Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

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C96C
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Joined: 03 Apr 2017, 11:51

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by C96C »

BrightCedars wrote:
20 Aug 2019, 10:39
According to airfleets.net SN has 16 A330's in fleet: 4 x -200 and 12 x -300's. We know that 1 x -200 (SFY) is now gone from that list. That leaves 15 A330's if the list is close to being up to date.

Isn't that much more than SN is actually flying around? How many are in maintenance or flying elsewhere?
I assume SFW is the next one to leave? And then are they releasing the remaining 3 x -200's?

Eventually the fleet will be composed of 11 x A330-300, 4 of which with lesser performance (RR 772 vs 772B engines?). Are there more to come from either CX or SQ?
You can find an unofficial overview here:
https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/brussels

Homo Aeroportus
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Location: 2300NM due South of North Pole

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 16:38
Dear OO-SFY we already miss you.
A lot.

OO-SFZ was planned to run SN515 to IAD today, STD 1015LT
According to Flightstats.com, at 0757 this morning, Zulu was replaced by Bravo with ETD 1200.
Actual time of departure 1241, two and a half hour late.

So I guess OO-SFZ must be at Hangar41. She's planned to fly tomorrow.


H.A.

Well OO-SFZ didn't fly yesterday 20AUG.
She was planned to run the IAD service but according to Flightstats.com, at 06:41 yesterday morning, the departure time of 10:15 was pushed back to ... 16:00 :(

Soon after she was replaced by OO-SFX.
Nevertheless the ETD was pushed to 1630, 1640, 1650, 1700.
Actual departure was at 17:42, a 7h27 delay.

They turned around the flight fairly quickly at IAD but "due to the late arrival of the aircraft ..." SN516 is of course still in flight at this time.
ETA BRU is 11:40. Not sure all these passengers that SN brings over from the US to connect to their African flights will make their connections today.

Though those flying to Accra may still make it as obviously OO-SFX, due to fly SN277 at 10:40, will see her departure postponed till 13:20.
Yeah, arriving at 11:40 and turning her around in less than 2 hours ... :roll:

The above example is probably a worst case but disruptions happen too often.
Hats off to those at SN Ops and Mx to (try to) keep the boat afloat in these conditions.

As to the upper management, I would suggest action !
Now !

Or the so called "Centre of Excellence AFI" will see its market share being eating by AF-KLM, TP, IB, TK, ET and end up as a sad case at business schools.

H.A.

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BrightCedars
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Location: Brussels, Belgium

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by BrightCedars »

C96C wrote:
20 Aug 2019, 12:17
You can find an unofficial overview here:
https://sites.google.com/site/lhgroupfleet/brussels
Thx!

Poiu
Posts: 842
Joined: 14 Nov 2015, 09:38

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Poiu »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 10:47
As to the upper management, I would suggest action !
Now !
Or the so called "Centre of Excellence AFI" will see its market share being eating by AF-KLM, TP, IB, TK, ET and end up as a sad case at business schools.
The only possible action would be a spare aircraft but unfortunately that would make the long haul operations unviable. With increasing competition the triangular flights will become unprofitable sooner or later, I, honestly don’t see a bright future for SN in the upcoming recession...
Before you start about the EW wet lease, SN is making a, albeit small, profit on this operation so pulling out of that agreement is not a viable option either.

nordikcam
Posts: 1067
Joined: 24 Aug 2008, 10:22
Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by nordikcam »

It has been two years since I left the long haul of SN for the same reasons as today. We can thus conclude that this does not interest anyone in high place at SN since the situation is and remains unchanged at the direction of SN. We marveled at the new German CEO. Yes, well ... can do better I think! And I'm flying Air France! Practical, efficient, regular and a clear desire to help when it is necessary! What sadness, I only wait for one thing, that SN leave this alliance which does not suit him!

Boavida
Posts: 496
Joined: 14 Sep 2010, 23:54

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Boavida »

I hope they come with an ambitious business plan in september. Enough time has been lost for SN over the last years with the ludicrous Eurowings failure!

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lumumba
Posts: 1797
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Location: brussels Europe

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lumumba »

Homo Aeroportus wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 10:47
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
19 Aug 2019, 16:38
Dear OO-SFY we already miss you.
A lot.

OO-SFZ was planned to run SN515 to IAD today, STD 1015LT
According to Flightstats.com, at 0757 this morning, Zulu was replaced by Bravo with ETD 1200.
Actual time of departure 1241, two and a half hour late.

So I guess OO-SFZ must be at Hangar41. She's planned to fly tomorrow.


H.A.

