Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 »

Stij wrote: 16 Jul 2019, 09:47 Off topic, but an update, my folks got their bags... with a delay of 2,5 days and a distaste for SN and BRU...

I know SN isn’t at fault here... but try to explain that to 2 70+ people...

Stij
At least they've got their bags. When I flew from AMS (never again!) three years ago, my daughters luggage got left behind as well. Never got it back. No-one knew, no-one gave a damn.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers »

All that is very true, but it is not the full story. Shit does and will happen, sure enough.
But it is possible to mitigate the risks by appropriate expenditure in maintenance and in capacity growth.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by sn26567 »

Ansett wrote: 16 Jul 2019, 18:47 (Don't know what happened. Just wanted to correct Belgian into Belgium) :o
You pressed "Reply with quote" (last icon) instead of "Edit post" (first icon). Happens to me all the time.

P.S. I corrected for you.
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JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN »

Not sure this is the right topic for this message.

Mr. Feist is confirmed to be CEO for the next 6 years.
So that means his shareholders are very happy.

Let us hope there will be more attention for the PAX now:
* do something about the queues at immigration: make e-gates work always and put more police men at busy times
* maintaine baggage systemproperly and avaoid disastrous breakdowns
* make sure that subcontractors can also work at reasonable rates, so that we do not have all this wildcat strikes, creating a VERY NEGATIVE image of the airport
* do something about the parts of the airport that look too much as build in the 50's and very desolte and old fashioned
* make and promote BRU as a convenient airport which places PAX first
* communicate about compensation program for when it goes wrong at airport (when airport is responsible)
* do not again postpone extension Pier A West
* work together with SN to make BRU a real hub and make more money (also attract more airlines + destinations + frequencies)
* use your influence to fire the present trouble-making CEO at Skeyes, responsible for millions of losses and bad reputation of BRU and our country.
* ...

I wish him good luck and great diplomatic skills when negotiating with the different governments in this country.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis »

JOVAN wrote: 19 Jul 2019, 10:29 Not sure this is the right topic for this message.

Mr. Feist is confirmed to be CEO for the next 6 years.
So that means his shareholders are very happy.

Let us hope there will be more attention for the PAX now:
* do something about the queues at immigration: make e-gates work always and put more police men at busy times
* maintaine baggage systemproperly and avaoid disastrous breakdowns
* make sure that subcontractors can also work at reasonable rates, so that we do not have all this wildcat strikes, creating a VERY NEGATIVE image of the airport
* do something about the parts of the airport that look too much as build in the 50's and very desolte and old fashioned
* make and promote BRU as a convenient airport which places PAX first
* communicate about compensation program for when it goes wrong at airport (when airport is responsible)
* do not again postpone extension Pier A West
* work together with SN to make BRU a real hub and make more money (also attract more airlines + destinations + frequencies)
* use your influence to fire the present trouble-making CEO at Skeyes, responsible for millions of losses and bad reputation of BRU and our country.
* ...

I wish him good luck and great diplomatic skills when negotiating with the different governments in this country.
Not only shareholders are very happy, the employees of BRU are very happy with a very warm and humble boss, friend, CEO. This we don't see much anymore. He is very visible in the company, very open.

This made, together with all the effort of the employees, the disaster of 22/03 and many other things during many years that our airport was growing in the very right direction.

I will not respond to all your points as this is internal affair but regarding the look of the 50's, sorry but in this a huge jump is made. Do you remember a couple of years ago the air side view you had on the Skyhall and buildings next to it? This all is gone and replaced by very modern buildings and it is still ongoing. From the land side, very old maintenance buildings are also removed. The whole Brucargo is under renovation. This is a continuous project...

BRU and SN are very well working well. The teams are working hard and have contacts with a lot of potential airlines to come to BRU. But don't think if you want them that they fly right away to you. This needs time and preparation. And the capital of Brussels is really not helping in this with their noise restrictions, penalties, on a short way to make it very difficult for you to fly.

