EK (Emirates) comes to BRU

[cnc]

NCB and Atlantis are not right. There are not many Belgian companies active in Dubai. And there are certainly not a lot of Belgian companies with Belgian staff in Dubai.
You have given not 1 figure. I did give you some, but no reaction.

the company i worked before entering the aviation sector is active in dubai and surroundings and has quite a few belgian staff travelling there for projects. same thing for some sister companies

[regi]

CNC: you just joined Atlantis and NCB: you are not right about the amount of Belgians. Quite a few is not a figure. Certainly not a figure that the sales and marketing department of Emirates can show to their boss to open a new route.
My number of 800 ( 2007-2008 figure ) is now upgraded by Desert Rat to 2,000 Belgians living in Dubai.
Desert Rat named some events and reasons to open a route.

Allow me to bring everybody back to reality with the latest article (about rich people who pull out of the crumbling construction boom )

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 932539.ece

Altogether, the Dubai government and its companies have more than $80 billion of debt. The emirate, which has a population of only two million, has been forced twice to approach its oil-rich neighbour in Abu Dhabi for the funds to bail it out. The federal Government has approved $15 billion in bonds and more will have to follow if Dubai’s state-owned businesses are to survive until an economic recovery can take hold.

[Atlantis]

calm down Regi. Nobody is asking figures here. It's not necessary btw because people in the business know what they are talking about and how many Belgian companies are working at Dubai with how many expats.

This topic is about "if" EK will come to BRU.

[BrightCedars]

EK and FR are two airlines where the stimulation of traffic is an important factor.

There is no way you can say that EK would never fly to BRU just because there isn't a sizeable Belgian population in Dubai or the UAE altogether.

If by 2020 they are not flying to BRU, I will accept to turn my when into an if.

[regi]

yes MEA, there is some truth in your words.
And this is what the other members NCB and Atlantis didn't seem to understand: that Emirates has other reasons to open a route than what we assume.
I don't see a reason for Emirates to come to Brussels. But I am not Emirates.
Emirates taps from several markets.
First of all regionally. That is quite simple to understand.
But all those UK destinations? Well, that is the connection partly towards Australia and New Zealand for the (ex)English flying up and down. And those planes have to get fuel , so they have the south east asian market as well.
But all those other European destinations? 4 in Germany alone. ( Hamburg, Düsseldorf, Munich and Frankfurt ) But not Amsterdam? I don't understand it, but I am sure that Emirates knows why.
The connections to the labour supplier countries is also easy to understand.
But than comes Africa. Quite an extensive network. If you have a stroll in Sandtown Shopping Mall, you hardly see African customers. But many Asians. On the tarmac of Cape Town and J'Burg, you see also quite a lot of different Asian carriers.( to name a few: Cathay Pacific, Singapore Air, ANA, Emirates, Qatar, Etihad ! , Malaysian ) Business ( minerals, gold, diamonds, textiles, sell and buy ) and even tourism.
So Emirates is a good mix of leasure and business flights, profitting of its geographical position.

If you look at their route map, you see a large white hole in the middle of western Europe. But Scandinavia is also not served.
Maybe the reason for Emirates not to come to Amsterdam, Stockholm and Brussels has something to do with the airport politics ? But again: an assumption.
Only Emirates knows better. But they won't tell us.

[Super Baloo]

I don't know if it is the real reason but I heard that EK has limited slots in AMS and that cargo pays better than PAX in AMS.
So they don't want to spoil their slots in AMS for PAX flights.

[Atlantis]

And this is what the other members NCB and Atlantis didn't seem to understand: that Emirates has other reasons to open a route than what we assume.

Off Topic

Dear Regi,

Read my first post again. I never, never gave a reason why EK should come to BRU. I really don't like it when they put words in my mouth.

