Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

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oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by oldblueeyes »

True.

There is no right or wrong, but just acceptable compromises.

But let's see how things look like top-down:

The Group wants to reduce the number of aircraft by approx 100 and maintain the number of flown paxkm. It means generally upgauging. For sure this will be adjusted to post-crisis demand, but this is the trend.

Cut of the low end - the Q400 fleets are retired - Eurowings not coming back (was anyhow scheduled for end of 2021) and Austrian retiring the last turboprops end of next year. Citylines' CRJ will become the smallest size.

Simplyfing the fleets - we can see this best at Austrian - E195 and A320 on shorthaul, with the A319 being phased out. But, we speak there still about a company carrying twice as many pax as Brussels.

Internal availabilities - as the group would force in the coming years cash compression, unlikely that external aircraft will be leased, further more available fleet will be flown till the end of their meaningfull commercial lifetime. Having that said, the easiest option is to replace outgoing leasings with an appropriate mix of Lufthansa owned A319 and A320, depending on demand and network.
A E195 and A320 fleet similary to Austrian would mean a A319 fleet for Dolomiti - they were looking after this before the crisis, but not anymore the case yet. CRJ900 and Airbus might be to high from cost per seat prospective, given the LCC competition in the market and thus pressure on lower cost per seat, balancing everything more towards the A320.

Looking towwards the Lf before Corona, the 319 would have been the better choice. Maybe in the future as well, at least as transition model.

Of course the A223 might be ideal with cost per seat similar to the A320NEO and better size for the local market, but realistically there is no capital available for such an investment now.

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by crew1990 »

Just to know, what is the maximal range of the A321XLR with a full load, to know what are the possibilities the this type of aircraft? Airbus states 8700km meaning this aircraft can reach cities like Mexico, Bogota, Caracas, Bangkok, etc from Brussels.

lucas
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lucas »

crew1990 wrote: 25 Jul 2020, 13:56 Just to know, what is the maximal range of the A321XLR with a full load, to know what are the possibilities the this type of aircraft? Airbus states 8700km meaning this aircraft can reach cities like Mexico, Bogota, Caracas, Bangkok, etc from Brussels.
At full capacity, the XLR will be able to fly 7400 km (4000nm). From BRU, that would mean that Nort and West India, Central Afrika (including Kenia, not further south) and New York and Washington in the USA and all major Canadian cities (except for Vancouver) would be in reach. Meaning they would be able to fly it to all the destination they currently fly to.
I've measured these distances very quickly with Google Earth, so there might be a little margin in the distances, this is just to have an overall idea

Magiktrix
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Magiktrix »

In Airbus commercial its 8700km. But nobody cares. You cannot decide on a city pair based on that. This number is for a perfect aircraft on a perfect day with airbus test pilot. The real world is more complicated.

Bracebrace
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Bracebrace »

You need a payload-range diagram to discuss these things:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DuAe1yLVAAE ... name=large

PttU
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by PttU »

So, you don't need an XLR, LR would be enough? That's the one on that diagram with the 97t MTOW.
The LR is already available, maybe even at interesting (leasing) prices due to lower aviation demand, while the XLR is not produced yet, and might have a relatively higher price tag, especially the first few years.

oldblueeyes
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by oldblueeyes »

The only problem here is the fact that all fleet orders are done centrally by the group, and Lufthansa is streamlining fleet decisions in a way that aircraft types should fit to all member brands. This is why there was no interest into the LR version but the group was very open to support the XLR development.

A larger XLR subfleet might make sense if some of the African destinations can't reach critical mass with 333 ( and therefore these might have to be moved somewhere else in the group), but just two A321LR for SN won't make sense. As a group one can not serve each tiny local need - thus for example also the decisions to retire all Q400 fleets - which also opens windws for smaller niche players.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lumumba »

That's what I proposed for years already that SN use the A321LR to Luanda for example but a lot of people where mocking me then.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Conti764
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Conti764 »

lumumba wrote: 26 Jul 2020, 14:04 That's what I proposed for years already that SN use the A321LR to Luanda for example but a lot of people where mocking me then.
I don't know what the discussion was about exactly, nor why you were being mocked, but before stating 'SN should fly the A321(X)LR to this or that destination' one needs to know if:

(a) the mentioned market is big enough for SN to warrant a (direct) flight.

(b) how important cargo is on said market. If cargo is too important to be left behind in BRU, they're better of offering (for example) Luanda in the current triangular flight.

It might however open up opportunities to do more direct flying on the A321(X)LR. On certain days on a A330 (cargo heavy) in combination with another destination and on other days with the A321 (light cargo).

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Conti764 wrote: 26 Jul 2020, 14:25 ....
(b) how important cargo is on said market. If cargo is too important to be left behind in BRU, they're better of offering (for example) Luanda in the current triangular flight.
....
Fully agreed.

The longer range versions of the A321 carry one or several ACT, Additional Centre Tanks.
These take a lot of hold volume.
Standard A321 CEO/NEO :

Pages from Airbus-Commercial-Aircraft-AC-A321 Rev 202004.jpg

versus :

Pages from Airbus-Commercial-Aircraft-AC-A321 Rev 202004 A321 ACT.jpg
So if SN wants to cover the mission cost by transporting cargo forget about these extended versions.
Of course, if there is another way within the Group to transport profitable cargo to that destination ....

H.A.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lumumba »

Conti764 wrote: 26 Jul 2020, 14:25
lumumba wrote: 26 Jul 2020, 14:04 That's what I proposed for years already that SN use the A321LR to Luanda for example but a lot of people where mocking me then.
I don't know what the discussion was about exactly, nor why you were being mocked, but before stating 'SN should fly the A321(X)LR to this or that destination' one needs to know if:

(a) the mentioned market is big enough for SN to warrant a (direct) flight.

(b) how important cargo is on said market. If cargo is too important to be left behind in BRU, they're better of offering (for example) Luanda in the current triangular flight.

It might however open up opportunities to do more direct flying on the A321(X)LR. On certain days on a A330 (cargo heavy) in combination with another destination and on other days with the A321 (light cargo).
Luanda is in my opinion an high yield destination not sure about cargo but knowing the plane only stays about 1 hour on the ground there can't be a lot of loading or unloading.

Could be used also where the agreement's are very liberal about number of flights.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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ChemtrailSwitch
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by ChemtrailSwitch »

OO-SSC, Star Alliance Livery, will be ferried to Twente Airport in the beginning of next week to be scrapped.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by sn26567 »

ChemtrailSwitch wrote: 25 Aug 2020, 19:43 OO-SSC, Star Alliance Livery, will be ferried to Twente Airport in the beginning of next week to be scrapped.
Hence, no Brussels Airlines aircraft will sport the Star Alliance livery. Isn't that against the rules of the alliance?

And welcome to aviation24.be, ChemtrailSwitch!
André
ex Sabena #26567

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