Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Join this forum to discuss the latest news that happened in the world of commercial aviation.

Moderator: Latest news team

Post Reply
Passenger
Posts: 6778
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger »

Thursday morning: luggage belt total blackout for several hours at... Eindhoven Airport.

Stij
Posts: 2237
Joined: 07 Mar 2005, 00:00
Location: Belgium

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Stij »

Passenger wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 14:52
Thursday morning: luggage belt total blackout for several hours at... Eindhoven Airport.
Your point being? Things going wrong 1 time at other airports isn't an excuse nor a defense for things going chronically wrong at BRU.

Stij

Passenger
Posts: 6778
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger »

Stij wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 15:29
Passenger wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 14:52
Thursday morning: luggage belt total blackout for several hours at... Eindhoven Airport.
Your point being? Things going wrong 1 time at other airports isn't an excuse nor a defense for things going chronically wrong at BRU.
I'm not making a point. I'm just reporting that technical problems is no exclusivity for Brussels Airport.

Eindhoven, today:
https://www.ed.nl/eindhoven/problemen-m ... ~ac4e90f9/

Dusseldorf, 17th July 2019:
https://www.thelocal.de/20190717/chaos- ... -breakdown

Amsterdam, 29th June 2019 (the third major incident for passengers there, in one year):
https://www.at5.nl/artikelen/195193/paa ... na-storing

Stij
Posts: 2237
Joined: 07 Mar 2005, 00:00
Location: Belgium

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Stij »

Passenger wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 15:42
I'm just reporting that technical problems is no exclusivity for Brussels Airport.
Of course things go wrong in other airports, but the problem remains... the frequency at Brussels is exceptionally high and unacceptable (and Brussels Airport knows this as well, therefore they've offered very welcome and appreciated compensations.)

But, if it makes you happy, please continue! ;-)

Stij

Passenger
Posts: 6778
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger »

Chronical problems can happen at Amsterdam Airport too: their fuel supply system was down again this evening (for appr. 1 hour).

Flightradar tweets: "...Per an update from Eurocontrol, the fueling system at Amsterdam (EHAM/AMS) is out of service and there are currently no gates available. Arrival rate has been reduced to 10/hr, but could be further reduced. Expect diversions and lengthy delays..."

User avatar
Atlantis
Posts: 4446
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis »

There was indeed again a huge fueling problem this evening at Schiphol. It was not possible to fuel any plane.

Also this time was a software problem the issue. The second fuel problem in three weeks time.

This can happen everywhere as everything goes automated. Brussels Airport is the only airport who apologised towards the pax by giving twice a sorry voucher.

JOVAN
Posts: 484
Joined: 08 Jun 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN »

Atlantis wrote:
09 Aug 2019, 22:03
There was indeed again a huge fueling problem this evening at Schiphol. It was not possible to fuel any plane.

Also this time was a software problem the issue. The second fuel problem in three weeks time.

This can happen everywhere as everything goes automated. Brussels Airport is the only airport who apologised towards the pax by giving twice a sorry voucher.
Automation is indeed the direct way to trouble...

The "Sorry"voucher is a good beginning. Recognize the problem first, say sorry, and start solving it.

Passenger
Posts: 6778
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger »

Handling agents at Brussels Airport: can the airport create a turnaround?

During the last years, there have a number of strikes and disruptions at the two handling agents Swissport (16M pax) and Aviapartner (9,5M pax). And every time, the complaints are about the same: not enough staff, too much workload, not enough equipment, too old equipment. To end the strike, board and/or management allways promise the same: we will engage more staff, we will introduce new bonuses, we will buy new equipment. However, the financial results from both Swissport BRU and Aviapartner BRU are dramatic: the annual accounts from both show ongoing losses, in millions. Activities at BRU are indeed supported by their groups’ better performances in OST, CRL, LGG or by abroad activities. So they don't have much budget for investments at BRU, and I assume the banks are not willing to provide loans easily.

Arno Colla, a student (Master) Business Engineering at University Antwerp, has done research about these problems for his thesis “Analyse van de passagiersafhandeling op de Belgische luchthavens” (Analysis of passenger handling at Belgian airports). Summary: see link down below to an article in Trends.

