Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

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Avroflyer

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Avroflyer »

CTBke wrote:saw a picture of the OO-TCQ in sn colors at EMA Will be delivered so into SN
Could you perhaps share the picture with us? :)

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by sn26567 »

Image
André
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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by CTBke »

thanks for posting the Picture directly André couldn't do it from my phone
Citybird
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by EBAW_flyer »

So it seems it will keep the TCQ registration?

Avroflyer

Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Avroflyer »

EBAW_flyer wrote:So it seems it will keep the TCQ registration?
Indeed EBAW_flyer it will keep it's registration

Avroflyer

Re: Bru Airlines flights to Washington?

Post by Avroflyer »

OO-TCQ is already painted in our colors and should be joining the fleet rather soon, and besides that 5 A319's and 1 320 are still expected however when is not yet known (to me)...

Also rumours go that 2 a330's would be joining (1 to replace OOSFM and 1 extra)

Kapitein
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Kapitein »

OO-TCQ will arrive today in BRU.
STA: 1505LT

brusselsairlinesfan
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Re: Bru Airlines flights to Washington?

Post by brusselsairlinesfan »

Avroflyer wrote:OO-TCQ is already painted in our colors and should be joining the fleet rather soon, and besides that 5 A319's and 1 320 are still expected however when is not yet known (to me)...

Also rumours go that 2 a330's would be joining (1 to replace OOSFM and 1 extra)
Wow... this is very exciting!

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CTBke
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by CTBke »

hoera ! another new addition to the fleet... will it keep the 180 TCAB seats ?
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by JAFflyer »

reNEWal...
The plane is 12 years old... Any long term vision?

Pocahontas
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Pocahontas »

New planes have technical problems as well, don't they? Like the Dreamliner f.e. ;-)

JAFflyer
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by JAFflyer »

Pocahontas wrote:New planes have technical problems as well, don't they? Like the Dreamliner f.e. ;-)
It's not about technical problems but newer aircraft are more efficient due to production being enhanced. An a320 which is 12 years old, consumes more fuel than a new one.
The C-check of a plane of 12 years old will be more expensive than a new one, etc...

Regarding your comment about the Dreamliner: it has an impressive dispatch performance!

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KriVa
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by KriVa »

The difference in leasing/ownership costs might offset that extra cost for certain operators, though.
A new A320 will be a lot more expensive to lease than one that has been around the block.

Also, brand new airplanes have issues, they all do.(I'm not talking about new models, but actual new aircraft.)
A new aircraft will take a few weeks to months before the reliability gets decent. Brand new A320s and 737s, just to name a few models, often have slight issues in the first weeks after they have left the production line. It's considered somewhat "normal" for complex machinery.

Oh, and a 12 year old A320 that has been maintained properly still has quite a lot of life left in it.
Thomas

RTM
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by RTM »

If it has the same engines, the same shape, the same specs, I doubt the differance between a new one, and a 10 to 12 year old, or older for that matter, is that dramastic. Mind you that the lease cost is less as well. I do agree that the heavy maintenance cost willbe slightly higher.

But, I think it is wise of them to go back to profit first, you can allways decide to go to factory new aircraft later. Once you can affort it. Just look at the past... The cost of the brand new fleet certainly did not help Sabena's position...

crew1990
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by crew1990 »

Regarding flightradar24, OO-TCQ arrived safe this afternoon in brussels. Welcome to her.

Let's summurise a little bit.

Last year the fleet looks like this. (wet lease included)

16 A319, 6 A320, 1 RJ85, 12 RJ100, 8 A330, 3 Q400, 1 ERJ145 so a total of 47 aircrafts

This year, SSH came to replace the last RJ85, there were another A319 (SSI) and a new A320 (TCQ), one Q400 of Tyrolean will be leaving in June so the fleet this year is.

18 A319, 7 A320, 12 RJ100, 8 A330, Q400 and 1 ERJ145 so a total of 48 aitrcrafts.

Just one aircraft more than last year, how will SN cover the new destinations, (Ibiza, Calvi, Lourdes, Billund, Dubrovnik, Zagreb, St Petersbourg, Bordeaux and Olbia plus all the addition in frequency like Tel Aviv etc)

I know that someone said in the forum that 4 A319 and 1 A320, but this is to replace the Avro from September, not for the suummer isn't it?

