Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 » 25 Aug 2019, 12:51

Atlantis wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 12:45
Conti764 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 10:10
Atlantis wrote:
19 Jun 2019, 21:44
The next point, comes always back, is the direct connection of the E40 from Leuven to BRU.
Working on the airport, I very much welcome the idea. But is there already any idea on how it would run? Because between the airport and the E40 there is some pretty densely populated area.

About A-pier West, how certain is the delay mentioned earlier in this thread? Especially in the morning the airport is pretty much saturated. I've even seen a lot of SN-tails pretty far away on remote stands. A-pier West could relieve the pressure by moving SN Africa ops to free up space at the current T-gates which could be used as regular A-gates troughout the day.

And it becomes pretty clear the current terminal can hardly cope with the morning rush. It sometimes becomes overcrowded. T2 should really be in the plans to improve the passenger experience at BRU, even if it would be empty in the afternoon.
According to the current plans, no place for T2. Everything will be in the New Terminal. The current one and the Leisure terminal. As of course you can't close the current ones and building a new one, everything will be in phases, but the concept will be completely new and according to the new standards, developments, safety, etc. As for now, there will be again a much closer drop off zone to the terminal with much bigger space than before the attacs, so good news I would say.

One the place where the big DHL building was, even further and longer than this, a new area will be constructed. This will be the new intermodal hub for transport, a new hangar for Ground services equipment, new hotel (lets say replacing of the current one) and extra parking for passengers and staff.

At the same time also the road access to the airport will be expanded, redeveloped with new security checkpoints.

This all in the course of 2 years
Thanks for the info. But I think not building a T2 is a major mistake. BRU is overcrowded in the morning and imho on the edge of just being unsafe. At some point escpecially the space between rows 2 and 3 (SN) was so crowded emergency services would have had a hard time getting there in the case of an emergency...

Or BRU has to make transfer activities a priority and scale back on the O&D...

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis » 25 Aug 2019, 13:01

Conti764 wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 12:51
Atlantis wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 12:45
Conti764 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 10:10


Working on the airport, I very much welcome the idea. But is there already any idea on how it would run? Because between the airport and the E40 there is some pretty densely populated area.

About A-pier West, how certain is the delay mentioned earlier in this thread? Especially in the morning the airport is pretty much saturated. I've even seen a lot of SN-tails pretty far away on remote stands. A-pier West could relieve the pressure by moving SN Africa ops to free up space at the current T-gates which could be used as regular A-gates troughout the day.

And it becomes pretty clear the current terminal can hardly cope with the morning rush. It sometimes becomes overcrowded. T2 should really be in the plans to improve the passenger experience at BRU, even if it would be empty in the afternoon.
According to the current plans, no place for T2. Everything will be in the New Terminal. The current one and the Leisure terminal. As of course you can't close the current ones and building a new one, everything will be in phases, but the concept will be completely new and according to the new standards, developments, safety, etc. As for now, there will be again a much closer drop off zone to the terminal with much bigger space than before the attacs, so good news I would say.

One the place where the big DHL building was, even further and longer than this, a new area will be constructed. This will be the new intermodal hub for transport, a new hangar for Ground services equipment, new hotel (lets say replacing of the current one) and extra parking for passengers and staff.

At the same time also the road access to the airport will be expanded, redeveloped with new security checkpoints.

This all in the course of 2 years
Thanks for the info. But I think not building a T2 is a major mistake. BRU is overcrowded in the morning and imho on the edge of just being unsafe. At some point escpecially the space between rows 2 and 3 (SN) was so crowded emergency services would have had a hard time getting there in the case of an emergency...

Or BRU has to make transfer activities a priority and scale back on the O&D...
The terminal will look completely different Conti764. Like almost everything will be new, also a whole new check in hall concept.
There will be of course also security standards and sefety requirements.

But how the terminal looks now, you will not see it anymore in a few years.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 » 25 Aug 2019, 13:02

Atlantis wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 13:01
Conti764 wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 12:51
Atlantis wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 12:45


According to the current plans, no place for T2. Everything will be in the New Terminal. The current one and the Leisure terminal. As of course you can't close the current ones and building a new one, everything will be in phases, but the concept will be completely new and according to the new standards, developments, safety, etc. As for now, there will be again a much closer drop off zone to the terminal with much bigger space than before the attacs, so good news I would say.

One the place where the big DHL building was, even further and longer than this, a new area will be constructed. This will be the new intermodal hub for transport, a new hangar for Ground services equipment, new hotel (lets say replacing of the current one) and extra parking for passengers and staff.

At the same time also the road access to the airport will be expanded, redeveloped with new security checkpoints.

