No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

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luchtzak
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No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by luchtzak » 20 Dec 2010, 13:18

Just saw Brussels Airport spokesmen Jan Van der Cruysse on TV, apparently there is no more deicing fluid left at the airport. Next delivery is expected wednesday.

Note before any negative comments on this subject: this has happened at Berlin TXL too a few weeks ago!

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by teddybAIR » 20 Dec 2010, 13:29

Ooh, it happened at TXL too...that's ok than :shock:

dsa330

Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by dsa330 » 20 Dec 2010, 14:16

teddybAIR wrote:Ooh, it happened at TXL too...that's ok than :shock:
why don't you deliver some then?

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tolipanebas
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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by tolipanebas » 20 Dec 2010, 14:19

Indeed, officially published by NOTAMS!

1012212300 EST
NOTE THAT DEPARTURES CAN NOT BE GUARANTEED DUE TO LACK OF AIRCRAFT DEICING FLUIDS.
FOR INFO, CONTACT YOUR HANDLING COMPANY OR AIRPORT OPERATOR.

so that means BRU will likely shut down completely this evening then, with all planes grounded, as more snow is forcasted this evening, unless somebody pulls de-icing fluid from somewhere: what about the Belgian Air Fore for instance? it's not like there's a war about to start tonight is there? Nor that our military is able to hold off an invation anyway....

Another demonstration that it's really the weakest link that brakes the chain, no matter how much you've invested in tools to clean RWYs and TWYs this summer....
Last edited by tolipanebas on 20 Dec 2010, 15:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by teddybAIR » 20 Dec 2010, 14:29

dsa330 wrote:
teddybAIR wrote:Ooh, it happened at TXL too...that's ok than :shock:
why don't you deliver some then?
Because I'm not the business partner who is paid to deliver this service...what a remark! What we see these days is the simple consequence of a common business practise called Just in Time. The simple truth is that it takes periods like this to turn Just in Time to Just out of Time.

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tolipanebas
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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by tolipanebas » 20 Dec 2010, 14:30

Update:

SN is about to cancel most of its flights as a consequence of flightcare running out of de-icing fluid until tomorrow Wednesday AT LEAST! Only a minimal service is going to be maintained this evening and tonight, but no details are available yet.

Here's the official pax communication:

Flight cancellations expected in Brussels today 20 December

Due to the winter weather conditions preventing the de-icing fluid provider of Brussels Airport to deliver additional fluid, Brussels Airlines is forced to cancel a number of flights in the course of today, 20 December.

For latest information on your flight, check the section "Flight Status" (click here) or via your mobile device on http://m.brusselsairlines.com or contact our Customer Contact Centre: tel:+32 2 723 23 62

As a result of the current weather conditions and the impact on flights in Western Europe, our website (and particularly the "Flight status" section) is being exposed to unusual amounts of traffic. When looking up your flight status, you might have to submit your information multiple times before the results are shown.

We recommend to check the status of your flight before travelling to the airport.


Since is not sure if tomorrow there will be fluid delivered to BRU, this may become the second long term grounding in 2010.... Oh boy...

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by teddybAIR » 20 Dec 2010, 14:46

One would expect that the high density of airports and air traffic in our regions would result in local sourcing of the de-icing fluid. Yet, I read on nieuwsblad.be (not most reliable source, I know) that the stock has been depleted and liveries are not expected before wednesday owing to the truck-ban on French roads...

Hence my question: who is the supplier of this de-icing fluids and where does it have to come from? I know it is a chemically complex product, but are there no alternative suppliers in Belgium who produce locally, therefore shortening supply lines? And since we are at it: how much de-icing fluid is actually stored at EBBR in winter conditions?

Best regards,
bAIR

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by TCAS_climb » 20 Dec 2010, 14:55

Last week MUC was already running low on de-icing fluid. The 'best' part being that MUC collects and recycles the fluid that falls off the aircraft in the de-icing areas, so in theory they should be less exposed to such problem... But no!

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tolipanebas
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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by tolipanebas » 20 Dec 2010, 14:58

I don't have a clue where the fluid is coming from, but I doubt it is delivered readily usable to the airport.
If it would, there would have to be a constant convoy of trucks heading up and down to that factory, given it can take up to half a truck to de-ice a single narrow body, and about 1 to 2 trucks to de-ice a single widebody.

I rather think flightcare are provided with a concentrated fluid which is then thinned out by them, so it's a pitty indeed that they have run out of stock so soon.

Let's hope they learn lessons from this and stock up far more, as it is rather logical to me that when you need to de-ice a lot of planes at the airport over a considerable long period of time, road conditions outside the airport aren't going to be brilliant either, hence your supply will be very difficult.

In the military, they'd call this a hug strategic blunder: not safeguarding a long and vital supply line during a battle is what ultimately caused the Nazi's a defeat in operation Barbarosa, or what ended Napoleon's war against Russia.... Both ran to ground in very harsh winter conditions too, ironically.

it's a blunder that is widely made in today's economy however, as the just-in-time principle rules.
Last edited by tolipanebas on 20 Dec 2010, 14:59, edited 1 time in total.

