Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[Bralo20]

I guess an A330 in Star Alliance livery is more likely to happen than an A350 in Brussels Airlines colours.

(just an opinion, not based on any information.)

You're right about that


The only way A350's will join the fleet is when LH decides to replace the aging A330 fleet completely and that won't happen for at least some years to come.

[teach]

The only way A350's will join the fleet is when LH decides to replace the aging A330 fleet completely and that won't happen for at least some years to come.

Even then, I doubt they'll replace them with A350s. A350 is too much airplane for what SN needs it for. If they ever decide to replace the A330s with new-builds, they're an ideal candidate for the A330neo.

[Flanker2]

At current oil prices it only makes sense to replace A330's by newer non-NEO A330's or to add more just for network expansion or more frequencies to Africa.

The A35J can make good money, especially on cargo-heavy routes.
But I doubt that this is the kind of risk SN will take at this time.

If anything, SN should really look into the A321LR for mid-haul, Africa, and BOS.
That would make alot of sense.

[Bralo20]

Not the A320 series Africa discussion again... Thought we were over that by now...

Next time I'll just keep my mouth shut.

[Airbus330lover]

perhaps with Q400 ?
Please avoid this discussion again

[teach]

If anything, SN should really look into the A321LR for mid-haul, Africa, and BOS.
That would make alot of sense.

No it wouldn't, for reasons that have been mentioned here ad nauseum: cargo!

[Boavida]

Still dreaming of a 332 in Star Alliance livery...

I'd rather dream of a SN A350

Mind you, I'm dreaming of B777's for SN (like OS and LX) to replace the old A330 fleet... A dream that'll probably never come true

[Bralo20]

Mind you, I'm dreaming of B777's for SN (like OS and LX) to replace the old A330 fleet... A dream that'll probably never come true

If we're talking Boeings I would rather see the queen back A nice 747-8i in SN colors but yes, this won't happen either.

Most realistic are A330NEO's if new ones are bought one day or another.

[Boavida]

Just thinking... If SN is fully integrated into the LH Group, wouldn't it make sense to have/buy the same aircraft types for all airlines of the group? Meaning a possibility for the 777 or even 747 for SN (in the distant future)? :think: What aircraft type is the best option for cargo (important on Africa routes I'm told)...

[convair]

Just thinking... If SN is fully integrated into the LH Group, wouldn't it make sense to have/buy the same aircraft types for all airlines of the group? Meaning a possibility for the 777 or even 747 for SN (in the distant future)? :think: What aircraft type is the best option for cargo (important on Africa routes I'm told)...

That might be a possibility for the complete fleet renewal sometimes in the future but for the forthcoming additions, if any, they will certainly be A330s.

Looking at the list of (not too old) stored planes on airfleets.net, there are only a few potential candidates: 4 Skymark's young A333s (probably too costly for SN) , 1 Philippines, a couple of Air India A332s, 2 Emirates 332s,1 Eva Air, 1THY probably unavailable, 1 or 2 Qatar, and that's about it.

[lumumba]

Why not a 747 Combi like Sabena before!?
But I don't now if Boeing is ready to develop that with the 747-8...

[OO-ITR]

If we're talking Boeings I would rather see the queen back A nice 747-8i in SN colors but yes, this won't happen either.

Most realistic are A330NEO's if new ones are bought one day or another.

I'm afraid the B747 is reserved for mother LH...

Looking at the list of (not too old) stored planes on airfleets.net, there are only a few potential candidates: 4 Skymark's young A333s (probably too costly for SN) , 1 Philippines, a couple of Air India A332s, 2 Emirates 332s,1 Eva Air, 1THY probably unavailable, 1 or 2 Qatar, and that's about it.

Finally got an answer to my question. I'm afraid that most of these A330 (Emirates, Skymark) don't have the right engines though...
and the EVA air is foreseen for Eurowings I guess...

[SFM]

I'm afraid that most of these A330 (Emirates, Skymark) don't have the right engines though...

I wouldn't be suprised if they are looking at RR-powered aircraft.
LH/LX A330's are all RR, so spare parts could be available more easily.
Also, if they are looking at A330neo or even A350 in the distant future, those are both RR exclusively. Acquiring an A330ceo with RR now would be a good transition then.
Agreed, it would be a hassle for maintenance and flight ops (with training/spare parts etc).
But in let's say 3 years, the GE's will have left the fleet (SFM/N/O), so then they would be back to two engine types.

[crew1990]

Actually I wouldn't be surprised in the long term to see some 777, the long haul aircraft are quite full every, having very a load factor of 100% in July, Augustus and Christmas period.