[website-info]

PS: Just been looking at fares to SA and they are ridiculously cheap starting from euro 942 on Etihad to 1141 on Swiss. Anf that us January peak season to go to SA!

and from 636Euro with EK from DUS....... still for Jan departures

[Acid-drop]

For cargo, we see something this kind of stuff in LGG
this is today: ETA 14:00 UAE9905 OOTHB

(note they normally used OO-THC and OO-THD painted in Emirates colours, but they swap very often between TNT and EK)

It's not really a scheduled service, but it happens
For current Emirates SkyCargo destinations : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emirates_S ... stinations

[b720]

Regi,

Reason for all those regional destinations in the UK, apart from transfer pax to australia and Asia. keep in mind almost 100,000 UK citizens live in the UAE. The country was under british rule, hence the connection.. Every Emirati's first destination of choice in Europe is the UK, they send their children to schools and universties to the UK. and over 1,000,000 UK tourists visited the UAE (Mostly Dubai) in 2007.

Similar situation for germany when it comes to tourism, Germany is a major source of tourism for Dubai, business too of course. Emirates has dozens of flights per day to the UK, but I think that they can fill one flight daily from Brussels, as Dubai can be sold to Belgians as a tourist destination.. adding, southeren NL, Lux.. Western France.. plus the business connections (maigre as it might be) and last but not least transfer pax to India, pakistan, Iran (sizable iranian, pakistani, and indian population in Benelux).. Asia (tourism and busniess) and other destinations in the middle east.

[BrightCedars]

I believe one factor in EK's expansion policy is that they consider an entire country as a market. When they established the UK and Germany, they rolled an impressive marketing machine and the objective was to provide a massive coverage of the targeted country at many airports. Of course, only the UK and Germany offer this possibility. Italy does to a smaller extend, and France is known to be difficult at regional airports.

For info, list of EK destinations by European countries and language groups:

English (5): UK (5): LON, BHX, MAN, NCL, GLA
French (2): FR (2): CDG, NCE
German (6): DE (4): HAM, DUS, FRA, MUC + AT (1) VIE + CH (1) ZRH: in the German language market
Italian (3): IT (3): MIL, VCE, ROM
Others (5): MLA, IST, ATH, LCA, MOW

If one calls in to the EK website, on the first page he has to choose a region and country. It is quite interesting to note that Belgium and Holland are listed there (without a Dutch option), as well as a host of Scandivian and Baltic States alongside Poland. All other options are currently served by EK. This could point at what the not too distant future holds as far as EK expansion in Europe is concerned. The Benelux might be listed there because it is actually an option to take the Thalys to Paris or to drive down to CDG or East to DUS. As for Northern Europe, this may be linked to EK's known wish of opening up CPH soon or later.

[regi]

end of the dream: gone are the expat customers.

Dubai's expats fear for their future
Published: 27/11/2009 at 10:36 PM
Online news: Breakingnews

Many of Dubai's large expatriate population are anxious about their future after the shock news of the emirate's financial difficulties, revealed just before the long weekend of the Eid al-Adha Muslim holiday.

"My opinion is that things are going to be worse in terms of stock market, real estate, business,'' said Rami Nasser, a 45 year-old sales manager.

"Dubai worked very hard for so many years on its image and to establish itself as a finance hub. I am not sure they will be able to regain the reputation of stability,'' he said, adding: "Maybe big companies will start leaving now.''

The Dubai government chose the eve of the four-day break on Wednesday to announce that flagship state-controlled conglomerate Dubai World is seeking to suspend payments on its debt for the next six months.

But people maintained a holiday mood in Dubai on Friday, thronging shopping malls for the seasonal special attractions and clogging up the roads with their cars.

As in previous holiday periods, tourists flocked to Dubai from the Gulf region and further away, filling luxury hotels that include the world's only declared seven-star establishment, the Burj Al-Arab.

But many of the expatriates who form the majority of the city state's population feel that the buzz had already gone from once-booming Dubai before the shock announcement from the owners of the Nakheel construction company, whose Palm Jumeirah artificial island symbolised the emirate's ambitions.

In Dubai's boom years from the start of the decade, property prices quadrupled and the population swelled as people flocked to work in the glitzy city.

At the end of 2007, the UAE was estimated to have a total population of 6.4 million people of whom 5.5 million were foreigners. More than three million were registered with the ministry of labour as workers.

Now the picture is very different. Property prices have slumped by 50 percent from their peak in mid-2008 and many foreign workers have left in the wake of mass redundancies as hundreds of projects in Dubai and other cities in the United Arab Emirates were put on hold.

"The situation was already bad and I was sacked this year because of the crisis. Now I think I will pack my things and leave to find another job elsewhere,'' Abdel Halim Ahmad, a commercial manager in the construction sector, said on Friday.

