an air tax it doesn't really matter from where the pax fly. But even than the business traffic can decrease because companies can avoid flying.

Air Key West
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by Air Key West »

And why not an extra tax on all first class train tickets ?
In favor of quality air travel.

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cathay belgium
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by cathay belgium »

Hi,

Why don't tax the EI-XXX registrated birds ? ;)

I think this tax would be discrimination in any way,..
altough it would hurt only rich flying people, I guess they better start taxing luxury cars,leased cars,
1st class trains, foreign vehicles, .. are just start with a REAL GOVERNMENT ! :mrgreen: ( for once ) !!

CX-B
New types flown 2020 : A321neo,B781

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quixoticguide
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by quixoticguide »

Ryanair hasn't business/first class. So they wouldn't leave. Smart.

I think more taxes is a very bad idea, Belgium/Flanders has one of the highest taxes in the world.
Less business class means more expensive economy class. If you know that business class is four time economy fare en first is eleven times economy fare or more!

What percentage off an airline ticket consist of taxes today?
Visit my flights on: http://www.quixoticguide.com

LJ
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by LJ »

MR_Boeing wrote:I said it before, the only case an extra fly tax is not that negative is when all countries do this. When France, the Netherlands , the UK and Germany have an air tax it doesn't really matter from where the pax fly. But even than the business traffic can decrease because companies can avoid flying.
Germany already has such a tax (though not exclusive for First and Business class passengers). The UK thinks about introducing a tax (though again for all pax, not only F and C class) and The Netherlands had such a tax. Anyway, I don't think it will mean less traffic. First, most companies already decreased corporate flying to a minimum. Second, many companies require their employees to travel Y class (the exception being long haul). However, such a policy does not generate a lot of money and it's doubtful whether it's allowed under EU law.

Passenger
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by Passenger »

Today, the Flemish government has rejected the new tax:

- because it's only planned for F and C, only passengers at the Flemish airports BRU and ANR will have to pay tax. Almost all passengers at the Walloon airports CRL and LGG fly Y and are therefore excluded from the new tax.

- there will be a general CO²-tax on all tickets as from 2012

- the Convention of Chicago prohibits a general tax on aviation if the tax is not used for aviation related matters.

Conclusion after today's statement from the Flemish government: there will not be a political majority within the federal parliament to implement the new tax as presented by Didier Reynders. So it seems it's bye bye tax proposal!

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Zorba
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by Zorba »

Today Elio Di Rupo presented his nota, and it seems the tax is back!

* Aanpassing van het voordeel in natura in functie van de milieuweerslag (uitstoot van CO2) en de waarde van het voertuig, zonder verhoging van de lasten op de kleine voertuigen;
* Invoering van een taks op de vliegtuigtickets 1ste klas en business class

Of course this is nothing official yet, but still...

http://deredactie.be/polopoly_fs/1.1058 ... DiRupo.pdf
Tot hier en verder

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Passenger wrote:Today, the Flemish government has rejected the new tax:

- because it's only planned for F and C, only passengers at the Flemish airports BRU and ANR will have to pay tax. Almost all passengers at the Walloon airports CRL and LGG fly Y and are therefore excluded from the new tax.
And if I were Wallonian, I'd be quick to reply that nobody stopped the Flemish from having their own low-cost airport. Didn't want one? Too bad, but don't come and whine!

Passenger
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by Passenger »

His royal highness Elio Di Rupo the First isn't as clever and as brilliant as he thaught he was. By naming the tax on flight tickets as one of the many measures to fill up the Belgian budget deficit, his royal highness clearly says that it is a general tax, and clearly not an aviation related tax.

The convention of Chicago clearly states that a passenger tax may only be used for aviation related matters. So the good news for aviation is: it's too late now for his royal highness: he has put his document online = there is no way back for him. I mean: there is no way forward for the tax. It won't happen!