The priority will be to "detriangularised" the flight in Africa but in the case of New York and Kinshasa it's already the case, even the Washington is performing really well for the moment!

[Avroflyer]

Actually I wouldn't be surprised in the long term to see some 777, the long haul aircraft are quite full every, having very a load factor of 100% in July, Augustus and Christmas period.

The priority will be to "detriangularised" the flight in Africa but in the case of New York and Kinshasa it's already the case, even the Washington is performing really well for the moment!

It would surprise me if they would re-introduce Boeings into the fleet as SN is now going to a Airbus only fleet.

It would be much smarter to stick to Airbus and go with 'newer' A330's for the time being and long-term to A330neo or A350 as costs to introduce those planes would be much lower instead of having to completely re-train crews, M&E,... to operate on a Boeing

[crew1990]

Actually I wouldn't be surprised in the long term to see some 777, the long haul aircraft are quite full every, having very a load factor of 100% in July, Augustus and Christmas period.

The priority will be to "detriangularised" the flight in Africa but in the case of New York and Kinshasa it's already the case, even the Washington is performing really well for the moment!

It would surprise me if they would re-introduce Boeings into the fleet as SN is now going to a Airbus only fleet.

It would be much smarter to stick to Airbus and go with 'newer' A330's for the time being and long-term to A330neo or A350 as costs to introduce those planes would be much lower instead of having to completely re-train crews, M&E,... to operate on a Boeing

It was stupid to have a fleet of 737 and a fleet of A32S as those aircraft had the same capacity etc, so it was a logical step to harmonise the medium haul fleet. The triple 7 is something else this not comparable to the A330 which is the direct concurrent of the 767.

This is why I insist again on long term, of course for the moment SN have to stick with the A330 but later on, if they want to increase without having to increase the number flight,they will need at some point a few bigger aircraft and as the A340 are not in production and I don't see SN with the A380, the 777 is to me the best solution. Once again not for now.

SN will need anyway some aircraft other than airbus, when all the Avro will leave the fleet, the actual plan is to move to a full airbus fleet operated and have a small sub fleet of Q400 and ERJ145 operated by tier airlines. But this will be only temporary, Brussels Airlines will need to be autonomous at some point. And as they will not send the A319 to some destination like Stockolm, Florence etc they will have to get some smaller aircraft.

[crew1990]

Just my 2 cent

[lumumba]

And the Airbus A340-500 can also be a solution there are cheap or will be cheaper in the next years.
And they have a very strong play load and sure on those distance!?!?!

[Flanker2]

The A345 and B77L, B77W are all too much aircraft for SN. They are heavy and overpowered and are really meant for long range missions. Abusing them on short missions to Africa results in excess costs.

If anything, the original non-ER B773 can be quite a good aircraft for SN's missions, but at the end of the day it's still a heavier aircraft, which results in higher operating costs on short sectors.

SN should stick to A333's, but also add narrowbodies which they can use flexibly between the European network in the summer and in Africa during the winter.

The real reason why SN doesn't take up A321LR's is probably not cargo as some mention but the fact that for the same cost of a brand new A321LR NEO, they can lease an older A333. Adding a bunch of A321LR NEO adds quite a risk factor for an airline like SN, equivalent to adding similar numbers of A333's.

[crew1990]

The A345 and B77L, B77W are all too much aircraft for SN. They are heavy and overpowered and are really meant for long range missions. Abusing them on short missions to Africa results in excess costs.

If anything, the original non-ER B773 can be quite a good aircraft for SN's missions, but at the end of the day it's still a heavier aircraft, which results in higher operating costs on short sectors.

SN should stick to A333's, but also add narrowbodies which they can use flexibly between the European network in the summer and in Africa during the winter.

The real reason why SN doesn't take up A321LR's is probably not cargo as some mention but the fact that for the same cost of a brand new A321LR NEO, they can lease an older A333. Adding a bunch of A321LR NEO adds quite a risk factor for an airline like SN, equivalent to adding similar numbers of A333's.

Of course the cargo is the main reason, SN already have to leave some cargo on the ground sometimes because the aircraft is too heavy as it full. How do you wanna take all the suitcase and cargo with a A321 which is not even able to take the palet, you will hang a trailer to the aircraft? The only African route where I could see the A321 operating would be North Africa and tourist places like Cabo Verde for example but in Africa that's it.

And even if there were not cargo issue, why would SN use a A321 instead of a A330 in Africa, if the A330 are already leaving Brussels full house and SN does t have any problem to sell the ticket of almost all of the seat?