This all in the course of 2 years
Thanks for the info. But I think not building a T2 is a major mistake. BRU is overcrowded in the morning and imho on the edge of just being unsafe. At some point escpecially the space between rows 2 and 3 (SN) was so crowded emergency services would have had a hard time getting there in the case of an emergency...

Or BRU has to make transfer activities a priority and scale back on the O&D...
The terminal will look completely different Conti764. Like almost everything will be new, also a whole new check in hall concept.
There will be of course also security standards and sefety requirements.

But how the terminal looks now, you will not see it anymore in a few years.
Okay. I'm curious to see it... :)

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis » 25 Aug 2019, 13:07

Conti764 wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 13:02
Atlantis wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 13:01
Conti764 wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 12:51


Thanks for the info. But I think not building a T2 is a major mistake. BRU is overcrowded in the morning and imho on the edge of just being unsafe. At some point escpecially the space between rows 2 and 3 (SN) was so crowded emergency services would have had a hard time getting there in the case of an emergency...

Or BRU has to make transfer activities a priority and scale back on the O&D...
The terminal will look completely different Conti764. Like almost everything will be new, also a whole new check in hall concept.
There will be of course also security standards and sefety requirements.

But how the terminal looks now, you will not see it anymore in a few years.
Okay. I'm curious to see it... :)
You will ;)

JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN » 25 Aug 2019, 20:45

Atlantis wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 12:45
Conti764 wrote:
20 Jun 2019, 10:10
Atlantis wrote:
19 Jun 2019, 21:44
The next point, comes always back, is the direct connection of the E40 from Leuven to BRU.
Working on the airport, I very much welcome the idea. But is there already any idea on how it would run? Because between the airport and the E40 there is some pretty densely populated area.

About A-pier West, how certain is the delay mentioned earlier in this thread? Especially in the morning the airport is pretty much saturated. I've even seen a lot of SN-tails pretty far away on remote stands. A-pier West could relieve the pressure by moving SN Africa ops to free up space at the current T-gates which could be used as regular A-gates troughout the day.

And it becomes pretty clear the current terminal can hardly cope with the morning rush. It sometimes becomes overcrowded. T2 should really be in the plans to improve the passenger experience at BRU, even if it would be empty in the afternoon.
According to the current plans, no place for T2. Everything will be in the New Terminal. The current one and the Leisure terminal. As of course you can't close the current ones and building a new one, everything will be in phases, but the concept will be completely new and according to the new standards, developments, safety, etc. As for now, there will be again a much closer drop off zone to the terminal with much bigger space than before the attacs, so good news I would say.

One the place where the big DHL building was, even further and longer than this, a new area will be constructed. This will be the new intermodal hub for transport, a new hangar for Ground services equipment, new hotel (lets say replacing of the current one) and extra parking for passengers and staff.

At the same time also the road access to the airport will be expanded, redeveloped with new security checkpoints.

This all in the course of 2 years
Changes, growth and Improvements at BRU is sooo sloooww.
The airport is dull, boring.
That would be no problem if at least there were good, fast, convenient and efficient PAX flows.
But check in is slow, passport control in/out is slow, baggage delivery is slow...
Only security check is really good.

Boring non-efficient Country, Boring non-efficient Airport

Thta is probably what foreign visitors, airlines are thinking.

I do not believe things will change in the next two years.

Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Ansett » 25 Aug 2019, 21:18

To some extent, I agree with you. When BAC/BRU/A.F. announce changes, it usually takes years to concretize (if it does).
Perhaps, I have been lucky, but I cannot really complain about baggage delivery. It's usually OK. Certainly, when you have to walk back from one of the last gates...
Passport control is a problem in many airports. It happened to me to have to wait for more than an hour at AMS, CDG, GRU, MEX, JFK, which does not mean that nothing should be done to improve the flow of pax.
I agree with you that security checks at BRU are among the most efficient and friendly which I have witnessed (again, BRU is not alone to offer fairly fast&friendly security checks, but many other airports lag behing).
Check in for SN (and probably some other airlines) tends to be slow and inefficient, but that's not BRU's fault.

The things that really upset me is the "temporary" drop off zone which will probably become permanent, it's probably there to stay. And in second place, the taxi waiting area at the arrivals level, which should definitively be upgraded.

But, I, too, like you, do not believe in positive changes in the near future. Let's hope I am wrong.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 » 25 Aug 2019, 22:11

Ansett wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 21:18
To some extent, I agree with you. When BAC/BRU/A.F. announce changes, it usually takes years to concretize (if it does).
Perhaps, I have been lucky, but I cannot really complain about baggage delivery. It's usually OK. Certainly, when you have to walk back from one of the last gates...
Passport control is a problem in many airports. It happened to me to have to wait for more than an hour at AMS, CDG, GRU, MEX, JFK, which does not mean that nothing should be done to improve the flow of pax.
I agree with you that security checks at BRU are among the most efficient and friendly which I have witnessed (again, BRU is not alone to offer fairly fast&friendly security checks, but many other airports lag behing).
Check in for SN (and probably some other airlines) tends to be slow and inefficient, but that's not BRU's fault.

