Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[shockcooling]

Play this in the crewroom?
Wake up, we have no say on this matter! We would have seen this plane leave the fleet many years ago if it was up to us

[tolipanebas]

Oh no, he actually thinks the C series is a better plane than the A319NEO for 90% of the missions the A319 is currently used on (i.e; flights under 2 hours)....

A certrain ex-member will go completely mad for hearing him giving me right, but indeed, just as i've said before, the ideal European fleet for SN would be A320 and a few A319 for the longer flights (DME, TLV, RAK etc), BUT C-series for most European flights, for the simple reason the A319(neo) is TOO MUCH plane, having TOO much range, and range/weight costs money to fly around with, even if you don't need it.

[Air Key West]

OK, but would the C100 with 110 seats at a 32 inch-seat-pitch still be economical on thin routes like most cities served in the UK (except for London, course) and thin routes on the continent like STR, SXB, LYS and a few others ? Or should there be a smaller aircraft joining the SN fleet for thin routes ?

[hvs89]

New A319 for SN, ex Mexicana :

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Brussels ... c0568fd37d

[DeltaWiskey]

Can someone summarize which planes have left the SN fleet in the past two years, and which have joined? What planes will join and leave in the near future that we know of (for sure).
Many thanks in advance!

[RoMax]

Can someone summarize which planes have left the SN fleet in the past two years, and which have joined? What planes will join and leave in the near future that we know of (for sure).
Many thanks in advance!

- 2 B734's left in 2010 (OO-VBR and OO-VE?)
- 2 A319's joined in 2010 (OO-SSC and OO-SSD)
- 1 A333 joined in 2010 (OO-SFV)
- 4 A319's should join in 2011 (OO-SSR recently arrived in BRU, OO-SSQ...)
- 2 A320's will join in 2011 (OO-SNA and OO-SNB)
(see previous page of this topic for delivery/entry into service dates of SNA, SNB, SSR, SSQ)
- 1 B733 suposed to leave for Korongo (OO-LTM)
- ...

These are the one' s I'm tinking about, maybe other members can add some like the RJ's wich are supposed to leave SN this year.

[DeltaWiskey]

Thanks, much appreciated!

What planes did leave in 2009? And more in particular, when did the BAe146 (6?) go?
(I know some them are supposed to go to AirDC/Korongo)

[airtrotter]

Can someone summarize which planes have left the SN fleet in the past two years, and which have joined? What planes will join and leave in the near future that we know of (for sure).
Many thanks in advance!

- 2 B734's left in 2010 (OO-VBR and OO-VE?)
- 2 A319's joined in 2010 (OO-SSC and OO-SSD)
- 1 A333 joined in 2010 (OO-SFV)
- 4 A319's should join in 2011 (OO-SSR recently arrived in BRU, OO-SSQ...)
- 2 A320's will join in 2011 (OO-SNA and OO-SNB)
(see previous page of this topic for delivery/entry into service dates of SNA, SNB, SSR, SSQ)
- 1 B733 suposed to leave for Korongo (OO-LTM)
- ...

These are the one' s I'm tinking about, maybe other members can add some like the RJ's wich are supposed to leave SN this year.

A319 OO-SSP will leave the fleet as well (don't know when exactly).

[RoMax]

Thanks, much appreciated!

What planes did leave in 2009? And more in particular, when did the BAe146 (6?) go?
(I know some them are supposed to go to AirDC/Korongo)

I think all 6 BAe's were stored in 2008 (maybe early 2009?), so around the start of the worldwide crisis.
Don't know if any planes joined or left SN in 2009.

btw; what's the status of these BAe's? 2 are sold, 2 are supposed to go to Korongo, 1 is scrapped? And what with the last BAe?

[Megaman]

Look at what LH is ordering and you'll have an idea of what Bru Air will be taking...

[euroflyer]

Look at what LH is ordering and you'll have an idea of what Bru Air will be taking...

well, that is not much of help I guess. LH has more or less everything (and on order) which could be interesting for SN as well: Embraer 190/195 (mainly at LH Cityline and at Air Dolomiti) as well as C-Series (supposed to go to Swiss as far as I am aware), A319/320/321 as well as 737s (well, not on order, but they are just refurbishing their -300s and -500s so obviously in order to use them for a few more years; and at OS they even have a few -600s, -700s and -800s) and they operate CRJs 700 and 900 (and still a few 200 I guess) at LH Cityline and at eurowings as well. So except for any more unusual Russian, Chinese or Japanese Jets, that are most Regional Jets and Narrowbodies you can order ... And they still operate a number of Avros as well at LH Cityline, hm ... (surprisingly with BD they have a single 757 if I am correct)

[dsa330]

also the first RJ85 going out this month (EOL c-check)

[sn26567]

surprisingly with BD they have a single 757 if I am correct

The single BD 757 (used in flights from LHR to Almaty and Bishkek) is in fact operated by Astraeus. Thus no 757 in BD's fleet.