Well OO-SFZ didn't fly yesterday 20AUG.
She was planned to run the IAD service but according to Flightstats.com, at 06:41 yesterday morning, the departure time of 10:15 was pushed back to ... 16:00 :(

Soon after she was replaced by OO-SFX.
Nevertheless the ETD was pushed to 1630, 1640, 1650, 1700.
Actual departure was at 17:42, a 7h27 delay.

They turned around the flight fairly quickly at IAD but "due to the late arrival of the aircraft ..." SN516 is of course still in flight at this time.
ETA BRU is 11:40. Not sure all these passengers that SN brings over from the US to connect to their African flights will make their connections today.

Though those flying to Accra may still make it as obviously OO-SFX, due to fly SN277 at 10:40, will see her departure postponed till 13:20.
Yeah, arriving at 11:40 and turning her around in less than 2 hours ... :roll:

The above example is probably a worst case but disruptions happen too often.
Hats off to those at SN Ops and Mx to (try to) keep the boat afloat in these conditions.

As to the upper management, I would suggest action !
Now !

Or the so called "Centre of Excellence AFI" will see its market share being eating by AF-KLM, TP, IB, TK, ET and end up as a sad case at business schools.

H.A.
It's going for years like that....nothing new but I think it's better than before.
About 6 years ago I had 3 cancellation and one flight with a old Tristar all in 12 months!!!
But still not good enough I had 0 cancellations with AF or LH to Africa in the last 10 years.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

Poiu wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 13:08
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 10:47
As to the upper management, I would suggest action !
Now !
Or the so called "Centre of Excellence AFI" will see its market share being eating by AF-KLM, TP, IB, TK, ET and end up as a sad case at business schools.
The only possible action would be a spare aircraft but unfortunately that would make the long haul operations unviable. With increasing competition the triangular flights will become unprofitable sooner or later, I, honestly don’t see a bright future for SN in the upcoming recession...
Before you start about the EW wet lease, SN is making a, albeit small, profit on this operation so pulling out of that agreement is not a viable option either.
Well what makes the long haul operations not viable is when your passengers turn to other airlines because you don't provide a reliable service.

OO-SFZ has been grounded since 18AUG. Mx must have been working hard at fixing the problem(s), hoping day after day for a next-day return to service, only to be cancelled each time.
Now she is promised to fly to ACC tomorrow 24AUG.
But the SN515 that, according to FR24, Zulu was supposed to run on Sunday, as been cancelled one hour ago according to Flightstats.com

What's next ?

H.A.

nordikcam
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Location: Uccle

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by nordikcam »

Do not look for noon to 2 pm! I do not know if this is said in English! It's a real disaster and I think LH is waiting for this since it has not reacted for TWO years! But what are they waiting for? The key under the doormat and the competition welcome to BRU ... finally it could unfortunately be a lesser evil, considering what happens every day!

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Conti764
Posts: 1775
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Conti764 »

Poiu wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 13:08
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 10:47
As to the upper management, I would suggest action !
Now !
Or the so called "Centre of Excellence AFI" will see its market share being eating by AF-KLM, TP, IB, TK, ET and end up as a sad case at business schools.
The only possible action would be a spare aircraft but unfortunately that would make the long haul operations unviable. With increasing competition the triangular flights will become unprofitable sooner or later, I, honestly don’t see a bright future for SN in the upcoming recession...
Before you start about the EW wet lease, SN is making a, albeit small, profit on this operation so pulling out of that agreement is not a viable option either.
Maybe they should just accept a temporary penalty on short term profits to improve them on the longer term? Having your flight insanely postponed for several hours chases clients off to other airlines.

But then again, LH's insane expectations do not leave much room for it. I know you always point out that LH kept SN afloat for years and that's right. But that was all they did. In the ten years since it acquired SN, LH did nothing to (help) improve its financial performance. They only gave them money to stay afloat and when they finally fully acquired SN, they lost two years with their ridiculous SN/EW idea...

Such a shame...

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Atlantis
Posts: 4466
Joined: 12 Apr 2005, 00:00

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Atlantis »

Conti764 wrote:
25 Aug 2019, 13:01
Poiu wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 13:08
Homo Aeroportus wrote:
21 Aug 2019, 10:47
As to the upper management, I would suggest action !
Now !
Or the so called "Centre of Excellence AFI" will see its market share being eating by AF-KLM, TP, IB, TK, ET and end up as a sad case at business schools.
The only possible action would be a spare aircraft but unfortunately that would make the long haul operations unviable. With increasing competition the triangular flights will become unprofitable sooner or later, I, honestly don’t see a bright future for SN in the upcoming recession...
Before you start about the EW wet lease, SN is making a, albeit small, profit on this operation so pulling out of that agreement is not a viable option either.
Maybe they should just accept a temporary penalty on short term profits to improve them on the longer term? Having your flight insanely postponed for several hours chases clients off to other airlines.