DeltaWiskey
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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by DeltaWiskey » 20 Dec 2010, 14:58

tolipanebas wrote:what about the Belgian Air Fore for instance? it's not like there's a war about to start tonight is there?
You never know, but highly unlikely...

What with de-iceing at ANR, LGG, CRL? Can't they miss some 'till wednesday? (of course without disrupting their operations), it can help another few thousand stranded passengers at BRU...

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by BrightCedars » 20 Dec 2010, 15:04

luchtzak wrote: Note before any negative comments on this subject: this has happened at Berlin TXL too a few weeks ago!
It is the more ironic as this sounds like an early warning to check your own stock if you haven't been keeping a constant check on it already.

If it's not a liquid then maybe it can be airlifted to BRU? Wasn't the same guy happily telling the TV channels and newspapers this morning that the airport is operating near normal.

It's not normal to run out of de-icing fuild, it's just like the bakker would tell us he ran out of flour. We live in a modern society where people are paid for this kind of scenario not to happen.

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by teddybAIR » 20 Dec 2010, 15:08

Seems like a lot of the inbound flights for the coming hours have already been cancelled. Must be a bummer if you're a passenger on a flight with destination EBBR, but your flight is cancelled because of a lack of de-icing fluid which is only pertinent to the outbound flight...ie, not yours!

Acid-drop
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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by Acid-drop » 20 Dec 2010, 15:12

seriously ... belgium is the 3rd world ...

Now it's a good oportunity for the surounding airports to show what they are capable of ... if the companies even fly there

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by Mavke » 20 Dec 2010, 15:15

The fluid , named Glycol is brought to brussels from Gent ,

its brought to brussels in 100% and mixed up in brussels with water , aviapartner is equipped with trucks that can mix the glycol with water according the weather situation ( 25/75, 50/50, 75/25, 100 ) all this is done in max 2 minutes , without heating it up til 95 degrees ( 80 when leaving the truck )
other handlers have to mix it near the tanks and goes as fast as any other truck ....

ken

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by teddybAIR » 20 Dec 2010, 15:21

Then something earlier in the production chain must be going wrong at the side of the suppliers of the factory in Gent, since they talk about the effects of truck-bans in France...either that, or the papers are full of cr*p again :/

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by Mavke » 20 Dec 2010, 15:26

Yeah indeed Crap !

Imagen what it must be for couriers companies .... no aircraft, problems with trucks in wallonie ... ( lets hope they save some fluid for the next nights !! )

But indeed, for the people who are stuck anywhere , in there cars trucks aircraft and airport !
lets hope these problems get solved fast !

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by regi » 20 Dec 2010, 15:43

Just a price matter. If you would like to have 200 T of glycol tomorrow afternoon delivered, you make 2 phonecalls: one to the supplier and another to your financial director that he has to approve the immediate money transfer towards the supplier.
It is such a common product that it is widely available.
Interesting remark about the Munich recycling activity. Such operation would require huge investment in the form of collecting, filtering, storing etc. A huge investment for a situation that is very rare at Brussels.
By the way, because of airport problems in other European countries, it has little use to keep Brussels open.
Good for the hotels.

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by teddybAIR » 20 Dec 2010, 15:47

regi wrote:Just a price matter. If you would like to have 200 T of glycol tomorrow afternoon delivered, you make 2 phonecalls...
Well, either the price is very very steep, or it is a little more complex than that. At list prices of easily $50m per plane, I'm quite convinced that price elasticity is out the door. Imagine the total capital that is simply standing workless on the apron...what a waste!

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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by airazurxtror » 20 Dec 2010, 16:07

The airport of Brussels (capital city of Europe) to close monday evening until wednesday morning, for lack of deicing fluid.
ANR, CRL, LGG : business as usual.
CRL and LGG ready to help BRU by taking a few flights - not all of them.

http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/belgique ... 809883.php

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tolipanebas
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Re: No more deicing fluid at Brussels Airport

Post by tolipanebas » 20 Dec 2010, 16:38

Just a thought of mine, but this night and morning quite a few widebodies on diversion from LHR to BRU were de-iced prior to their ferry flight out, all while knowing the quantities of fluid were already fairly limited and most probably not sufficient to cope with the WX outlook for the next few days....

Maybe it's just me, but I think all BRU-based airlines should be really outrageous for seeing wasted precious liquids on those occasional visitors up to this morning even, while being faced with a potential shut down for almost 2 days at worse now...

I can imagine this to going to be another item taken into consideration by SN (and LH) when contemplating launching a self-handling project for BRU, widely rumoured for some time now, as having full control over the stock and its use would definitely have been a good thing in trying to limit the impact any lack of liquid would have on their network operations, something which Flightcare clearly didn't care about when they decided to de-ice everybody asking for it, as if there was no tomorrow!

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