SN's long haul fleet

diminbru · Post by **diminbru** » 03 Feb 2011, 18:17

I have a question concerning SN's long haul fleet. As I'm not a specialist, I'm sure some of you guys will know better than me.

Why don't they take A330-200's so they can start direct flights and still be able to fill the flights?
As I remember well, Sabena used to fly A330-200's...
Is this A/C convenient for SN cargo-wise?

Thanks for your answers...

Conti764 · Post by **Conti764** » 03 Feb 2011, 18:19

diminbru wrote:I have a question concerning SN's long haul fleet. As I'm not a specialist, I'm sure some of you guys will know better than me.

Why don't they take A330-200's so they can start direct flights and still be able to fill the flights?
As I remember well, Sabena used to fly A330-200's...
Is this A/C convenient for SN cargo-wise?

Thanks for your answers...

A330-200's are far less available then A330-300's on the second hand market, and buying factory fresh frames (or even leasing them) is not quite possible for SN in its current state.

I do see LH ordering (or shifting) some A332's when they fully own SN.

airtrotter · Post by **airtrotter** » 03 Feb 2011, 19:03

I do see LH ordering (or shifting) some A332's when they fully own SN.

maybe some of the remaining Swiss A332, where 2 are owned and the others leased. Will they become available when the other A333 arrive at Swiss?

cnc · Post by **cnc** » 03 Feb 2011, 20:12

i'm still hoping for some 744's from LH

euroflyer · Post by **euroflyer** » 04 Feb 2011, 08:49

Conti764 wrote:I do see LH ordering (or shifting) some A332's when they fully own SN.

As far as I am aware LH has no 332's anymore in its own fleet? The 4 they once had are flying with TAP and Swiss now, but maybe I am wrong here.

tolipanebas · Post by **tolipanebas** » 04 Feb 2011, 09:19

All A332s have long gone at LH and LX has only 2 left, which will be gone by mid 2011 too...

Both carriers have replaced the A332s by brandnew A333s, btw.

Post by **sn26567** » 04 Feb 2011, 09:39

The A330 is a hot plane these days. Due to the delays in the B787, airlines have been ordering more A330s. Airbus has announced yesterday that it was pushing up the production rate of the A330 from 8 to 10 per month.

pjms21 · Post by **pjms21** » 04 Feb 2011, 10:14

They will have to do their best because last month, Jan. 2011 they only delivered
5 A330's ( 4 x A330-300 and 1 x A330-200)

http://www.airbus.com/company/market/orders-deliveries/

HighInTheSky · Post by **HighInTheSky** » 04 Feb 2011, 10:55

Strange that nobody mentioned the outphasing (starting this month) of several A330-200's and A340's at Emirates...

Now there you have something to think about guys

diminbru · Post by **diminbru** » 04 Feb 2011, 12:18

HighInTheSky wrote:Strange that nobody mentioned the outphasing (starting this month) of several A330-200's and A340's at Emirates...

Now there you have something to think about guys

yeah I have been looking at that too. But do Emirates A330-200's have the right engine type for SN?
Two of the A/C already went to Virgin Blue

diminbru · Post by **diminbru** » 04 Feb 2011, 12:21

pjms21 wrote:They will have to do their best because last month, Jan. 2011 they only delivered
5 A330's ( 4 x A330-300 and 1 x A330-200)

http://www.airbus.com/company/market/orders-deliveries/

uhm because Airbus means 10 A330's by 2013 and not at this moment !

diminbru · Post by **diminbru** » 04 Feb 2011, 12:29

I see in the A330 production list 3 new A330-300's for Cathay Pacific, which will be delivered shortly (B-LAK; B-LAL and B-LAM).
If these A/C will replace their older A330-300's (B-HLJ; B-HLK and B-HLA) and if these A/C will not be used anymore, it means that SN A330-300's will be the oldest flying around

FlyA330 · Post by **FlyA330** » 05 Feb 2011, 09:18

BruAir prefers the -300 above the -200 because it's a longer aircraft (more volume space for cargo).
Cargo is very important for the African network.

Boavida · Post by **Boavida** » 07 Feb 2011, 11:32

cnc wrote:i'm still hoping for some 744's from LH

²!

Boavida · Post by **Boavida** » 08 Feb 2011, 14:40

747's from LH to SN. Is this wishful thinking or a real possibility?

regi · Post by **regi** » 08 Feb 2011, 15:22

Boavida wrote:747's from LH to SN. Is this wishful thinking or a real possibility?

For which destination ?

DeltaWiskey · Post by **DeltaWiskey** » 08 Feb 2011, 15:29

What do you mean by 'a real possibility'? Of course it is (technically) possible, but economically viable? If the management goes absolutely nuts, we might see it...

In other words, wishful thinking.

Conti764 · Post by **Conti764** » 08 Feb 2011, 15:40

DeltaWiskey wrote:What do you mean by 'a real possibility'? Of course it is (technically) possible, but economically viable? If the management goes absolutely nuts, we might see it...

In other words, wishful thinking.

In theory, it could be economically viable, the 744M. The same amount of seats of an A333, but with lots more cargo and cargo is where SN makes its money on.

On the other hand, we don't know of course if SN generates enough cargo to Africa to fill a 74M. And on top of that, these 74M's of LH are near or even over 20 years old, how reliable are they for the challenging African destinations?

SN's A333's aren't that much younger, but they are twins and thus still burn (far?) less fuel then early build 744's.

And to round it up, one or even two 74M's don't warrant hiring 744-rated flight crew, even more since these planes would leave again in less then 10 years (if they even make it that long!) so these crews need to come from LH and I don't know if LH would like to set up such operation with SN, even if they wholy own the company. Cabin crew would be of less issue since I can imagine it is easier for cabin crew to switch from A to B and back then it would be for fllight crew.

So 744's at SN? Possible, but not likely if you ask me.

BrightCedars · Post by **BrightCedars** » 08 Feb 2011, 17:16

I think the B747-400M idea is dead, it was circulated some time ago and it could make sense but really all the arguments are against it, age of the planes, safety restrictions, fuel burn, etc.

I guess SN will have a spanking fleet of fresh A330's or A350's or B787's depending where the LH group goes shopping. I think the group might buy both B787 and A350 but I think SN's fleet size doesn't justify it to run both side by side. I believe the B787 is more suited to the SN operation where frequency still needs to be built up.

regi · Post by **regi** » 08 Feb 2011, 18:01

Or LH keeps them for some years as a guarrantee if something goes wrong with the B747-8.
Qantas was happy with their old B-747's the last months...

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