Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[Flanker2]

A321 can take pallets if it's ULD configured.
There's just more money to be made on the pax side.

2 A321LR's flying direct would burn less fuel than an A333 flying a triangle, while transporting 15% more pax.
Those additional pax will rack in more than whatever cargo revenue can achieve.
In addition, they will be available for additional missions during the day, between the Africa missions.
The pax will also benefit from shorter, direct flights.

But I'm going to stop here, as I realise that I'm starting to sound like an Airbus salesman.

[RTM]

As for available A330 airframes... Didn't KLM announce to get rid of some when the 787 starts coming in...? Young airframes with GE engines.
Switching to RR engines is also a possibility, but getting ETOPS approval may take a while (6 months) I understood. Off coarse, if you start with just one, and operate it on less ETOPS sensitive routes for half a year, that hurdle is taken, and more can be added without problems...

[tolipanebas]

Nice speculation on where A330 will come from.
Dont forget to do the same for A320: we'll be adding more than just a handful of them next spring.
If you think growth is already big this year, wait till you see about next year...

[OO-ITR]

Of course the cargo is the main reason, SN already have to leave some cargo on the ground sometimes because the aircraft is too heavy as it full. How do you wanna take all the suitcase and cargo with a A321 which is not even able to take the palet, you will hang a trailer to the aircraft? The only African route where I could see the A321 operating would be North Africa and tourist places like Cabo Verde for example but in Africa that's it.

And even if there were not cargo issue, why would SN use a A321 instead of a A330 in Africa, if the A330 are already leaving Brussels full house and SN does t have any problem to sell the ticket of almost all of the seat?

All A330s are not leaving BRU full house all year long. And when you are talking about offering more direct flights to Africa, the A321 might be a solution for the less busy months. Not sure if it will work out cargo wise but offering direct daily flights also means that you only have to take cargo for that destination only.
I know DKR is a heavy cargo station so not sure that a dialy A321 is big enough for DKR's cargo needs.

But I know for sure that SN, at a certain point, studied the A321 business case...

As for available A330 airframes... Didn't KLM announce to get rid of some when the 787 starts coming in...? Young airframes with GE engines.

Yes I also mentioned this possibility some months ago. KLM has an A330 subfleet about the size of what SN needs so that would be ideal to have a fleet of young, equal A330's.
Also KLM said lately that they will not upgrade the A330 with their newest cabin product so this probably means they will dispose of these airframes rather quickly...

[OO-ITR]

Nice speculation on where A330 will come from.
Dont forget to do the same for A320: we'll be adding more than just a handful of them next spring.
If you think growth is already big this year, wait till you see about next year...

maybe next step in a not so distant future will be to dispose of A319s and switch to A320s. This summer showed that the A319 is a becoming a bit too small. Not sure if they missed sales because of the limited seat offer....

[teach]

Nice speculation on where A330 will come from.
Dont forget to do the same for A320: we'll be adding more than just a handful of them next spring.
If you think growth is already big this year, wait till you see about next year...

maybe next step in a not so distant future will be to dispose of A319s and switch to A320s. This summer showed that the A319 is a becoming a bit too small. Not sure if they missed sales because of the limited seat offer....

You're forgetting about the RJ100s: if they want to expand capacity, they can upgrade A319 routes to A320, and have the freed up A319s replace the RJ100s when they start leaving later this year.

[brabel]

Nice speculation on where A330 will come from.
Dont forget to do the same for A320: we'll be adding more than just a handful of them next spring.
If you think growth is already big this year, wait till you see about next year...

Hmmm, looking forward already!!!

[sn26567]

Hmmm, looking forward already!!!

Thanks for your first post, brabel, and welcome to Luchtzak!

[Airbus A330]

Dont forget to do the same for A320: we'll be adding more than just a handful of them next spring.

Hello!
Do you know how many (only?) 320 will be added?

[convair]

Nice speculation on where A330 will come from.
Dont forget to do the same for A320: we'll be adding more than just a handful of them next spring.

That's even more difficult I guess. To keep abreast with the long-haul planes availability isn't simple but for the short-to-medium ones it's almost a daily task. Of course airlines have fleet managers doing just that I guess.

As for available A330 airframes... Didn't KLM announce to get rid of some when the 787 starts coming in...?

Someone here mentioned they will start receiving their 787s in 2017, a little late for SN's immediate needs, if confirmed. Also their older 330s are 332s which might be considered a little smallish for SN's needs and type of operation (triangular flights in Afi).

