EK (Emirates) comes to BRU

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NCB

EK (Emirates) comes to BRU

Post by NCB »

BRU is now being disserved by EY, but will EK come in the near future?
It would seem obvious, they have such a huge fleet and a huge orderbook, with 8 upcoming A380 deliveries in the next 12 months and upcoming B77W deliveries, surely they'll have to shift within their fleet and come with an A332 to BRU at some point.
On top of feeding to Middle-East/Asia/Oceania, alot of Belgian construction companies work in Dubai, a direct link could be interesting. (not that real estate is doing well now, but...)

Any rumours or news regarding this?
Last edited by sn26567 on 07 Sep 2014, 10:58, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title amended to reflect change of situation

b720
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by b720 »

Diamond link too.. Antwerp-Dubai-India.. quite a lot of demand for a direct BRU-DXB link.

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BrightCedars
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by BrightCedars »

I'm sure it's more a matter of when than if, but then it could still be a while. It may also depend on how the Sheiks see the future of both EK and EY now that Abu Dhabi is taking over most of Dubai's liabilities.

EK's network is very vast and I'm sure a daily A332 wouldn't be a waste.

regi
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by regi »

Dear NCB:
there are not a lot of Belgian construction companies working in Dubai. Just some. Let us say a handful.
These companies have their local representatives. And most of the labour is done by cheap labourers from poor south (east) asian countries.
One of these engineers of those dredging companies is a close neighbour. There are very few Belgians on board or on shore. Just some specialists. And the travelling engineers live with the fact that most of their destinations are not served by direct links but need a transfer at LHR, FRA,AMS or CDG.
There are about 800 Belgians living as expats in Dubai. Compare this number to the 50,000 Belgians in South-Africa , where we stil have no Belgian direct connection with ( anymore ) , and I have made up my mind.

What flying Emirates concerns, every Belgian living east of Brussels can reach Düsseldorf in 60 to 90 minutes, and parking at DUS is quite cheap.

But I don't want to be completely negative : maybe we could welcome Emirates Cargo at Ostend Airport?

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BrightCedars
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by BrightCedars »

regi wrote:there are not a lot of Belgian construction companies working in Dubai. Just some. Let us say a handful.
These companies have their local representatives. And most of the labour is done by cheap labourers from poor south (east) asian countries.
One of these engineers of those dredging companies is a close neighbour. There are very few Belgians on board or on shore. Just some specialists. And the travelling engineers live with the fact that most of their destinations are not served by direct links but need a transfer at LHR, FRA,AMS or CDG.
There are about 800 Belgians living as expats in Dubai. Compare this number to the 50,000 Belgians in South-Africa , where we stil have no Belgian direct connection with ( anymore ) , and I have made up my mind.

What flying Emirates concerns, every Belgian living east of Brussels can reach Düsseldorf in 60 to 90 minutes, and parking at DUS is quite cheap.

But I don't want to be completely negative : maybe we could welcome Emirates Cargo at Ostend Airport?
Dear regi,

Does EK have a habit to pick destinations based on the share of foreign population it holds in Dubai or the UAE? I don't think so.

EK is a network carrier which relies on a central hub to connect anything East with anything West, and North and South to some extent. BRU has what is needed to be part of such a game. And to levy the front of the plane pax that they could take from others, they can't expect DUS to be a serious alternative. BE and NL trafic at DUS is just a bit of icing on an already very good cake.

As for operating Cargo flights into OST, I don't think it is EK's habit of operating to secondary airports. I'm sure they're happy with AMS already. EK is bound to open the Low Countries soon or late.

eurojet
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by eurojet »

Hi Regi,

living in Luxembourg and flying EK regularly out of Dusseldorf and Frankfurt: he Dusseldorf flights easily have in Y 40-50% Dutchies and loads of Belgians. If you live Liege/Hasselt it is a 90 miutes drive, even from Antwerps it is not that far (definately not more difficult to reach than someone living in Bruges who needs to take a plane at 08.00 AM out of BRU). So the DUS flight already covers part of the market, and I even regularly see Belgian and Dutch out of the FRA flights (actually, not that far neither, and if booked in advance, cheap parking as well). AMS could perfectly have a daily EK to Dubai, will be mostly Y-class and low-yield, though .. As to a daily BRU? No, the BRU market is just not big enough to sustain daily, only now Etihad is doing fine, and I think not even them are daily. The number of ex-pats in Dubai is indeed too low, and Belgians are not as big Asia/OZ travellers as the Dutch ... EK on top of it muist make its money out of C/J/F class tickets (not the EUR 390 to Singapore I once had), and the C/J/F market out of Brussels long-haul is too small as well.