And for next year what can we explect, as the SSP and the SFM shoulb be leaving, if we consider that Brussels Airlines will add indeed those A319, A320 and A330 expected, it will look like...

21 A319, 8 A320, 9 A330, less than 12 RJ100, ? Q400 and ? ERJ145

And what about the A321, I through it would be a good oportunity when the Avro leave the fleet to take a few A321 as this is a transition period when SN is in need of aircraft.

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sn26567
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by sn26567 »

Already mentioned earlier, but nice confirmation:

Brussels Airlines returns Austrian Q400 following lease-end

Brussels Airlines has returned a Dash 8-400 it had been wet-leasing from fellow Lufthansa subsidiary Austrian Airlines for the past four years, Austrian Aviation Net reports. OE-LGC (cn 4026) was recently seen back in service for its parent last week.

The Belgian carriers continues to operate a pair of Q400 wet-leased from Flybe. for use on flights from Brussels to Basle/Mulhouse/Freiburg, Billund, Birmingham, Bologna, Hamburg, Hanover, Manchester, Marseilles, Prague, Strasbourg, and Turin.

Source: ch-aviation

Is it cheaper to wet-lease from Flybe than from OS? Or did OS want its Q400 back for own use?
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by convair »

sn26567 wrote:Already mentioned earlier, but nice confirmation:

Brussels Airlines returns Austrian Q400 following lease-end

Brussels Airlines has returned a Dash 8-400 it had been wet-leasing from fellow Lufthansa subsidiary Austrian Airlines for the past four years, Austrian Aviation Net reports. OE-LGC (cn 4026) was recently seen back in service for its parent last week.

The Belgian carriers continues to operate a pair of Q400 wet-leased from Flybe. for use on flights from Brussels to Basle/Mulhouse/Freiburg, Billund, Birmingham, Bologna, Hamburg, Hanover, Manchester, Marseilles, Prague, Strasbourg, and Turin.

Source: ch-aviation

Is it cheaper to wet-lease from Flybe than from OS? Or did OS want its Q400 back for own use?
Or maybe the contract with Flybe is for a set duration, so SN could not return one of those without penalty.
For similar future leases, it would be interesting to know how the ERJ145 compares with the Q400, costwise aa well as performancewise.

Flanker2
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by Flanker2 »

With the fuel price where it is now, the ERJ145 isn't too bad a choice compared to the Q400.
The advantage is in favor of lower lease prices.

There are plenty of A319/A320 on the market now and their lease rates are very similar to E190/Q400 of similar age, so I doubt that it makes sense to take up any RJ's. Turboprops still make sense IMO, but not on wetlease and more if SN sees the benefit of opening new regional routes.

An older A319/A320 will burn a little bit more fuel and the maintenance cost goes up on everything from engines to airframe corrosion and electrical and electronics. That's in no way comparable to what new aircraft experience during the warranty period, which are covered by the manufacturer (24 to 36 months on everything and 12 years on the airframe).
Taking an airframe from another operator is a matter of due diligence (paperwork + inspections) and a big factor of luck. The first few months and years you could get surprises, as you just can't inspect everything and the nastiest surprises are usually the ones that you can't see. Also some, if not most operators tend to put the worst/oldest engines, APU's, A/C packs, avionics, landing gears and even interior trim on aircraft that are leaving the fleet, keeping the better ones inside the fleet. Sometimes there are even worse surprises in the form of major repairs that have not been carried out according to procedures or special manufacturer engineering approval...
Don't forget all the dirt, dust, FOD/lost screws and tools dropped into unreachable area's that an aircraft accumulates in years of operations, that form a risk for short circuits and blocked flight controls...

Still, a second hand A32S/B737NG, is not a bad aircraft if you don't have the money to buy new.

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MiStEr-T
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by MiStEr-T »

Don't forget all the dirt, dust, FOD/lost screws and tools dropped into unreachable area's that an aircraft accumulates in years of operations, that form a risk for short circuits and blocked flight controls...


50,000 man-hours D-check's: not enough to find a lost tool ..
:lol: :lol: :lol:

RTM
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Re: Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

Post by RTM »

Flanker2 wrote:Also some, if not most operators tend to put the worst/oldest engines, APU's, A/C packs, avionics, landing gears and even interior trim on aircraft that are leaving the fleet, keeping the better ones inside the fleet.
That is totally not how it works at all...

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