BRU infrastructure: future

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KriVa
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by KriVa » 20 Apr 2018, 11:02

Brussels Airport basically has been "A380 ready" for a long time. It was suitable as a diversion aerodrome, but not for regular operations, due to the lack of a proper A380 contact stand. If an A380 was to divert before, finding a stand for it might have been problematic, but BRU, in cooperation with Lufthansa, proved some years ago that it was doable, with some creative thinking in terms of gate assignment.
Why was BRU not ready for commercial A380 ops until recently? Easy, no carrier was interested in performing flights with the A380 on a regular basis, so it made no sense to invest all that money.
The fact that they have invested in a proper A380 stand might be a sign of things to come, I honestly don't know.
In my personal opinion, the fact that they have invested so much money might be a little hint, though. On the other hand, it doesn't coincide nicely with the scheduled renewal of the boarding bridges of the B-Pier. So for all we know, they may have just upgraded 233 to A380 spec because it was bound to get new boarding bridges anyway.
Thomas

JOVAN
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN » 20 Apr 2018, 12:06

737MAX wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 10:57
airbuske wrote:
19 Apr 2018, 08:53
Ansett wrote:
19 Apr 2018, 05:26
Could be true. I am increasingly convinced the airport is run for its shareholders, not for its clients (airlines and passengers).
I totally agree. They have built the A380 bridge before making sure that all others basics are ok :!:

Bridges are broken , not enough staff at the connector or transfer platform, not enough police at the border control, airco not working , not enough busses or drivers for bus(de)boardings, IT problems,...

Welcome at Brushasa :roll:
Don’t forget to mention the automatic passport control gates! You already realize from that point what for a country Belgium is...

Unfriendly police officers, annoyed by their « job » (if we can call standing there doing nothing a job...), not helping anybody, acting rude towards passengers who cannot use these gates properly... sad mentality.

With some PAX friendly attitude and PAX oriented infrastructure, and a more destination-development management, BRU could take a big part of the PAX now travelling to/from/ via AMS.
AMS is saturated after a successful strategy of acting as London's 3rd or 4th (or 5th ) airport.
Recently they overtook FRA in PAX numbers.

Now with AMS saturated, good train connections etc , chances are open for BRU to go for more PAX.

But unfortunately, the airport made it a policy to remain old fashioned, customer unfriendly and indeed acts more as a real-estate company.

Time to change the management there as well ??

Jetter
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Jetter » 20 Apr 2018, 16:04

Ansett wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 06:04
But no offence meant, I strongly disagree with you when you say that "at AMS there are shops everywhere but not hindering passengers".

In the main departure hall where departing, arriving and connecting pax often have to cross each other, shops have been allowed to put up stalls outside their shops, hindering the flow of pax at an already overcrowded airport. I'm astonished you have not witnessed the slalom of pax in the main hall.

Actually, at BRU, I would gladly use again the once so much hated tunnel from check-in to Terminal A.
I might have been lucky not to have been at AMS at the peak summer months recently, but I think that if you wanted to walk to your gate and not come within 3 meters of a shop you could. Not many European airports to which that applies. The current problem at AMS is that it's much too busy, not the location of the shops imo.
JOVAN wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 12:06
With some PAX friendly attitude and PAX oriented infrastructure, and a more destination-development management, BRU could take a big part of the PAX now travelling to/from/ via AMS.
AMS is saturated after a successful strategy of acting as London's 3rd or 4th (or 5th ) airport.
Recently they overtook FRA in PAX numbers.

Now with AMS saturated, good train connections etc , chances are open for BRU to go for more PAX.

But unfortunately, the airport made it a policy to remain old fashioned, customer unfriendly and indeed acts more as a real-estate company.
Definitely something to consider, as customer satisfaction at AMS also dropped because of it being overcrowded. It's a (too) small window of opportunity though, as in 2023 the extra terminal will open.

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Passenger
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger » 20 Apr 2018, 16:27

The Flemish government has agreed on a legislation change for taxis. The government will now ask judicial advise, and then ask Parliament to vote.

Uber will have to follow some rules, and a basic knowledge of Dutch will be implemented for all taxi drivers picking up clients in the Flemish Region. Thus also outside Brussels Airport.