Pier A West will be extended, no worries

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 »

First point, about border control: not under the control of BAC or mr. Feist. The authorities fail to attract and keep enough staff to man the boxes.

theeuropean
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by theeuropean »

You probably can't say anything, but even a small hint if we will get some new routes or airlines would be nice or some sort of expansion by existing carriers would be nice. You don't have to say who or to where, but just a yes or a no would suffice.

JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN »

Conti764 wrote: 19 Jul 2019, 13:44 First point, about border control: not under the control of BAC or mr. Feist. The authorities fail to attract and keep enough staff to man the boxes.
It is not "the Authorities" who fail to etc.

It is the local commander(s) who reign in their own little kingdom.
It is very much like local heads of police in many cities or districts of big cities (like Brussels). Making their own rule and and exercizing their frustrations on the citizens, passengers.
The top of the Police is often manned by non-competent people.

Similar story in CRL: they still have the 'tent' there, only because the commander wants it that way.

Skeyes CEO is a similar story. A former Union guy who now plays the little dictator.

The PETERS-principle is very present in many sectors.

Still BRU CEO should be able to convince higher levels of authority, to the benefit of the PAX.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 »

JOVAN wrote: 19 Jul 2019, 19:37
Conti764 wrote: 19 Jul 2019, 13:44 First point, about border control: not under the control of BAC or mr. Feist. The authorities fail to attract and keep enough staff to man the boxes.
It is not "the Authorities" who fail to etc.

It is the local commander(s) who reign in their own little kingdom.
It is very much like local heads of police in many cities or districts of big cities (like Brussels). Making their own rule and and exercizing their frustrations on the citizens, passengers.
The top of the Police is often manned by non-competent people.

Similar story in CRL: they still have the 'tent' there, only because the commander wants it that way.

Skeyes CEO is a similar story. A former Union guy who now plays the little dictator.

The PETERS-principle is very present in many sectors.

Still BRU CEO should be able to convince higher levels of authority, to the benefit of the PAX.
It are the authorities who fail in the first place due to lack of funding, the federal police is heavily underfunded. They fail to to attract fresh officers and when they force new recruits to man border control, these people leave at the first occasion they get.

b720
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by b720 »

Ansett wrote: 20 Jul 2019, 00:38 Why don't federal "policemen" like to work at BRU ?
The answer to this question is crucial to solve the problem.
A simple (simplistic) solution to the problem is money.
They will love to work at BRU if they are paid more (for instance, through bonuses).
There is no money you will say.
OK, the let's increase the airport taxe by ? 50 cents, one euro ? per passenger !
Additonal money (whatever its origin) will make the system work.
They will fight to be allowed to work at BRU if it pays really well.
But still, why don't they now want to work at BRU ?
I have an answer, but not sure it's the right one.
Anyone volunteering to answer the question ?
And why are they to be paid more? It is a very luxurious environment to work at, compared to many other places they are deployed at. No hardship at all! Security risk? That is part of of their overall job..they are at risk whenever they are called to any situation. Taxes at BRU are high enough as they are.

AIRMARSHAL
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by AIRMARSHAL »

JOVAN wrote: 19 Jul 2019, 10:29 Not sure this is the right topic for this message.

Mr. Feist is confirmed to be CEO for the next 6 years.
So that means his shareholders are very happy.

Let us hope there will be more attention for the PAX now:
* do something about the queues at immigration: make e-gates work always and put more police men at busy times
* maintaine baggage systemproperly and avaoid disastrous breakdowns
* make sure that subcontractors can also work at reasonable rates, so that we do not have all this wildcat strikes, creating a VERY NEGATIVE image of the airport
* do something about the parts of the airport that look too much as build in the 50's and very desolte and old fashioned
* make and promote BRU as a convenient airport which places PAX first
* communicate about compensation program for when it goes wrong at airport (when airport is responsible)
* do not again postpone extension Pier A West
* work together with SN to make BRU a real hub and make more money (also attract more airlines + destinations + frequencies)
* use your influence to fire the present trouble-making CEO at Skeyes, responsible for millions of losses and bad reputation of BRU and our country.
* ...