Arno Colla: “…there should be more collaboration between handling agents, the airport, the airlines and the trade unions... The airport could invest in equipment, and then rent it to the handling agents via a pool system, and at decent prices. They have done this already for shuttle buses and de-icing equipment... Or perhaps Swissport and Aviapartner could buy some equipment together?...”

Another possibility to reduce costs, Colla says, is grouping the gates per handling company.

Today, the handling fees are too low, Arno Colla finally states.

Maybe the airport should intervene indeed? After all, it is their clients (airlines and passengers) who suffer whenever there is a strike. And it is the airport who is blamed when passengers have to wait very long for their luggage.

- - -

Source:
https://trends.knack.be/economie/bedrij ... 85443.html
and
https://be.linkedin.com/in/arno-colla-bb2791174

User avatar
luchtzak
Posts: 11456
Joined: 18 Sep 2002, 00:00
Location: Hofstade, Zemst - Belgium
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by luchtzak »

And in Tel Aviv:
.

TLspotting
Posts: 2353
Joined: 19 Mar 2017, 10:22
Location: Uccle/Ukkel,BE
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by TLspotting »

TUI fly announced to have opened its renewed and now larger TUI desk at Hall 2.
Hi. I'm T., spotter and aviation geek. Join me on Facebook & Twitter @TLspotting

User avatar
Atlantis
Posts: 4446
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Atlantis »

Tui indeed opened since last Friday 9th August their huge Tui desk in the Leisure Terminal.

This one, 84 square meter, is much bigger than the previous one, around 54 Square meter before the attacks.

This to facilitate also customers in case that something is happening with flights.

This is an important step to use the Leisure Terminal again as where is was build for and it will make also the main terminal less crowded

Passenger
Posts: 6778
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger »

Passenger wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 15:42

Eindhoven, luggage belt out of service, today (8th August):
https://www.ed.nl/eindhoven/problemen-m ... ~ac4e90f9/
EIN +1: luggage belt was out of service for a few hours this morning (13th August).
https://www.ed.nl/eindhoven/storing-bag ... ~ae61372f/

User avatar
luchtzak
Posts: 11456
Joined: 18 Sep 2002, 00:00
Location: Hofstade, Zemst - Belgium
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by luchtzak »

Passenger wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 13:59
Passenger wrote:
08 Aug 2019, 15:42

Eindhoven, luggage belt out of service, today (8th August):
https://www.ed.nl/eindhoven/problemen-m ... ~ac4e90f9/
EIN +1: luggage belt was out of service for a few hours this morning (13th August).
https://www.ed.nl/eindhoven/storing-bag ... ~ae61372f/
English: https://www.aviation24.be/airports/eind ... o-operate/

Homo Aeroportus
Posts: 1231
Joined: 24 Feb 2007, 18:28
Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Maybe time to start a new topic on BHS, Fuel and other disruptions around the world ...

:mrgreen:

H.A.

Passenger
Posts: 6778
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 14:58
Maybe time to start a new topic on BHS, Fuel and other disruptions around the world ...
I hope that everyone now accepts that shit happens at every airport in the world, and not in Brussels only.

jan_olieslagers
Posts: 3085
Joined: 24 Jun 2006, 08:34
Location: Vl.Brabant
Contact:

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by jan_olieslagers »

Yes of course. As I read comments here, it is the frequency of problems with the Zaventem luggage handling system that some find unbearable. Might talk of quick-shits - if such base vocabulary may be excused for this once ;)

Stij
Posts: 2237
Joined: 07 Mar 2005, 00:00
Location: Belgium

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Stij »

Passenger wrote:
13 Aug 2019, 21:37
I hope that everyone now accepts that shit happens at every airport in the world, and not in Brussels only.
You gotta be kidding me...

That wasn't just accepted a zillion posts ago, nobody ever wrote nothing could go wrong!!! However, what some don't accept as normal is that a system went down 4 times in a short period and that you and some others consider this perfectly normal and acceptable.