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RoMax
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by RoMax »

eurojet: Indeed Etihad isn't flying daily between Abu Dhabi and BRU but 6 times a week with a A332. And the market for Dubai is even bigger so I believe a non-stop service 4-7 times a week must be possible with a A332.

b720
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by b720 »

A daily EK service is definitely viable.... think of traffic to asia, other gulf countries, iran, India,australia..plus increased tourist traffic to DXB from BE. They can even promote tourism in tandem with their "new" direct flight..I think they will do well, and even drive EY out of BRU. Maybe that is a reason EK has not introduced BRU.. EY introduced GVA a couple of years ago, they promoted AUH agressively as a tourist destination, that worked..all Swiss travel agencies (romand swiss) started selling packages and trips to AUH, proved quite succesful, when just before the introduction of the AUH-GVA service, no one had heard of AUH in Geneva.. EK will not even need to publicize DUBAI to the Belgian - and dutch from South NL -holiday maker. Premium Holiday makers from Belgium, and South NL, plus business pax (diamonds, construction, water management ..oil etc) and connecting pax east of dubai and other gulf states will certainly justify daily sevice BRU-DXB.

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Atlantis
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by Atlantis »

The announcement of EK is just a matter of time. They are waiting of new aircraft, 2010, before starting flights to BRU and this with A330 equipment.

@NCB

I know what you mean about the Belgian contruction companies. You mean Jan De Nul, Deme, Basix,etc.
You have right in the way that a lot of other Belgian companies are also involved in the contructions in Dubai.
F.e. Creneau in Hasselt is one of the "big" Belgian companies who are doing the stylish of hotels, etc. But they are not in the news and nobody knows it but they are major important.

regi
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by regi »

hold on, hold on, this is completely going the wrong way.
First of all to Bright Cedars: it was not me who suggested that Emirates would come to Brussels. It was NCB. And his argument that Belgian construction companies work in Dubai was for me not an argument.

I do repeat now also to "Atlantis" that not a lot of Belgian construction companies are active in Dubai. Just some. And certainly not enough to start up a continuous link. As I said: most companies have a representative based as an expat at Dubai for the daily follow up . E.g. Massive ( the lighting company ) was already from the beginning of the expansion active at Dubai. But it doesn't mean that they demand a direct link. Most of the stuff comes from China. And R&D is in Belgium. The local agent takes care of the projects.

What that cargo activity to Ostend concerns: I thought you would understand the cynism behind it, regarding the utterly useless remarks made by some members. It was a joke. :roll:

And to Eurojet: I live in Bruges. I have driven to Düsseldorf for a Emirates flight. And I will not do it again. The ticket was cheap. But the 10 abreast in the B777 was 1 too much. ( too narrow seat ) And the seat pitch is also unpleasant. Counting 0.30 euro a km ( fuel + wear ) , it would cost me now 180 euro only to drive to Düsseldorf. Without parking fee.
Nope, give me Etihad. Wider seats in every direction. Smaller but easier airport at the new Abu Dhabi terminal. Departure from Brussels after a 1 hour drive instead of 3 hours to DUS.
Alternatives? Egypt Air, also directly from Brussels, to Cairo and further to Dubai. Cheaper than Emirates. ( and to make NCB happy: with a narrow body A320 from Brussels to Africa ( Cairo) , see other posting ;) )

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Vinnie-Winnie
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by Vinnie-Winnie »

The fact that Emirates hasn't come to Brussels yet shows the weakness of the market ex-bru. Can only see 3 reasons why they haven't come:

- Special agreement with Etihad (Maybe who knows)
- Low yields (Ie not enough business Pax)
- Not enough demand overall

Low yields to me sounds the most plausible explanation although the fact that Newcastle and Glasgow have a service make me think that not enough demand may be a better reason (Can't see more business pax than bru from both destinations) As to whether there is a special agreement with Etihad well Atlantis post makes me wonder whether the deal between Etihad & Emirates doesn't end beginning of January 2010.

Point is if you get Emirates you can bye bye to all direct flights to southeast Asia from Bru!

NCB

Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by NCB »

Atlantis is correct.There are many companies with offices in Belgium, ranging from smaller SME's to big companies. Many companies with different assignments: structural engineering to interior design and IT. There's local expats working on the projects but there's also alot of travelling for business and sales.
Many many companies that never make the news.
Dubai is also gradually becoming a trading center, which could be interesting to attract some businessmen.

There's some low-yield VFR traffic potential with the expats and the boring desert does make people long to return to their beloved country. I think that the gold for EK is in the high-yield business passengers, connections to Southern Asia and to some extent, Oceania, the VFR would be the cost-coverer.
EK's motto is cheap with a good service (though I'm not a fan of their product), BRU should be able to sustain a 3-4 x weekly service with A332 equipment.

I know many people who travel regularily between Dubai and Belgium and complain about the inconvenience of travelling through Abu-Dhabi. 8 hours of flying, then 2 hours ride if you're lucky and there is no traffic jam in the middle of the desert...

regi
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by regi »

NCB and Atlantis are not right. There are not many Belgian companies active in Dubai. And there are certainly not a lot of Belgian companies with Belgian staff in Dubai.
You have given not 1 figure. I did give you some, but no reaction.