At this moment, there isn't much official info available yet, except this press release:

Beslissingen van de Vlaamse regering. Individueel bezoldigd personenvervoer.
Op voorstel van minister Ben Weyts: "...De Vlaamse Regering hecht haar principiële goedkeuring aan het voorontwerp van decreet over het individueel bezoldigd personenvervoer. Het decreet moet zorgen voor de actualisering en modernisering van de taxiregelgeving, met een evenwicht tussen innovatie en flexibiliteit enerzijds en normering anderzijds. Over dit voorontwerp van decreet wordt het advies ingewonnen van de MORA en daarna van de Raad van State..."

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Vic Diesel
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Vic Diesel » 20 Apr 2018, 17:12

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
19 Apr 2018, 14:11
Maybe a way to express one's dissatisfaction would be similar to the common practice in the USA : banners alongside the road "Honk if you want Senator X to leave office".
May I suggest "Fart if you don't like waiting".
:mrgreen:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, working in Brussels)

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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers » 20 Apr 2018, 17:25

@Passenger: thanks, but didn't I understand the new law (or "ruling"?) specifically excludes Brussels Airport, where taxi operations are controlled by (one or other) Brussels authority?

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Conti764
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 » 20 Apr 2018, 17:52

jan_olieslagers wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 17:25
@Passenger: thanks, but didn't I understand the new law (or "ruling"?) specifically excludes Brussels Airport, where taxi operations are controlled by (one or other) Brussels authority?
Brussels has no authority at all. Flemish taxi's can only pick up from BRU and Brussels taxi's from the city. The other way around is forbidden for both.

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sn26567
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by sn26567 » 20 Apr 2018, 18:44

Conti764 wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 17:52
Flemish taxi's can only pick up from BRU and Brussels taxi's from the city. The other way around is forbidden for both.
This makes taxis between Brussels and its airport so expensive: they are empty on half of their itinerary. Is it so difficult for the Brussels and Flemish regions to come to an agreement in order to solve that problem?
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Passenger
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger » 20 Apr 2018, 19:42

I haven't found the text of Flemish government yet - only this press release from minister Weyts:
https://www.benweyts.be/nieuws/iedereen ... sche-taxis

When the government indeed is going to amend the current legislation for all Flemish cities, I don't think that the Raad van State / Conseil D'Etat will accept an exception for Zaventem / Brussels Airport.

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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by sean1982 » 21 Apr 2018, 15:48

Part 6547 of the saga:

Electronic passport gates closed again in arrivals. Current waiting time about 1 hour, for non-european passports: 1 desk for a queue as far as the eye can see :roll:

Only one word for this airport: incompetent.

Jetter
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Jetter » 21 Apr 2018, 16:17

sean1982 wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 15:48
Only one word for this airport: incompetent.
I'd like to add a second word: ignorant.

Ansett
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Ansett » 21 Apr 2018, 17:09

Allow me a third one : suicidal (in the medium and long term). Profits NOW (après moi le déluge) !

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Conti764
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 » 21 Apr 2018, 17:23

sn26567 wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 18:44
Conti764 wrote:
20 Apr 2018, 17:52
Flemish taxi's can only pick up from BRU and Brussels taxi's from the city. The other way around is forbidden for both.
This makes taxis between Brussels and its airport so expensive: they are empty on half of their itinerary. Is it so difficult for the Brussels and Flemish regions to come to an agreement in order to solve that problem?
It is... The same with public transportation. Why still no subway or at least trams to BRU? The old trainstation would be ideal for it...

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Atlantis
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis » 21 Apr 2018, 21:00

There is again and again a lot of BRU bashing the last couple of weeks. And this mostly from people who have completely no idea how modern airports are working nowadays and who have a very, very conservative and negative way of thinking about life.

1) Shops, restaurants, Duty Free is all needed in an airport and it will become even more. The revenue/profit from it is for those ones who invest in it, shareholders, personel of BRU and the pax. The first three ones I'm not going to explain in detail because this is private issue and not your business but the last one, pax, is why this airport can invest in renovation of the whole B-pier, extension of A-pier West, having a very modern luggage handling system, making Brucargo better, attracting new intercontinental carriers, etc etc.
On other European airports, ME or in the States, the shops and very loud commercials are much worser then here at BRU. So I can only assume that this is about people who don't travel much, jealousy and have no liberal way of thinking/business.
The issue of lack of security personel at the security check is a matter of that company itself. Brussels airport give a mandate for several years to handling, catering and security companies. How they fill in the people on the "floor" itself is a matter of that specific company.