SN should stick to A333's, but also add narrowbodies which they can use flexibly between the European network in the summer and in Africa during the winter.

Although I don't fancy narrowbodies for long haul-flights, it is, of course, possible to use them: SN has used 319s repeatedly on DKR a few years ago whenever one of the 333s was out or in C-check; and Andre probably remembers Sabena using their 727s on East Africa destinations many years ago, albeit with a stopover in Athens or Cairo if I remember correctly.

Selecting the adequate type is, as for many things, a matter of compromise between the advantages and drawbacks, cost and expected return. But if you want to make more money, you have to invest more or invest more smartly.

Anyway, it looks like a couple of 330s would be welcome at SN: SFY is now stuck in IAD since more than a week and flights are being cancelled due to the lack of plane, and this during the high season!

[lumumba]

Why do they have to replace OO-SFM,N,O
I think they still can fly at least 7 years!
I now Airbus want oo-sfm but the 2 others can stay.

[DutchNL]

Someone here mentioned they will start receiving their 787s in 2017, a little late for SN's immediate needs, if confirmed.

The first 787 is on the FAL. Delivery in october.

[sean1982]

Someone here mentioned they will start receiving their 787s in 2017, a little late for SN's immediate needs, if confirmed.

The first 787 is on the FAL. Delivery in october.

Just thinking on the top of my head here, but why not actual 787's for SN? They are not as big as the A330's (ideal for de-triangulising, or whatever you write that :p). they are very economical, they still have very good cargo carrying capabilities and are a very nice product to offer to the customers (JAF uses it extensively as a marketing tool)

[Conti764]

Someone here mentioned they will start receiving their 787s in 2017, a little late for SN's immediate needs, if confirmed.

The first 787 is on the FAL. Delivery in october.

Just thinking on the top of my head here, but why not actual 787's for SN? They are not as big as the A330's (ideal for de-triangulising, or whatever you write that :p). they are very economical, they still have very good cargo carrying capabilities and are a very nice product to offer to the customers (JAF uses it extensively as a marketing tool)

SN is rapidly turning into an Airbus-only fleet and given still fragile economics it isn't the best idea to invest in training and maintenance for Boeings... Everything is centered around Airbus.

I don't know about leasing rates, but I assume a (younger) second hand 332 is still a lot cheaper then a brand new 787.

It's a shame the young SN didn't op for Boeing long haul. It would have given them so much more options then only an A330 for LH ops since Boeing has a more diverse portfolio and a bigger availability.

SN could still have opted for the superior A320 family for short and medium haul ops...

[RoMax]

It was a logical consequence from the Sabena legacy which ended with a Airbus focussed long haul fleet. Also at that time the A330 was a much better option given the need for a lot of cargo space for Africa, something the 767 didn't have and the 777 was too big for the small SN.

For now, 787's are too expensive (not only to buy or lease but also the transition from Airbus to Boeing) for a company like SN at this point and their availability is not good for at least 3-4 years ahead.

Current generation A330's and in the slightly longer term A330neo would do fine for SN for the years to come.

TAP maybe is a good example of what SN could do. They will go for the A330neo iso the earlier ordered A350 and the long range version of the A321neo to serve thin medium long haul routes with a high frequency.

[SFM]

Anyway, it looks like a couple of 330s would be welcome at SN: SFY is now stuck in IAD since more than a week and flights are being cancelled due to the lack of plane, and this during the high season!

Today's SN203 is not cancelled, but replaced by SN1203 at 17:00 local. Aircraft: A340-300, i think the CS-TQM which is now flying for JAF and is scheduled to land at BRU at 16:10.

[flightlover]

The SN was CS-TQZ hedding to DKR, TQM left as a JAF flight. Lined up next to each other at gates 230 and 228.

[OO-ITR]

Someone here mentioned they will start receiving their 787s in 2017, a little late for SN's immediate needs, if confirmed.

The first 787 is on the FAL. Delivery in october.

Just thinking on the top of my head here, but why not actual 787's for SN? They are not as big as the A330's (ideal for de-triangulising, or whatever you write that :p). they are very economical, they still have very good cargo carrying capabilities and are a very nice product to offer to the customers (JAF uses it extensively as a marketing tool)

Yes the B787 would indeed be the best airplane for SN, given the fact that it has three variations...
But since LH group didn't order the B787 is the reason why SN won't get them...

[crew1990]

Looks like the next A330 will be a A330-200

[OO-ITR]

Looks like the next A330 will be a A330-200

Wonder where it will come from. Any idea?