Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

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SN501
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by SN501 » 26 Sep 2018, 14:19

Ansett wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 13:22
Better train connections are part of the solution. Not everybody lives near a train station where trains stop to go to BRU (even with just one stopover). However, better timetables and more frequencies can help. As to the price of the train ticket, I would suggest to the NMBS/SNCB to lower the fares for the Diabolo and to increase its frequency. If I remember well, the railway company decided to lower frequencies which were already low, because there were not enough passengers. It seems logical to me that if you increase frequencies (instead of reducing them) and lower fares, you will attract more pax and could become profitable or at least break even. Again the wrong decision. I have never taken the Diabolo. Is it at least a modern comfortable train with extra room for luggage ?

As to the parking situation at BRU, it is indeed a mess. The parking lots (especially the elevators) are poorly maintained by Interparking. It's expensive, considering that other options to go to the airport are (not always) but often far from ideal.

And the temporary drop off area seems to become the permanent drop off area, unworthy of the airport of the capital city of the 26th economy in the world (let alone the "capital" of Europe).
An increase of public transport offer is a cost. Public transport are not profitable and can't break even. So a better offer at lower prices is a double cost paid by tax-payer.

In public transport you have to find the right balance between an acceptable offer and an acceptable "economic loss".

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Vic Diesel
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Vic Diesel » 26 Sep 2018, 14:23

Robby wrote:
24 Sep 2018, 17:20
I think it has little to do with the presence of new office buildings at BRU. The office buildings themselves have quite large underground parking lots, and for instance KPMG exclusively uses the P19 lot, which is a subscriptions only parking. So in the end there is only a very limited impact on the parking space available to the pax.

Moreover, the move towards BRU by those companies is of course also intended to encourage the use of public transport instead of cars.

Kind regards
Well, it is just a bunch of occasional observations, but if you are around in P3, you can see dozens of dark (black?) Minis parking there, all with light green rear mirror covers. Those are all Deloitte employee's cars (light green is kind of a "corporate design" color for them, hence the small parts of the car having it on). I never got to spot in P3 without seeing them all around the place. And those are just the cars that you can clearly distinguish.

Parking IS a problem, but also people who are just lazy f*ckers and don't give a damn about others, leaving their cars right next to the ramp, so when you descend from one level to the other, you have to be careful not to bump into them. Odd enough, more than 90% of those cars I had this kind of displeasurable encounter with, had Dutch license plates...

But speaking of infastructure: is there not a new bus-train-whatever terminal planned at the spot of the DHL building that was torn down recently?
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, working in Brussels)

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by PttU » 26 Sep 2018, 14:33

The airport has the same problems as traffic in general: it's a risk planning to get there by car because you might be stuck in traffic, it's a risk getting there by train because there might be cancellations, strikes or other delays. The reason why one would still prefer the car is because it gives the feeling of having control: when you're in traffic you can try to find a route around it, when you're by public transport, you're dependant on when your train decides to move, and in which direction. Making the alternatives cheaper, or the car more expensive needs a way bigger difference to move people to the alternative: the cost of driving a car is way lower by perception than it is in reality and the feeling of independence and being in control of the situation is invaluable.
So if you want to reduce the amount of people coming to BRU by car, you need to have an alternative which has the image of being reliable enough, more than you need an alternative which is cheap enough or making it harder to park or get there by car.

b720
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by b720 » 26 Sep 2018, 14:37

PttU wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 14:33
The airport has the same problems as traffic in general: it's a risk planning to get there by car because you might be stuck in traffic, it's a risk getting there by train because there might be cancellations, strikes or other delays. The reason why one would still prefer the car is because it gives the feeling of having control: when you're in traffic you can try to find a route around it, when you're by public transport, you're dependant on when your train decides to move, and in which direction. Making the alternatives cheaper, or the car more expensive needs a way bigger difference to move people to the alternative: the cost of driving a car is way lower by perception than it is in reality and the feeling of independence and being in control of the situation is invaluable.
So if you want to reduce the amount of people coming to BRU by car, you need to have an alternative which has the image of being reliable enough, more than you need an alternative which is cheap enough or making it harder to park or get there by car.
Well said!