2) Public transport: There is an agreement with MIVB to prolong the tramline from NATO to Brussels Airport. MIVB will start the construction works in some time.
Also De Lijn is going to connect the airport with a few Flemish cities around the airport. So this is all in the business plan and will be executed.

3) Real Estate: if you are really from this modern time then you should know that many years ago companies were eager to have their offices or HQ in the city center, to be in the middle. With all the traffic jams and difficulties they see that it is not possible anymore for their staff and clients to reach the office on time and that it is not attractive anymore to be in a city center.
Since a couple of years we can see at many airports around the world that good brands wants to have their office at an airport. Lately we can see the same with train stations. Years ago the environment of train stations were places to avoid bcs it was unsafe, dirty, etc. Now, companies are buying all ground around train stations to have the company close to public transport.
And this is the issue. First, visibility. Brands wants to be visible everywhere and second they want to be attractive and one of the ways is to offer close by public transport.

On a side note. Of course there are issues who can be better. Don't forget that an airport is a city on itself and that thousands of people are working there. It is normal that something can go wrong. Being perfect don't exist. The airport is very well aware of this and works daily on some pain points but never forget that an airport has to deal with a lot of governmental agreements/issues and companies and that it never can act on it's own.

So before you lose your time, energy and showing your conservative way of thinking if a shop should be at least 3 meters away from you so that you have a free way to your gate, think maybe how you can improve your time management. Maybe, and mostly, your arranging your time is not correct.

So, take some time to analyse this and if you still have the feeling to bash, there is always 24/7 the complaint service of BRU, but mostly people don't have the guts to do it and using social media.

I wish you all a very nice, warm and positive evening and enjoy your trip via our very beautiful Brussels Airport.

JOVAN
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN » 21 Apr 2018, 22:18

Atlantis wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 21:00
There is again and again a lot of BRU bashing the last couple of weeks. And this mostly from people who have completely no idea how modern airports are working nowadays and who have a very, very conservative and negative way of thinking about life.

1) Shops, restaurants, Duty Free is all needed in an airport and it will become even more. The revenue/profit from it is for those ones who invest in it, shareholders, personel of BRU and the pax. The first three ones I'm not going to explain in detail because this is private issue and not your business but the last one, pax, is why this airport can invest in renovation of the whole B-pier, extension of A-pier West, having a very modern luggage handling system, making Brucargo better, attracting new intercontinental carriers, etc etc.
On other European airports, ME or in the States, the shops and very loud commercials are much worser then here at BRU. So I can only assume that this is about people who don't travel much, jealousy and have no liberal way of thinking/business.
The issue of lack of security personel at the security check is a matter of that company itself. Brussels airport give a mandate for several years to handling, catering and security companies. How they fill in the people on the "floor" itself is a matter of that specific company.

2) Public transport: There is an agreement with MIVB to prolong the tramline from NATO to Brussels Airport. MIVB will start the construction works in some time.
Also De Lijn is going to connect the airport with a few Flemish cities around the airport. So this is all in the business plan and will be executed.

3) Real Estate: if you are really from this modern time then you should know that many years ago companies were eager to have their offices or HQ in the city center, to be in the middle. With all the traffic jams and difficulties they see that it is not possible anymore for their staff and clients to reach the office on time and that it is not attractive anymore to be in a city center.
Since a couple of years we can see at many airports around the world that good brands wants to have their office at an airport. Lately we can see the same with train stations. Years ago the environment of train stations were places to avoid bcs it was unsafe, dirty, etc. Now, companies are buying all ground around train stations to have the company close to public transport.
And this is the issue. First, visibility. Brands wants to be visible everywhere and second they want to be attractive and one of the ways is to offer close by public transport.

On a side note. Of course there are issues who can be better. Don't forget that an airport is a city on itself and that thousands of people are working there. It is normal that something can go wrong. Being perfect don't exist. The airport is very well aware of this and works daily on some pain points but never forget that an airport has to deal with a lot of governmental agreements/issues and companies and that it never can act on it's own.