I wish him good luck and great diplomatic skills when negotiating with the different governments in this country.
Meanwhile Brussels Airport is nowhere to be found in the Skytrax top 100 airport ranking 2019.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis »

AIRMARSHAL wrote: 20 Jul 2019, 09:58
JOVAN wrote: 19 Jul 2019, 10:29 Not sure this is the right topic for this message.

Mr. Feist is confirmed to be CEO for the next 6 years.
So that means his shareholders are very happy.

Let us hope there will be more attention for the PAX now:
* do something about the queues at immigration: make e-gates work always and put more police men at busy times
* maintaine baggage systemproperly and avaoid disastrous breakdowns
* make sure that subcontractors can also work at reasonable rates, so that we do not have all this wildcat strikes, creating a VERY NEGATIVE image of the airport
* do something about the parts of the airport that look too much as build in the 50's and very desolte and old fashioned
* make and promote BRU as a convenient airport which places PAX first
* communicate about compensation program for when it goes wrong at airport (when airport is responsible)
* do not again postpone extension Pier A West
* work together with SN to make BRU a real hub and make more money (also attract more airlines + destinations + frequencies)
* use your influence to fire the present trouble-making CEO at Skeyes, responsible for millions of losses and bad reputation of BRU and our country.
* ...

I wish him good luck and great diplomatic skills when negotiating with the different governments in this country.
Meanwhile Brussels Airport is nowhere to be found in the Skytrax top 100 airport ranking 2019.
Skytrax is a system based on money which they receive from airports to be visible there. So the more you pay, the better you are visible.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 »

b720 wrote: 20 Jul 2019, 09:05
Ansett wrote: 20 Jul 2019, 00:38 Why don't federal "policemen" like to work at BRU ?
The answer to this question is crucial to solve the problem.
A simple (simplistic) solution to the problem is money.
They will love to work at BRU if they are paid more (for instance, through bonuses).
There is no money you will say.
OK, the let's increase the airport taxe by ? 50 cents, one euro ? per passenger !
Additonal money (whatever its origin) will make the system work.
They will fight to be allowed to work at BRU if it pays really well.
But still, why don't they now want to work at BRU ?
I have an answer, but not sure it's the right one.
Anyone volunteering to answer the question ?
And why are they to be paid more? It is a very luxurious environment to work at, compared to many other places they are deployed at. No hardship at all! Security risk? That is part of of their overall job..they are at risk whenever they are called to any situation. Taxes at BRU are high enough as they are.
They'll have to come up with some incentive to attract and keep officers.

Back in the days of the Rijkswacht/Gendarmerie it was easy. You were assigned to a post and only based on seniority hou could leave (often closer to home). Nowadays people are free to join any avaiable unit/zone even if they're straight out of police school. So young officers who are assigned to the border police leave again as soon as possible. Combined with older officers going on pension.

Many of them don't like to be in a cubicle for over 6 hours per shift...

b720
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by b720 »

I assume that the job is mentally stimulating as well.. could not be monotonous as they are detecting forgeries etc..they follow training and very regular updates concerning international passports and new regulations ..
I am sure that there are much more boring police jobs they can find themselves in..

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 »

I'm not sure boring is the right term. Repitive covers it better, I guess. And they have to stay focused since everybody who entered but wasn't supposed to can be traced back to the officer who let him in. And all that with hundreds or even more people queuing and being pissed off (understandably) after a huge waiting time.