The things that really upset me is the "temporary" drop off zone which will probably become permanent, it's probably there to stay. And in second place, the taxi waiting area at the arrivals level, which should definitively be upgraded.

But, I, too, like you, do not believe in positive changes in the near future. Let's hope I am wrong.
Atlantis already anounced that a new drop off much closer to the terminal will be build.

The taxi waiting area cannot be improved properly. If it was up to me the entire former departures curb would have been demolished except for some level passages at the doors to the terminal. This way there would be daylight at arrivals as well.

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Atlantis
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis » 25 Aug 2019, 22:25

I understand the concerns and the not believing.

But let me give you already some facts. The fire brigade is/was also part of renewing it in full. This was also planned in Phase 1 which end in 2021. And look, BRU has two completely and very efficient fire stations.

A second example. The extention of the car park with 2100 extra places. This is also already under construction. Also part of Phase 1.

The extra new cargo buildings at Brucargo. See my new topic. Also in Phase 1

As from next month the bus tram will drive from The Heizel to BRU

Many things are done, working and executed.

You cannot say that the airport is dull or slow. No, the airport is very much on speed and at least this management has the guts to come out with a vision and wants to double the number of pax. Which one before did it??? I can tell you, no one

The temporary drop off zone is indeed temporary bcs like I wrote earlier, the new drop off zone will be much closer to the terminal.

That whole area of the current drop off zone has a completely other destination in the plans.

You really have to understand that not everything can be done by the airport itself. The government, local governments and many companies like De Lijn, STIB, NMBS are also involved and they also need approval and having the budget for it.
Regarding the new access road with new security. This goes with the federal government, internal affairs, homeland security, etc etc

Really, try to understand how damn difficult it is to run an international airport where the majority of the services are external. If they fail, like air traffic control, it has an impact on the airport.

So, try to appreciate what is done already and the many many things we still will do to give a great experience.

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Boavida » 26 Aug 2019, 00:16

Atlantis wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 22:25
The temporary drop off zone is indeed temporary bcs like I wrote earlier, the new drop off zone will be much closer to the terminal.
Where will it be then? At the (old) location, where it was before the attacks?

I'm curious about the renovation of the current terminal, but I'm disappointed they don't choose for a completely new terminal. A new terminal design could give the airport a much needed new, modern 'face'. Now the old infrastructure will be "renovated" (as we always do in this country)... I'm sure it will look much better, but it will lack a wow-effect that only a new terminal can have. From the outside, nothing will change and BRU will still have this (sorry to say) boring look. :?

No T2 also means that the current WAY TOO SMALL arrival hall will stay. In fact the entire arrivals area (reclaim area + public space) is way too cramped. (And it only gets worse when you get out and you find yourselves under an ugly viaduct/flyover....)

When you arrive from the modern and airy Connector to the reclaim area it's like stepping 30 years back in time: it's dark, low ceilings, yellow lights, ugly red floor,.... Lost bags are stored around the offices of Swissport and Aviapartner because they obviously don't have enough space. Sometimes the smell is awful there! It all gives a very negative and outdated first impression. For me, this is the biggest weak point of BRU.

I understand it's not easy and much is being done, but I still think it's not enough when you compare to other airports. No T2 is a serious missed opportunity.

Anyhow, I'm still curious how the renovated terminal will look like. When can we expect some renders/images to show us? :)

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Ansett » 26 Aug 2019, 19:25

OK, things are happening at BRU. OK, not everything is done by the BRU/BAC itself. My concerns and criticisms focus on what BRU/BAC can do alone. What is being done, or better : what is not being done, to me, clearly shows the lack of consideration of BRU/BAC/A.F. for the airport's main customers and in particular for its passengers. How long will the awful drop off zone be temporary ? Why did it take so long to come up with a system to prevent drivers from using the drop off zone as a parking lot ? The problem existed for YEARS at the former drop off zone without anything being done about.

And the current taxi waiting area could really be upgraded at minimal cost without moving walls or construction structures, just to make it somewhat less uncomfortable and less boring. No passenger bothers about the current area if (s)he only has to wait a few minutes, but when the wait becomes too longgggggg, it's unacceptable. Fortunately, the taxi stewards are doing a very good job.

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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by sn26567 » 29 Aug 2019, 11:41

Whatever some people say about Brussels Airport in this forum, it looks like it is very appreciated internationally:
André
ex Sabena #26567

Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Ansett » 30 Aug 2019, 11:43

A fair ranking. I never said (or wanted to stay) that BRU is a terrible airport. I think that if one re-reads my posts, one will realize that I have basically two main criticisms towards BRU :
1. The closing of the former drop off zone (which imho is not necessary at all), the new temporary drop off zone (how long is it going to be temporary ? No comment.)
2. The taxi waiting area which should be upgraded.