[Air Key West]

A few days ago I read on www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl that LOT is selling its ten-year-old EMB145s.
Could they be an option for SN to fly a smaller plane (50-seater) than the AvroRJ85 to thin routes like SXB, LYS, TLS, Bordeaux, Nantes (new) and to replace the BD wet-leases to Bristol and Newcastle ? Could they also be used to open up new feeder routes for the Africa flights, for instance from AMS, DUS and LUX ?
What do you guys, the expert, think of it ? To me, at first sight, it would seem a good option, but....

[tolipanebas]

The idea SN can do with something smaller than the RJ85 is widely understood, hence them wetleasing planes of both bmi regional (*) as well as Augsburg Airways (+), however, there's a reason everybody has been dropping the E-jets quicker than a stone as of lately, so it woudn't be a wise move for SN to pick them up, not even second hand.

Far better to forego the occasion and go straight for turboprops, IMHO.
The only question is whether it's worth building a fleet of turboprops themselves, or rather have LH regional operate on behalf of SN?

The answer to this question lies in the number of turboprop planes they can make use of and that is depending on what type(s) they will replace the larger RJs with: the bigger the size of the replacement plane(s), the more room for something smaller at the low end of the new fleet and thus the bigger the chance SN will get their own fleet of turboprops.

(*) to BRS, NCL and BHX on Saturdays
(+) to HAJ

[Air Key West]

Indeed, everybody seems to get rid of their EMB145s. From a pax point of view I find it an acceptable aircraft for short flights and find it more comfortable than the Q400s (although neither of them is really comfortable unlike what Bombardier says or the airlines that operate the Q400s). Apparently the safety problems with the Q400s have been solved. Are the EMB145s so expensive to operate ?
Although I'm not a big fan of propeller aircraft (even the newer ones), I could see a point in SN getting their own propeller fleet (probably Q400s as part of the LH Group). I could imagine each Q400 operating three to four return flights to/from (clockwise) AMS, HAJ, DUS, LUX (a lot of high yield connecting pax), STR, SXB, LYS, TLS, NTE, BRS, NCL and I still think LCY should be considered (the airport is allowed to expand from 80,000 to 120,000 flights per year). Although I'm not an expert, I assume that would mean a fleet of 12 to 14 Q400s.
And you're right, when the decision is made about replacing SN's fleet, if most aircraft will be replaced by planes with a hundred seats and more, it is likely that propeller aircraft will come in to fly the thinner shorter routes.
Shouldn't we know more about this soon (April 2011) ?

[RoMax]

Buying E145's is out of the question I think, the aircraft is too expensive to operate.
About the turboprops. If SN decides to buy the E-jets as RJ replacement, a turboprop wouldn't be needed. But if they choose for the Cseries I could see them buying Q400's also. The Q400 can fly short en thin regional routes, the CS100 can fly bussier and longer regional routes and the CS300 could even replace the A319 on short 'busy' routes. Altough I have two remarks about that: what about the longer thin routes (a Q400 on a flight of 1.5-2 hours??) and it will create a wide diversity of aircraft in a rather small fleet (Q400, Cseries and A32S)...

BTW, nothing more known yet about when SN is about to decide the replacement? SN said already quite some time ago that they would probably announce the replacement late 2010/early 2011. It's now already February 2011. Is SN waiting at LH?

[liebensd]

Lufthansa has the option to buy the remaining 55% of Sn Airholding (Brussels Airlines mother company) in April.
I guess that all new announcement about routes and aircraft's will be made during or after Lufthansa has purchased those shares. If they will purchase them.

April 2011 is only mentioned in the dutch version of the Press release

Best regards,

Dave

[diminbru]

OO-SSQ has been registered on 4th of February 2011!!

[matey11]

And OO-SSQ will arrive this week on friday where it will go into hanger 117 untill +- 20/02.