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger » 26 Sep 2018, 15:01

The Diabolo surcharge on train tickets has been made compulsary by the European Commission. Otherwise, it would be illegal state aid - illegal competition towards other airports.

convair
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by convair » 26 Sep 2018, 17:40

Flying Scout wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 15:04
I normally travel by motorbike => no traffic jams, no parking issues, no money needed. (also when travelling with Luggage!).
I assume you park your motorbike somewhere.
Flying Scout wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 15:04
If I do have more than needed, the dropoff zone is really OK and not as bad as mentionned. It's normally quicker to walk from there than look for a parking spot, go to the elevator, wait for it, ...
Drop-off zone is (almost) OK, ...provided you have someone to drop you; however, it's not always possible to sub-contract your problem. In that case, you obviously don't need to look for a parking spot!
Flying Scout wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 15:04
I have the impression that you all want to be dropped of just next to the plane and unwilling to go a single step. If so, consider a private plane from Abelag or so. ;)
Thanks for the advice.

Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Ansett » 26 Sep 2018, 17:42

Not really, Flying Scout. As far as I am concerned, I would like the former drop off area to reopen with very strict and merciless (immediate high fines) supervising, to avoid that it becomes a parking lot instead of a drop off area, as in the past.
Another and perhaps even better option could be to install barriers at the entrance of the (former) drop off zone. When you arrive, you take a ticket, you get 10 minutes free drop off, when you leave, at the exit barrier you put your ticket in the machine. If you did not exceed your free ten minutes, the barrier opens. For every extra minute you will.be charged one euro to be paid.in coins or with a bank or credit card.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers » 26 Sep 2018, 17:51

The Diabolo surcharge on train tickets has been made compulsary by the European Commission. Otherwise, it would be illegal state aid - illegal competition towards other airports.
Thanks, that is new to me. Not really a surprise, though.
When you arrive, you take a ticket, you get 10 minutes free drop off, when you leave, at the exit barrier you put your ticket in the machine. If you did not exceed your free ten minutes, the barrier opens. For every extra minute you will.be charged one euro to be paid.in coins or with a bank or credit card.
Yes, exactly what is needed. Don't other airports have such arrangements?

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skumfiduse
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by skumfiduse » 26 Sep 2018, 18:48

jan_olieslagers wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 17:51
The Diabolo surcharge on train tickets has been made compulsary by the European Commission. Otherwise, it would be illegal state aid - illegal competition towards other airports.
Thanks, that is new to me. Not really a surprise, though.
Does this also imply the level of the surcharge? As the current 10,60 euro return surcharge (5,30 euro one-way) + train ticket is not competitive when leaving from Antwerp.

The Airport Express bus is 20 euro return fare, leaving every hour, very comfortable coaches and now also accepts debet/credit card payments.
Flixbus is +/- 10 euro return fare, comfortable coaches, online payment, but by experience not very reliable.

jan_olieslagers
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers » 26 Sep 2018, 19:48

Coach/bus will be less expensive on every transfer, from 1 km to 1000km. Still many people prefer plane/train/car. Why?

convair
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by convair » 26 Sep 2018, 21:17

Ansett wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 17:42
Another and perhaps even better option could be to install barriers at the entrance of the (former) drop off zone. When you arrive, you take a ticket, you get 10 minutes free drop off, when you leave, at the exit barrier you put your ticket in the machine. If you did not exceed your free ten minutes, the barrier opens. For every extra minute you will.be charged one euro to be paid.in coins or with a bank or credit card.
Good idea, but for some people, 1 euro is too small a penalty. It should be gradually increasing, say 1 euro for the first minute, 2 for the second, 5 for the third etc...reaching a total of at least 50 euros for 15 minutes. Failing that, the lesson wouldn't be reminded very long, imho.

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by PttU » 27 Sep 2018, 00:08

jan_olieslagers wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 19:48
Coach/bus will be less expensive on every transfer, from 1 km to 1000km. Still many people prefer plane/train/car. Why?
1-1000km is quite a range, but:
* plane for speed (near the 1000km mark)
* car for flexibility
* train over coach/bus? I'm not sure about that: mostly because of specific routing (close to departure or destination), more frequent, more flexible (for shorter distances, within the country) or just more well-known than some bus/coach companies.