But as the French saying goes : qui aime bien, châtie bien !

I was upset when we, pax, were forced to walk through the "duty free?" shops to go from security to the gates, but it is now a common feature at practically all airports.

The problems with the ground handlers should finally be solved when the new licences are granted (patience, patience…).

Remember that I praised the efficiency and friendliness of security employees. If the queue is long, it is not their fault.

And I am glad that in this survey we don't see LHR in the Top 10 and AMS, MUC and FRA are at the bottom of the Top 10. Never understood how they could rank better than BRU.

Btw, although I seldom eat at the airport, the catering offering seems indeed very good and much better than in most other airports.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by sn26567 » 30 Aug 2019, 17:16

André
ex Sabena #26567

Ansett
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Ansett » 02 Sep 2019, 11:19

With all due respect……………. LOL !!! This is worse than amateur window dressing from BRU.

Passenger
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger » 05 Sep 2019, 11:20

Tax free shops: takeover (request) Duty Free S.A. by Lagardère:

NL:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi/ar ... %0D%0A#top

FR:
http://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/cgi/ar ... 014334#top

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Boavida » 05 Sep 2019, 13:22

Ansett wrote:
02 Sep 2019, 11:19
With all due respect……………. LOL !!! This is worse than amateur window dressing from BRU.
I hope BAC realises the urgency of getting a new departures area ASAP. Apart from the vague, dreamy "2040" plans I haven't seen a single real, tangible plan. The current drop off, taxi and bus area are absolutely scandalous for an international airport. And all these people have to enter the airport through 1(!) single little door... My local supermarket has a bigger entrance.

About the renovation of the current terminal: I hope it will be more than some 'window dressing'. They should build a new facade + roof structure comparable to this:

Image

Image

Not to mention the interior that needs a complete overhaul aswel.

I'm looking forward to the plans, and I hope they're ambitious (because they need to be).

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 » 05 Sep 2019, 14:36

Boavida wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 13:22
Ansett wrote:
02 Sep 2019, 11:19
With all due respect……………. LOL !!! This is worse than amateur window dressing from BRU.
I hope BAC realises the urgency of getting a new departures area ASAP. Apart from the vague, dreamy "2040" plans I haven't seen a single real, tangible plan. The current drop off, taxi and bus area are absolutely scandalous for an international airport. And all these people have to enter the airport through 1(!) single little door... My local supermarket has a bigger entrance.

About the renovation of the current terminal: I hope it will be more than some 'window dressing'. They should build a new facade + roof structure comparable to this:

Image

Image

Not to mention the interior that needs a complete overhaul aswel.

I'm looking forward to the plans, and I hope they're ambitious (because they need to be).
Not anymore.

JOVAN
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN » 05 Sep 2019, 20:43

Boavida wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 13:22
Ansett wrote:
02 Sep 2019, 11:19
With all due respect……………. LOL !!! This is worse than amateur window dressing from BRU.
I hope BAC realises the urgency of getting a new departures area ASAP. Apart from the vague, dreamy "2040" plans I haven't seen a single real, tangible plan. The current drop off, taxi and bus area are absolutely scandalous for an international airport. And all these people have to enter the airport through 1(!) single little door... My local supermarket has a bigger entrance.

About the renovation of the current terminal: I hope it will be more than some 'window dressing'. They should build a new facade + roof structure comparable to this:

Image

Image

Not to mention the interior that needs a complete overhaul aswel.

I'm looking forward to the plans, and I hope they're ambitious (because they need to be).
Indeed, the Façade of BRU looks disgusting.
It is unique in its ugliness.

With a reasonable budget and some creativity, the Façade can be transformed in something of today.

We have good designers and companies in Belgium who can renovate buildings very nicely..
why can we not get over this mediocrity.

BRU is rich, makes huge benefits, has everything to be a Top 15 Airport in Europe, but mediocrity is the standard.

Boavida
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Boavida » 06 Sep 2019, 00:13

Conti764 wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 14:36

Not anymore.
?

Please explain? Has the entrance to the airport on bus level changed? (last time I checked it was 1 little door...)

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Conti764 » 06 Sep 2019, 08:48

Boavida wrote:
06 Sep 2019, 00:13
Conti764 wrote:
05 Sep 2019, 14:36

Not anymore.
?

Please explain? Has the entrance to the airport on bus level changed? (last time I checked it was 1 little door...)
Sorry, I misunderstood... No, indeed at the bus level nothing changed. I thougth you spoke in general. At departures and arrivals all is normalnagain xith all doors accesible...

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