So before you lose your time, energy and showing your conservative way of thinking if a shop should be at least 3 meters away from you so that you have a free way to your gate, think maybe how you can improve your time management. Maybe, and mostly, your arranging your time is not correct.

So, take some time to analyse this and if you still have the feeling to bash, there is always 24/7 the complaint service of BRU, but mostly people don't have the guts to do it and using social media.

I wish you all a very nice, warm and positive evening and enjoy your trip via our very beautiful Brussels Airport.
Hello Atlantis,

I am a passenger, and a regular user of BRU and about 25 big airports I use, worldwide, in Europe, Asia and Latin America.
Sorry but BRU plays in a lower league; despite its location, the huge opportunities, relative good connectivity ,etc it remains an un-attractive airport.
Nothing changes for the better, or it goes very, very slowly. And invisible for the users.

Only the Connector and Pier A are international standard.

The rest, all the rest is SUB-standard, and actually a shame for Belgium.
I blame the BRU management for giving such a poor image of our country to PAX arriving here.
Please have a look at all the arrival places: taxis, parkings, buses,...

Sorry to see again and again that BRU has no ambition to become better.

Real estate and shopping are maybe the money makers, but what is wrong about making things more atractive for PAX, more user friendly,

Really it is time to ask the (free of charge) advise of the users; what they think of the airport .
Let a professional company do the job, publish the reesults and act accordingly.

I am not a BRU basher, but a progressive-thinking user.
Apparently you consider people with a different idea from yours as " conservative".
That is your right, but .... well

Good & warm evening to you as well.

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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers » 21 Apr 2018, 22:24

De Lijn is going to connect the airport with a few Flemish cities around the airport. So this is all in the business plan and will be executed.
From other sources I understand the proposed rail link (tram?) Heizel-Vilvoorde-Airport has been mothballed and will not begin implementation anywhere soon. De Lijn does operate buses, though, a good beginning; but more needs to be done.

Boavida
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Boavida » 21 Apr 2018, 23:23

Just for the record: after almost 1 YEAR, the works on the new ceiling + lights in the arrival hall ARE STILL NOT FINISHED. I repeat: for 1 entire year the arrival hall looks like a construction site. If this isn't incompetence in its purest form, I don't know what is.

Who is responsible for this mess? Who are the planners?

Poiu
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Poiu » 22 Apr 2018, 00:38

Atlantis wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 21:00
There is again and again a lot of BRU bashing the last couple of weeks. And this mostly from people who have completely no idea how modern airports are working nowadays and who have a very, very conservative and negative way of thinking about life.

1) Shops, restaurants, Duty Free is all needed in an airport and it will become even more. The revenue/profit from it is for those ones who invest in it, shareholders, personel of BRU and the pax. The first three ones I'm not going to explain in detail because this is private issue and not your business but the last one, pax, is why this airport can invest in renovation of the whole B-pier, extension of A-pier West, having a very modern luggage handling system, making Brucargo better, attracting new intercontinental carriers, etc etc.
On other European airports, ME or in the States, the shops and very loud commercials are much worser then here at BRU. So I can only assume that this is about people who don't travel much, jealousy and have no liberal way of thinking/business.
The issue of lack of security personel at the security check is a matter of that company itself. Brussels airport give a mandate for several years to handling, catering and security companies. How they fill in the people on the "floor" itself is a matter of that specific company.

2) Public transport: There is an agreement with MIVB to prolong the tramline from NATO to Brussels Airport. MIVB will start the construction works in some time.
Also De Lijn is going to connect the airport with a few Flemish cities around the airport. So this is all in the business plan and will be executed.

3) Real Estate: if you are really from this modern time then you should know that many years ago companies were eager to have their offices or HQ in the city center, to be in the middle. With all the traffic jams and difficulties they see that it is not possible anymore for their staff and clients to reach the office on time and that it is not attractive anymore to be in a city center.
Since a couple of years we can see at many airports around the world that good brands wants to have their office at an airport. Lately we can see the same with train stations. Years ago the environment of train stations were places to avoid bcs it was unsafe, dirty, etc. Now, companies are buying all ground around train stations to have the company close to public transport.
And this is the issue. First, visibility. Brands wants to be visible everywhere and second they want to be attractive and one of the ways is to offer close by public transport.