But then again, LH's insane expectations do not leave much room for it. I know you always point out that LH kept SN afloat for years and that's right. But that was all they did. In the ten years since it acquired SN, LH did nothing to (help) improve its financial performance. They only gave them money to stay afloat and when they finally fully acquired SN, they lost two years with their ridiculous SN/EW idea...

Such a shame...
I agree, lots of time was lost

Homo Aeroportus
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Homo Aeroportus »

OO-SFP on her way to .... EBBR?

20190826 OO-SFP.png

H.A.

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by nordikcam »

BRU ? No...Bergen op Zoom...why there ?

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by sn26567 »

nordikcam wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 16:21
BRU ? No...Bergen op Zoom...why there ?
Why was it in Châteauroux in the first place? (flight FRA-CHR on 15 Aug.)

My educated guess: this ex-LH A330-300 went to CHR to be adapted to EW standards and continues to WOE for painting in EW livery. It will be one of the four A330s operated at DUS by SN for EW, together with SFJ, SFK and SFL. When SFP will start operating for EW, the last A340 will retire (or return to LH).

OO-SFB, currently in EW livery, should remain with SN (and get a new livery again?).
André
ex Sabena #26567

nordikcam
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by nordikcam »

sn26567 wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 16:36
nordikcam wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 16:21
BRU ? No...Bergen op Zoom...why there ?
Why was it in Châteauroux in the first place? (flight FRA-CHR on 15 Aug.)

My educated guess: this ex-LH A330-300 went to CHR to be adapted to EW standards and continues to WOE for painting in EW livery. It will be one of the four A330s operated at DUS by SN for EW, together with SFJ, SFK and SFL.

OO-SFB, currently in EW livery, should remain with SN (and get a new livery again?).
;) Thx ! No one more for SN who needs it ;)

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RoMax
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by RoMax »

Ansett wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 18:35
According to CS you have to make a profit first before you are entitled to new investments. Remember ?
So far for the level playing field and for those who still believe what the guy says.
Just a few remarks:
- These A333's are (profitably) operated by SN under ACMI and contribute to a future more efficient A330 fleet management also for SN itself (yes this period of phasing in and out and cabin retrofits it's bad, any margin is gone in a split second...but once all 'new' A333's are in the fleet with new cabin, the fleet will be much more robust than the past years, and yes those 4 A333's in DUS contribute to that)
- The latest A333's for EW are not expansion, but replacements for the terribly inefficient A340's
- It's not because it was communicated that EW would stop long haul itself, that everything is dropped from one moment to the other. SN will continue to operate in DUS and SunExpress continues to operate in FRA and MUC (those are 100% under commercial control (sales, network and schedule planning, revenue management, etc) of LH itself and even the product is adapted to be more in line, like adding C class to the A332's and complimentary catering for all pax, all ground ops are LH, etc). It's just a question what they'll do with the EW brand on long haul and who takes the commercial control in DUS, like LH in FRA/MUC.
- The ex-LH A333's going to DUS are older than the 7 that SN is getting in BRU (+SFX which is of the same generation)
- These A333's keep the LH interior and except some changes in configuration and 'trim and finishes' the full cabin is hardly getting any investment
- Meanwhile SN is investing 10mio EUR in each 'new' A333 to fully renew the interior (seats, bulkheads, galleys, lighting, toilets,... everything is new or fully refurbished). It's the first time ever that SN does this.
- The combined investment of acquiring those 2nd hand 7 A333's (all are purchased by the group) + the cabin investment, is the biggest ever for SN and would have never been possible without LH.

It might be hard for some to accept that SN is not living the Swiss dream and it's a fact that a huge amount of time and money has been lost on the EW integration (even though some of the work that has been done to create a new company behind the scenes is not fully lost or useless now either), but the calimero behavior of many is a pity. It's not with such behavior that you achieve things and actually change anything to the situation.

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lumumba
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by lumumba »