Population: 1.5 million inhabitants of which only a good quarter of a million have the UAE nationality. 85% of the other inhabitants is of asian decent - for who there is less reason to travel directly towards Brussels than the handful bored Belgian expats, technicians, civil engineers and business people. So that leaves a market of less than 200,000 non-asian and non-UAE people. Those 200,000 are Africans ( trade ) , Lebanese ( refugee traders ) , Americans ( oil + gas + defence ) , quite some UK inhabitants and, surprise surprise 800 Belgians.

Your first argument was that there are many Belgian construction companies at Dubai. Not true. Just a handful. ( e.g. Joachim Coens lived and worked for Besix in Dubai between 1990 and 1992 - without a direct connection Brussels-Dubai. He could fly KLM which used Dubai to fuel the old B747's towards Asia )

Than you add interior design. OK. I am still listening. How many please? Figures, estimations?

Now you add IT. Good gracious. A great surprise for me to read that so many Belgian IT people live and work in Dubai that Emirates should send 3 to 4 airplanes a week to Brussels , to shuttle them over.

Another argument: those Belgian expats are bored about the desert. So Emirates should relieve them from the desert stress.

Trade is an argument. But trade was always the main reason of existance of Dubai. And still, there is no direct flight between Brussels and Dubai. Those airline guys must be really stupid that they didn't see this golden opportunity. :roll:
I wouldn't mind if Emirates would come to Brussels. But why should they? The chocolates?

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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by Desert Rat »

Around 2000 belgians in the UAE, going back to Belgium @ an average of twice a year...

Many visitors coming for business, Big 5, gulf food, gitex,Dubai Airshow,Military Expo,etc...

How many Belgian pilots in Emirates or working for DNATA, Dubai Airport, Jebel Ali airport project...

Many families coming to visit their expat relatives in the UAE, it makes a lot of traffic and a lot of cargo...

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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by Acid-drop »

The demand can be created after the line is created. Look only ryanair for proof ;)

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1V1
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by 1V1 »

EK is not coming to BRU. As an EK crewmember I wish they were, but they have no plans to fly into Bru in the near future.

NCB

Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by NCB »

Keep us posted 1V1.

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Conti764
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by Conti764 »

I hope EK will never come to BRU, actually...
With al due respect to them, but they fly to everywhere in the world, so they are not 'exclusive' in my opinion. EY is more exclusive and prestigious since they seem to be selecting their destinations. And even more important is the fact that BRU would loose some potentially new airlines whitch will loose a reason to fly to BRU since EK would take care of that market...

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Vinnie-Winnie
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by Vinnie-Winnie »

Conti764 wrote:I hope EK will never come to BRU, actually...
With al due respect to them, but they fly to everywhere in the world, so they are not 'exclusive' in my opinion. EY is more exclusive and prestigious since they seem to be selecting their destinations. And even more important is the fact that BRU would loose some potentially new airlines whitch will loose a reason to fly to BRU since EK would take care of that market...
Well not being funny here but if you want to have the exclusive package you rent a private plane, and if you think Emirates is crap well think again it is the best company I have ever flown in Y and is way superior than many companies in terms of class, amenities and service. And having had a peak at C I can tell you it is wow!

As I said above the fact that EK doesn't come to BRU shows that there is a little market to Asia and that the limited amount of traffic has already sufficiently been funelled through neighbouring airports. And don't forget EK also flies to South Africa which even though a little uncompetitive in terms of time work for the amounts of Belgians that apparently live in South Africa!

It shows.

PS: Just been looking at fares to SA and they are ridiculously cheap starting from euro 942 on Etihad to 1141 on Swiss. Anf that us January peak season to go to SA!

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Conti764
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Re: Will EK (Emirates) come to BRU?

Post by Conti764 »

Vinnie-Winnie wrote: Well not being funny here but if you want to have the exclusive package you rent a private plane, and if you think Emirates is crap well think again it is the best company I have ever flown in Y and is way superior than many companies in terms of class, amenities and service. And having had a peak at C I can tell you it is wow!
Now don't put words in my mouth, please :roll: I hate it when people do so. Nowhere I've said EK is crap, I have never flown the company so I wouldn't know.
Etihad is more exclusive in an airport point of view, since Emirates seems to fly to everywhere in the world or at least seems to have the goal to do so while Etihad is more selecting their destinations. EK flying to BRU means we (BRU) will loose some 'maybe'-routes which will be flown by EK trough their DXB hub. You have said it yourself, but I've red it after I replied...
As I said above the fact that EK doesn't come to BRU shows that there is a little market to Asia and that the limited amount of traffic has already sufficiently been funelled through neighbouring airports. And don't forget EK also flies to South Africa which even though a little uncompetitive in terms of time work for the amounts of Belgians that apparently live in South Africa!
Yes, and if EK would come to BRU, we would loose the small chance we have of some Asian airlines flying to BRU. I (as an aviation enthousiast) prefer a diversity of planes at my home airport in stead of one mega carrier.

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