Those who want to read how this beloved country will be saved: here is the rescue plan:
http://www.dekamer.be/kvvcr/pdf_section ... versie.pdf
and/or
http://www.lachambre.be/kvvcr/pdf_secti ... %20DEF.pdf

regi
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by regi »

Passenger wrote:His royal highness Elio Di Rupo the First isn't as clever and as brilliant as he thaught he was. By naming the tax on flight tickets as one of the many measures to fill up the Belgian budget deficit, his royal highness clearly says that it is a general tax, and clearly not an aviation related tax.

The convention of Chicago clearly states that a passenger tax may only be used for aviation related matters. So the good news for aviation is: it's too late now for his royal highness: he has put his document online = there is no way back for him. I mean: there is no way forward for the tax. It won't happen!

Those who want to read how this beloved country will be saved: here is the rescue plan:
http://www.dekamer.be/kvvcr/pdf_section ... versie.pdf
and/or
http://www.lachambre.be/kvvcr/pdf_secti ... %20DEF.pdf
So this means that in the presentation of EDR there has slipped a dangerous detail? Well, as you explain it is illegal, so it won't work.
But what with those luxury seats with the charter companies, who also depart from Liège? Do those seats fall under "business" class or not?
And can a ticket with an added price for exit seat, fixed seat number and fast boarding also being considered as "business "class? So those goodies on the LCC flights at Walloon airports can be extra taxed as well?
All in all, I have my doubts about the legality of this presentation by EDR. Simply because I doubt ( please correct me if I am wrong) that first class and business class have a definition in Belgian law.
On the other hand, it is just a proposal. So if it would come to legislation, I bet that some people will use the same arguments as I just did above.

Passenger
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by Passenger »

In 1944, all countries agreed that aviation may not been seen as income source, simply because people fly. Belgium accepted the ICAO Convention of Chicago. Article 15 states: "... No fees, dues or other charges shall beimposed by any contracting State in respect solely of the right of transit over or entry into or exit from its territory of any aircraft of a contracting State or persons or property thereon..."

Source: http://www.icao.int/cgi/goto_m.pl?/icao ... /7300.html

It's quite funny to see that Di Rupo now makes the same mistake as Reynders did not so long ago. Bottom line for Belgian politicians, desperately looking for easy money, indeed is: forget it! Install VAT on train tickets. Install a "railway station tax" - like aviation passengers have to pay for their airports. Ask railway passengers for a "security tax", to cover the expenses from B-Rail Security. But do not install a general aviation tax, unless you call it a CO2-levy and unless all passengers (including those from Charleroi!) have to pay for it and unless you also charge it for cargo flights, VIP-flights, military flights, etc. The aviation industry will then make sure that this tax indeed is used only for anti aviation pollution measures. Which means: no benefit for the government.

Air Key West
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by Air Key West »

I am fed up, too, to pay so many taxes on air tickets. Hopefully, you are right that taxes on air tickets are illegal under the Chicago Convention, but then, how do you explain that the Netherlands, if my memory serves me right, had such a tax and Germany applies one at this very moment.

Should this tax however go through as it is formulated today, I suggest that airlines, or at least b.air, renames its three European classes into Economy Plus, Economy and Tourist class. Do it once the decision is made to apply the tax on Business and First class. But I am probably too naive. Then, they will start to tax premium economy tickets, won't they ?
In favor of quality air travel.

Passenger
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by Passenger »

Air Key West wrote:I am fed up, too, to pay so many taxes on air tickets. Hopefully, you are right that taxes on air tickets are illegal under the Chicago Convention, but then, how do you explain that the Netherlands, if my memory serves me right, had such a tax and Germany applies one at this very moment.
When it called CO²-tax and when the income is 100% used to fight pollution from aviation, it's allowed.

Air Key West
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Re: Tax on expensive air tickets ?

Post by Air Key West »

OK, however, Di Rupo's Note says (I quote) "Introducting a tax on air tickets for First and Business class". That's all.
In favor of quality air travel.

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