RoMax wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 21:19
Ansett wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 18:35
According to CS you have to make a profit first before you are entitled to new investments. Remember ?
So far for the level playing field and for those who still believe what the guy says.
Just a few remarks:
- These A333's are (profitably) operated by SN under ACMI and contribute to a future more efficient A330 fleet management also for SN itself (yes this period of phasing in and out and cabin retrofits it's bad, any margin is gone in a split second...but once all 'new' A333's are in the fleet with new cabin, the fleet will be much more robust than the past years, and yes those 4 A333's in DUS contribute to that)
- The latest A333's for EW are not expansion, but replacements for the terribly inefficient A340's
- It's not because it was communicated that EW would stop long haul itself, that everything is dropped from one moment to the other. SN will continue to operate in DUS and SunExpress continues to operate in FRA and MUC (those are 100% under commercial control (sales, network and schedule planning, revenue management, etc) of LH itself and even the product is adapted to be more in line, like adding C class to the A332's and complimentary catering for all pax, all ground ops are LH, etc). It's just a question what they'll do with the EW brand on long haul and who takes the commercial control in DUS, like LH in FRA/MUC.
- The ex-LH A333's going to DUS are older than the 7 that SN is getting in BRU (+SFX which is of the same generation)
- These A333's keep the LH interior and except some changes in configuration and 'trim and finishes' the full cabin is hardly getting any investment
- Meanwhile SN is investing 10mio EUR in each 'new' A333 to fully renew the interior (seats, bulkheads, galleys, lighting, toilets,... everything is new or fully refurbished). It's the first time ever that SN does this.
- The combined investment of acquiring those 2nd hand 7 A333's (all are purchased by the group) + the cabin investment, is the biggest ever for SN and would have never been possible without LH.

It might be hard for some to accept that SN is not living the Swiss dream and it's a fact that a huge amount of time and money has been lost on the EW integration (even though some of the work that has been done to create a new company behind the scenes is not fully lost or useless now either), but the calimero behavior of many is a pity. It's not with such behavior that you achieve things and actually change anything to the situation.
I love your intervention, he is well informed and well documented but you can't deny the problem with the long haul fleet for years now !!!
Last edited by lumumba on 26 Aug 2019, 23:18, edited 1 time in total.
Hasta la victoria siempre.

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Conti764
Posts: 1775
Joined: 21 Sep 2007, 23:21

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Conti764 »

RoMax wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 21:19
Ansett wrote:
26 Aug 2019, 18:35
According to CS you have to make a profit first before you are entitled to new investments. Remember ?
So far for the level playing field and for those who still believe what the guy says.
Just a few remarks:
- These A333's are (profitably) operated by SN under ACMI and contribute to a future more efficient A330 fleet management also for SN itself (yes this period of phasing in and out and cabin retrofits it's bad, any margin is gone in a split second...but once all 'new' A333's are in the fleet with new cabin, the fleet will be much more robust than the past years, and yes those 4 A333's in DUS contribute to that)
- The latest A333's for EW are not expansion, but replacements for the terribly inefficient A340's
- It's not because it was communicated that EW would stop long haul itself, that everything is dropped from one moment to the other. SN will continue to operate in DUS and SunExpress continues to operate in FRA and MUC (those are 100% under commercial control (sales, network and schedule planning, revenue management, etc) of LH itself and even the product is adapted to be more in line, like adding C class to the A332's and complimentary catering for all pax, all ground ops are LH, etc). It's just a question what they'll do with the EW brand on long haul and who takes the commercial control in DUS, like LH in FRA/MUC.
- The ex-LH A333's going to DUS are older than the 7 that SN is getting in BRU (+SFX which is of the same generation)
- These A333's keep the LH interior and except some changes in configuration and 'trim and finishes' the full cabin is hardly getting any investment
- Meanwhile SN is investing 10mio EUR in each 'new' A333 to fully renew the interior (seats, bulkheads, galleys, lighting, toilets,... everything is new or fully refurbished). It's the first time ever that SN does this.
- The combined investment of acquiring those 2nd hand 7 A333's (all are purchased by the group) + the cabin investment, is the biggest ever for SN and would have never been possible without LH.

It might be hard for some to accept that SN is not living the Swiss dream and it's a fact that a huge amount of time and money has been lost on the EW integration (even though some of the work that has been done to create a new company behind the scenes is not fully lost or useless now either), but the calimero behavior of many is a pity. It's not with such behavior that you achieve things and actually change anything to the situation.
All nice but fact remains that LH's mantra 'first make money before you get money' is foolish. All in all great additions these younger A333's, but SN isn't expanding while others are and not the least to where SN always made money: Africa.

BRU and SN are at a standstill, and one of the main reasons is the uncertainty about SN, its future and its role within Star Alliance.

C96C
Posts: 78
Joined: 03 Apr 2017, 11:51

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by C96C »

OO-SFP has a hybrid (old)LH/EW-livery, stickered?

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9419203

Image

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b.lufthansa
Posts: 165
Joined: 15 Sep 2008, 08:25

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by b.lufthansa »

C96C wrote:
27 Aug 2019, 10:26
OO-SFP has a hybrid (old)LH/EW-livery, stickered?

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/9419203
It's the new Lufthansa Group Euro White livery, a new concept André wrote about. Heavily contested by some members: https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/a-ne ... -airlines/

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