One solution might be adopting the e-gates. If I'm not mistaken (I've been told) these gates only work with passports. Updating or replacing them to accept Belgian e-id's would mean no Belgian citizen (still the bulk at BRU) would have to pass a fysical control.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by sn26567 »

Conti764 wrote: 20 Jul 2019, 17:59
One solution might be adopting the e-gates. If I'm not mistaken (I've been told) these gates only work with passports. Updating or replacing them to accept Belgian e-id's would mean no Belgian citizen (still the bulk at BRU) would have to pass a fysical control.
I cannot understand why the e-gates have not been conceived from the beginning to be able to scan Belgian ID cards, representing probably 50% of the travellers. Also many other European ID cards have a chip that could easily be read by an automatic machine at the gates, thus relieving police officers from checking thousands of passengers and giving them more time for suspicious cases.
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JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN »

Conti764 wrote: 20 Jul 2019, 12:30
b720 wrote: 20 Jul 2019, 09:05
Ansett wrote: 20 Jul 2019, 00:38 Why don't federal "policemen" like to work at BRU ?
The answer to this question is crucial to solve the problem.
A simple (simplistic) solution to the problem is money.
They will love to work at BRU if they are paid more (for instance, through bonuses).
There is no money you will say.
OK, the let's increase the airport taxe by ? 50 cents, one euro ? per passenger !
Additonal money (whatever its origin) will make the system work.
They will fight to be allowed to work at BRU if it pays really well.
But still, why don't they now want to work at BRU ?
I have an answer, but not sure it's the right one.
Anyone volunteering to answer the question ?
And why are they to be paid more? It is a very luxurious environment to work at, compared to many other places they are deployed at. No hardship at all! Security risk? That is part of of their overall job..they are at risk whenever they are called to any situation. Taxes at BRU are high enough as they are.
They'll have to come up with some incentive to attract and keep officers.

Back in the days of the Rijkswacht/Gendarmerie it was easy. You were assigned to a post and only based on seniority hou could leave (often closer to home). Nowadays people are free to join any avaiable unit/zone even if they're straight out of police school. So young officers who are assigned to the border police leave again as soon as possible. Combined with older officers going on pension.

Many of them don't like to be in a cubicle for over 6 hours per shift...
We really have a crisis of authority in this country.

Too many ministers of mobility, but everything seems to come to a stop.

Fragmentation is disastrous. All noses are in different directions it seems.

How can you not have enough policemen to organize a decent Passport control system, with respect for the PAX. There are 40.000 of them in Belgium ?!?!
What are they doing. They have the help of thousands of intelligent cameras.

Mr. Feist should make this passport control issue a priority. Convince the local commander to put more officers during peak hours.

With a strong Minister for this Departemnt, things could change... :roll:

b720
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by b720 »

Conti764 wrote: 20 Jul 2019, 17:59 I'm not sure boring is the right term. Repitive covers it better, I guess. And they have to stay focused since everybody who entered but wasn't supposed to can be traced back to the officer who let him in. And all that with hundreds or even more people queuing and being pissed off (understandably) after a huge waiting time.

One solution might be adopting the e-gates. If I'm not mistaken (I've been told) these gates only work with passports. Updating or replacing them to accept Belgian e-id's would mean no Belgian citizen (still the bulk at BRU) would have to pass a fysical control.
The e-gates process Belgian IDs i’ve Used my ID several times passing through the e-gates at BRU. Kids under 12 (hence families) must use the manned border control.

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by luchtzak »

Recently, I took a flight from Toronto to Brussels. The gate agent checked my passport and that was it! No further passport check, no nothing ! I don't see why any country would check a passport while leaving the country ...

I do understand the passport check while coming into the country though, but that's normal !

Jetter
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Jetter »

luchtzak wrote: 23 Jul 2019, 00:18 Recently, I took a flight from Toronto to Brussels. The gate agent checked my passport and that was it! No further passport check, no nothing ! I don't see why any country would check a passport while leaving the country ...
A number of reasons:

- To check if people overstayed their visa;
- To catch fugitives;
- To make people pay outstanding fines;
- To check if minors travel with an authorized adult.

etc.

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