But I believe most airports are on different page as you...

Brussels Airport themselves didn't consider it normal, otherwise they wouldn't have offered compensations.

Schiphol didn't consider a fuel system going down twice as normal, and it wasn't even not their fault, but the supplier AFS. So their CEO apologized on national television and asked himself how they could improve communication to reduce the impact. https://nos.nl/nieuwsuur/artikel/229735 ... nemen.html.

Applied to Brussels Airport's case, that would be Descheemaecker or Feist apologizing on national television for the problems with the baggage handlers, Skeyes, the airport police.... and how they all together should improve communication to the passengers to limit frustration.

Cheers,

Stij

Passenger
Posts: 6778
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger »

Stij wrote:
14 Aug 2019, 08:54
Schiphol didn't consider a fuel system going down twice as normal, and it wasn't even not their fault, but the supplier AFS. So their CEO apologized on national television and asked himself how they could improve communication to reduce the impact.

Applied to Brussels Airport's case, that would be Descheemaecker or Feist apologizing on national television for the problems with the baggage handlers, Skeyes, the airport police.... and how they all together should improve communication to the passengers to limit frustration.
Seriously? "The AMS CEO apologized"?? Have you listened to the interview? Apart from saying “we feel embarrassed”, he did not apologized to the stranded travellers and/or to the affected airlines. Just a little search on “Benschop” on Twitter says what the Dutch tv viewers think about his performance on tv: it was a shame, rubbish, nonsense, ridiculous.

Some of those tweets are anonymous, but most aren't. Like the tweets from Jan Leune, a retired chief political editor:
De eerste crisis duurde 9 uur. Pas na weken laat #Benschop zich daarover uit zonder iets te zeggen over zijn afwezigheid. Uit niets blijkt een sturende rol tijdens of na de crises.

Luisterde met stijgende verbazing naar Schipholtopman Benschop die zalvend en met meel in de mond feitelijk niets zei over falend management van zijn bedrijf tijdens jongste crises. Waar was hij en wat deed hij concreet beide keren? Van geen waarde op kritiek momenten. Nonvaleur
.
https://twitter.com/search?q=benschop&src=typd

Passenger
Posts: 6778
Joined: 06 Dec 2010, 20:54

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by Passenger »

Passenger wrote:
10 Aug 2019, 13:44
Handling agents at Brussels Airport: can the airport create a turnaround?

During the last years, there have a number of strikes and disruptions at the two handling agents Swissport (16M pax) and Aviapartner (9,5M pax). And every time, the complaints are about the same: not enough staff, too much workload, not enough equipment, too old equipment. To end the strike, board and/or management allways promise the same: we will engage more staff, we will introduce new bonuses, we will buy new equipment. However, the financial results from both Swissport BRU and Aviapartner BRU are dramatic: the annual accounts from both show ongoing losses, in millions. Activities at BRU are indeed supported by their groups’ better performances in OST, CRL, LGG or by abroad activities. So they don't have much budget for investments at BRU, and I assume the banks are not willing to provide loans easily.

Arno Colla, a student (Master) Business Engineering at University Antwerp, has done research about these problems for his thesis “Analyse van de passagiersafhandeling op de Belgische luchthavens” (Analysis of passenger handling at Belgian airports). Summary: see link down below to an article in Trends. Arno Colla: “…there should be more collaboration between handling agents, the airport, the airlines and the trade unions... The airport could invest in equipment, and then rent it to the handling agents via a pool system, and at decent prices. They have done this already for shuttle buses and de-icing equipment... Or perhaps Swissport and Aviapartner could buy some equipment together?...”
Another possibility to reduce costs, Colla says, is grouping the gates per handling company. Today, the handling fees are too low, Arno Colla finally states.

Maybe the airport should intervene indeed? After all, it is their clients (airlines and passengers) who suffer whenever there is a strike. And it is the airport who is blamed when passengers have to wait very long for their luggage.