But that's going off-topic. However...
* BRU has the traffic issue just like the entire Brussels-region, making BRU less atttractive, especially for people going to Brussels/BRU less frequently. So other airports (national or not to far abroad) might become more interesting. If parking should become more difficult, that might scare off passengers.
* Train: making it cheaper could attract a few more passengers through that option, but I'm afraid reliability is a bigger issue.
* The Airport Express from Antwerp is indeed interesting, I don't know if there's a similar service from Gent, Liège,... There might be some potential there to lead more passengers to BRU: not only being a hub for air transport, but why not combining it with kind of a hub for bus-transport?
All that could lead more passengers to BRU, but they don't generate as much revenue as some extra shops in the terminal or office buildings around it would.

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luchtzak
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by luchtzak » 27 Sep 2018, 07:49

This bicycle path must be the worst ever! At Brussels Airport ...

b720
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by b720 » 27 Sep 2018, 10:17

Oh my! Someone’s gonna get hurt!
I assume that the path is dark at night?

flightlover
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by flightlover » 27 Sep 2018, 11:42

b720 wrote:
27 Sep 2018, 10:17
Oh my! Someone’s gonna get hurt!
I assume that the path is dark at night?
You mean the new guy who rides his bike without proper lights?

b720
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by b720 » 27 Sep 2018, 11:45

On the phone.. and smoking as Well.
On a rainy day ;-)

Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Ansett » 27 Sep 2018, 22:34

jan_olieslagers wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 17:51
When you arrive, you take a ticket, you get 10 minutes free drop off, when you leave, at the exit barrier you put your ticket in the machine. If you did not exceed your free ten minutes, the barrier opens. For every extra minute you will.be charged one euro to be paid.in coins or with a bank or credit card.
Yes, exactly what is needed. Don't other airports have such arrangements?
convair wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 21:17
Ansett wrote:
26 Sep 2018, 17:42
Another and perhaps even better option could be to install barriers at the entrance of the (former) drop off zone. When you arrive, you take a ticket, you get 10 minutes free drop off, when you leave, at the exit barrier you put your ticket in the machine. If you did not exceed your free ten minutes, the barrier opens. For every extra minute you will.be charged one euro to be paid.in coins or with a bank or credit card.
Good idea, but for some people, 1 euro is too small a penalty. It should be gradually increasing, say 1 euro for the first minute, 2 for the second, 5 for the third etc...reaching a total of at least 50 euros for 15 minutes. Failing that, the lesson wouldn't be reminded very long, imho.
It seems that we agree on the principle. That's the most important think. I tend to agree with you Convair :
it should be progressive (increasing) according to the overrun.

Anyone from Brussels Airport management or customer relations reading ? listening ?

JOVAN
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN » 27 Nov 2018, 22:26

sean1982 wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 12:25
Boavida wrote:
30 Apr 2018, 12:14
Picture from 27 april, found on twitter. Apparently, passengers had to wait about 1,5 hours for passport check. This is getting ridiculous. Tweeting "it's not our fault, it's the federal police", does not solve anything for passengers. Action is needed.

Image

Source: https://twitter.com/BrusselsAirport/sta ... 8560849920
Standard BRU day then .... I'm starting to advise everyone to avoid as much as possible. Dusseldorf is about 40 min longer drive but cheaper in tax, parking and MUCH more customer friendly. If only BA would open ANR-LHR or something, you'd never ever see me at BRU again :lol:

I was in such a long queue 2 weeks ago.
Waiting, waiting, slowly moving.
Then I suddenly saw that the automatic pasport controls were open (all on gren).
So I left the queue .

The REASON why the queue is there and so long:
the young guys and girls in green polo, with " can I help you ?." on the back are NOT DOING THERE JOB.

They just play around ( 6 on them) , chatting on the phone, making fun...

One guy had a small pancarte with the text that EU passports can use the automatic gates. But he was more hiding is than showing to the people in the queue.
When I told him to give me the pancarte and I would solve the queue in a few minutes, he called me " un raciste "

So advise to the BRU Management: put one retired and motivated volunteer there instead of 6 young unresponsible kids who only think about making fun."

Some professionalism please, BRU Management.

An airport is not a playground...

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by sn26567 » 30 Nov 2018, 21:19

Not really about infrastructure, but about ownership: Macquarie (Australia) began selling its 36% stake in Brussels Airport, with AG Insurance of Belgium as an initial candidate.
André
ex Sabena #26567

Charlie Roy
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Charlie Roy » 01 Dec 2018, 18:10

The REASON why the queue is there and so long:
the young guys and girls in green polo, with " can I help you ?." on the back are NOT DOING THERE JOB.
I pass through this passport control 3 times a month, and share your opinion 100%!

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