He believes the emirate of Dubai will survive but "I think mega projects will not be financed anymore. It is very worrying, and jobs will go down,'' the 50 year-old Syrian said.

Briton Dawn Evans feels Dubai's downfall was its over-reliance on the property sector, although she worked in the industry herself.

Evans was made redundant eight months ago and is sueing for damages. "A country cannot rely on real estate,'' she said. "The boom was too quick; there was no proper planning.''

Julien Daim, a businessman aged 46, regards Dubai's financial difficulties as "very serious even though newspapers try to be reassuring.''

"I think the months to come are going to be very difficult,'' he said.

However, Daim is pleased about one aspect of the crisis. "I think real estate prices will go further more down,'' making homes more affordable for ordinary people.

[NCB]

It's a true picture of what is going on now in Dubai.
However you must analyse the content of the article to use it as an argument.

Who are the expats that are being kicked out right now?
Yes, the low-wage low-skilled workers being Indians, the Bangladeshi and the Pakistani's.

Many Western expats don't register as residents, they typically work between Europe and Dubai.
Those Western people who are registered as residents won't come back now, as the cost of redeployment after the crisis would be horrendous.
Smaller companies don't work with registered expats because they can't afford that status, but surely will be calling local personel back only if that staff would be more productive being over here.

The best companies will keep working with the reduced amount of contracts, the semi-professionals who don't really belong there get kicked out. Belgian comapnies are reknown for their savoir-faire, so don't be too worried. The media also tends to exagerate things, just look at what they did over the past 2 years to the world economy.

[Atlantis]

Only in Dutch: Emirates and Qatar wants to start up flights from Schiphol

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=32931

[RoMax]

OK, let EK flying to AMS and leave the Star Alliance company's for BRU.
Qatar is an other case, I would be dissapointed if Qatar will fly to AMS but not to BRU.

[1V1]

1. The relocation of expats is almost always paid by the company.
2. Dubai is part of the UAE. Abu Dhabi alone is sitting on around 800 billion cash. What is 80 billion in this case?
3. EK German destinations can be explained by the agreement between the 2 govs in the 80's when Lufthansa needed Sharja as a cargo hub.
4. Lots of EK destinations have large Indian populations (ex. UK).
5. Most of the EK traffic is generated by connecting east and west with DXB as a hub. In 2008 24.5 million pax. How many with destination DXB ?
6. EK was about to open Copenhagen as a destination when the cartoon problems popped up. Ops were delayed.
7. Actually when EK starts flying to a new destination they generate extra traffic. The probability of seeing new carriers in Bru is larger than losing the ones already flying into Bru.
8. EK commercial is very (and I mean very) efficient in filling up aircraft.

All this can be found on the net.

[Established02]

3. EK German destinations can be explained by the agreement between the 2 govs in the 80's when Lufthansa needed Sharja as a cargo hub.

1V1, any idea for what period these agreements have been signed? 30 years or something? Indefinitely?

What are the chances that Germany or any other country might ever review these "open skies"(?) agreements with DXB/UAE?

It's probably unlikely that an EU country would seek to try and protect its aviation market, while the EU may be lobbying to obtain free markets in various other commercial areas.

[dna]

All the financial problems in Dubai made me wonder what the financial situation of Emirates actually is. I know there have been complaints from other airlines (Qantas e.g.) about the lack of a level playing field when Emirates developed its flights into Australia. Does anybody know any figures?

[Established02]

All the financial problems in Dubai made me wonder what the financial situation of Emirates actually is.

Interesting thread.

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forum ... n/4620616/

Shares Hit By Dubai Debt Problems - EK Effect?

[Vexje]

3. EK German destinations can be explained by the agreement between the 2 govs in the 80's when Lufthansa needed Sharja as a cargo hub.

1V1, any idea for what period these agreements have been signed? 30 years or something? Indefinitely?

What are the chances that Germany or any other country might ever review these "open skies"(?) agreements with DXB/UAE?

It's probably unlikely that an EU country would seek to try and protect its aviation market, while the EU may be lobbying to obtain free markets in various other commercial areas.

Establlished02: here is your reply

http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/2009-11-16-01.htm