Source:
https://trends.knack.be/economie/bedrij ... 85443.html
and
https://be.linkedin.com/in/arno-colla-bb2791174
Bad figures for BookYear 2018 too, for both handlers:
https://www.hln.be/geld/economie/passag ... ~a9f53860/

JOVAN
Posts: 484
Joined: 08 Jun 2006, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airport (BRU) infrastructure: future

Post by JOVAN »

Passenger wrote:
14 Aug 2019, 10:06
Stij wrote:
14 Aug 2019, 08:54
Schiphol didn't consider a fuel system going down twice as normal, and it wasn't even not their fault, but the supplier AFS. So their CEO apologized on national television and asked himself how they could improve communication to reduce the impact.

Applied to Brussels Airport's case, that would be Descheemaecker or Feist apologizing on national television for the problems with the baggage handlers, Skeyes, the airport police.... and how they all together should improve communication to the passengers to limit frustration.
Seriously? "The AMS CEO apologized"?? Have you listened to the interview? Apart from saying “we feel embarrassed”, he did not apologized to the stranded travellers and/or to the affected airlines. Just a little search on “Benschop” on Twitter says what the Dutch tv viewers think about his performance on tv: it was a shame, rubbish, nonsense, ridiculous.

Some of those tweets are anonymous, but most aren't. Like the tweets from Jan Leune, a retired chief political editor:
De eerste crisis duurde 9 uur. Pas na weken laat #Benschop zich daarover uit zonder iets te zeggen over zijn afwezigheid. Uit niets blijkt een sturende rol tijdens of na de crises.

Luisterde met stijgende verbazing naar Schipholtopman Benschop die zalvend en met meel in de mond feitelijk niets zei over falend management van zijn bedrijf tijdens jongste crises. Waar was hij en wat deed hij concreet beide keren? Van geen waarde op kritiek momenten. Nonvaleur
.
https://twitter.com/search?q=benschop&src=typd
I do not know if Scheemaecker of Feist have been on national TV to apologize for or explain about the the long blacklist of problems at BRU.
The Schiphol CEO did.
He got inviewed by one of the best journalists of the NOS.
Interview was in direct "Dutch" style. Yes, he was a bit evasive.
He also said some interesting things: it is not just a technical issue, with immense consequences .
It is also a 'cultural' problem. Why there was no plan B, why where essential spare parts not available, has the maintebance be done regularly, ???
Is the organization not too complacent ??

Shit happens and will always happen.
Organizations only want to grow, but there is a limit to everything. And if the limit is "the sky", you can be sure that the limit will never be reached and the organization will suffer. Operational quality or operational excellence is a BUZZ word. When organizations start this kind of quality programms, the Management and the levels below quickly think; that's it, we are good.
AMS has reached its limits and so has BRU. (only, AMS is 3 times bigger..).
AMS however will solve the problem because the Dutch do not apply Ostrich policy , as we do here too often.
why is the Belgian railway system, the highway system, the Brussels Tunnels system,BRU, ... so much behind ?? Why do incidents and accidents happen a lot more in B than in NL ??

Lack of competent leadership is a main reason. Self-satisfaction, too high salaries, bonus-culture..
When the ' Top' is like that, all lower levels act in a similar way .

No competition of the Schiphol distributor of kerosine AFS (same in BRU), oligopoly-position of AMS, BRU,.. leads to complacency.

The incidents that happen now are avoidable. (belts, kerosine,..). Even the strikes are avoidable.
But they will continue to happen as the issues are not dealt with properly.
Shareholders only care about quick gains. No long term.

people can accept that things go wrong, for a hour or so.
But again, even in the case of AMS, the biggest frustration is the lack of information.
crises-management is apparently not in the management books anymore.
There are no plans to care about the customer, the PAX.
Even not enough bottles of water, on a hot summer day !!!

Shame, shame..

Like Mr. Winter, former director of AFS (AMS Kerosine distributor) for 24 years said in the interview :
If you have a network of pipes of 30km, you should have some by-passes, so you can isolate the problem to one part of the airport. And the fact that it took so many hours (also with the Belt at BRU), and it happened again and again...
Pure scandal.

If there is an interview with Scheemaker or Feist about the BRU problems, I will be happy to know where to find it.

Post Reply