On a side note. Of course there are issues who can be better. Don't forget that an airport is a city on itself and that thousands of people are working there. It is normal that something can go wrong. Being perfect don't exist. The airport is very well aware of this and works daily on some pain points but never forget that an airport has to deal with a lot of governmental agreements/issues and companies and that it never can act on it's own.

So before you lose your time, energy and showing your conservative way of thinking if a shop should be at least 3 meters away from you so that you have a free way to your gate, think maybe how you can improve your time management. Maybe, and mostly, your arranging your time is not correct.

So, take some time to analyse this and if you still have the feeling to bash, there is always 24/7 the complaint service of BRU, but mostly people don't have the guts to do it and using social media.

I wish you all a very nice, warm and positive evening and enjoy your trip via our very beautiful Brussels Airport.

Bashing???
Do you realise the people giving FEEDBACK here are your customers? Most of them are frequent flyers and know what they are talking about! The fact that the feedback is not positive for the airport doesn’t give you the right to insult the messengers!
- the shops: are they really needed? They are always empty, I honestly don’t understand how they can be profitable. Do you have to force people to walk through the shops? I use BRU 50 times a year and have never seen an arriving passenger entering a shop. It has been said here before: they way both arriving and departing passengers are pushed through the connector is a disaster waiting to happen in case of a fire or panic outbreak.
- lack of security: you remain responsible for your sub-contractors, if they do what they want you signed the wrong contract. So again, blame yourself not your customer.
- passport control: I am sure there must be way, can’t BRU pay the state to have more border police at the airport?

The airport is aware they have a de facto monopoly position, the proof is the way you just addressed your customers.
An airport is a public transport facility which should be cost neutral with the only objective to provide an efficient and fluent as possible service.

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lumumba
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by lumumba » 22 Apr 2018, 01:52

Another big problem is that there is nothing for the visitors bringing or picking up the passengers.
Before you could go upstairs at least drink something the food was bad like in a school cafeteria but at least have a view on the traffic it was already poor compare to other airports but today there is nothing just some fast foods and one with a poor view.
Also when you arrive true this custom area can they not make it bigger and more friendly when you arrive on a crowded morning you have to do the queue that's crazy in no other airport in the WORLD it happens.
There are 3 doors use them no they just use one!
I was in Geneva last week and there it's fantastic you can really enjoy your time beautiful view nice dinner and services.

No for me Brussels Airport looks more like a prison today!

On the bright side for passengers arriving or going to a Schengen flight it's very very easy.
I often get my train after 15 minutes after landing,landing not disembarkation !
In fact after landing I'm in less than in one hour home with the train and metro so this is really good even very good and comfortable.
Another strong point is sushi bar in front of the tarmac nice food beautiful view but that for the travelers.
I also tried the Italian one but it's average.

Atlantis I think you better use what is said here it's like written before it's mostly frequent flyers with experience giving a opinion.
The feeling we got here is that Brussels Airport is very busy with making profit but is doing nothing to improve and it's urgent....

Is there no survey somewhere to compare what passengers think?
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Ansett
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Re: BRU infrastructure: future

Post by Ansett » 22 Apr 2018, 05:41

Atlantis wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 21:00

So before you lose your time, energy and showing your conservative way of thinking if a shop should be at least 3 meters away from you so that you have a free way to your gate, think maybe how you can improve your time management. Maybe, and mostly, your arranging your time is not correct.

So, take some time to analyse this and if you still have the feeling to bash, there is always 24/7 the complaint service of BRU, but mostly people don't have the guts to do it and using social media.
If you decide to waste your time and energy on this forum, please do it in a polite way, without insulting other members.

To keep it short : decisions which will bring in money quickly or fairly quickly, are also made and implemented quickly or fairly quickly.

If the number of pax at BRU was decreasing, BRU management would invest in passenger comfort. But since the number of pax keeps on increasing, why would improving the "passengers' experience" be a priority. At the moment, it is BRU management's last concern.

Bottom line, as far as I am concerned.

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