I suppose we will know more about the LX A343's wich would go to SN as from the moment SN is a full LH daughter. If LX indeed wants A346's and replaces some of their A343's, I think SN could be a serious candidate to get these. They could start flights to JNB with it (just an exemple, I don't know if SN has a future with South African flights, especially when they have Korongo) and maybe even some of the existing AFI flights? AF (and LH also, altough very limited) is also using A343's to AFI. So maybe some high demand routes could get an A340 (SN could offer more capacity on such routes without operating more flights, wich could be good for SN as they have a limited long haul fleet).
It's just an idea, I'm not a specialist, so I don't know if it's a good idea to operate A343's on some AFI routes (I just think about AF wich is using A343's to some AFI destinations). So don't get irritated if it's a stupid idea.
I suppose we will know more about the LX A343's wich would go to SN as from the moment SN is a full LH daughter. If LX indeed wants A346's and replaces some of their A343's, I think SN could be a serious candidate to get these. They could start flights to JNB with it (just an exemple, I don't know if SN has a future with South African flights, especially when they have Korongo) and maybe even some of the existing AFI flights? AF (and LH also, altough very limited) is also using A343's to AFI. So maybe some high demand routes could get an A340 (SN could offer more capacity on such routes without operating more flights, wich could be good for SN as they have a limited long haul fleet).
It's just an idea, I'm not a specialist, so I don't know if it's a good idea to operate A343's on some AFI routes (I just think about AF wich is using A343's to some AFI destinations). So don't get irritated if it's a stupid idea.
The A330 has the same capacity as the A340, both in seatnumbers and cargo. The only advantage the A340 has over the A330 is its range and so it would be a waste to operate the A340 into markets the A330 could easily do. For temporary operations it might be a good idea until more A330's come available (either second hand or new builds) but for the majority of SN's Africa portfolio the A330 is the perfect plane.
Conti764 wrote:
The A330 has the same capacity as the A340, both in seatnumbers and cargo. The only advantage the A340 has over the A330 is its range and so it would be a waste to operate the A340 into markets the A330 could easily do. For temporary operations it might be a good idea until more A330's come available (either second hand or new builds) but for the majority of SN's Africa portfolio the A330 is the perfect plane.
Indeed, I made a mistake about the A333 and A343's capacity, it's the same. But what you often see is at an airline operating both A343 and A333 (SAS, LX, LH, TK...) is that they have more business/first class seats on their A343's resulting in a lower total seat capacity. Could SN place more business class seats in the A343's as there are some AFI destinations wich could use some more business seat capacity (FIH...) and could this (more premium pax, so higher yields) compensate the higher operating costs of the A343?
It's just an idea based on rumours that SN will get some A343, but if LX really wants to replace some A343's, SN could use them as a temporary solution as A333's are still not widley available on the market.
If four LX A340s could go to SN, two could be used to fly to SFO daily (SFO was suggested as a future SN destination by Gustin). Could one A340 be a back up plane for the A330s, so that the current A330s could operate 7 days a week ? Any suggestion as to the use of the fourth A340 ? Perhaps a daily FIH flight with more Business class seats as suggested by Mr_Boeing ?
I've said it in one of my other posts. These are just ideas based on the rumours of A343's for SN. Nobody says this will happen or that we want this to happen. As long as SN is not a full LH daughter we don't know what plans the LH group has with SN, nobody knows this. So as long as we don't know anything for sure, there is nothing wrong with reacting on rumours, isn't it.
I don't think this is dreaming... (at least I've other dreams about SN than operating 4-5 old A343 :p )
I've said it in one of my other posts. These are just ideas based on the rumours of A343's for SN. Nobody says this will happen or that we want this to happen. As long as SN is not a full LH daughter we don't know what plans the LH group has with SN, nobody knows this. So as long as we don't know anything for sure, there is nothing wrong with reacting on rumours, isn't it.
I don't think this is dreaming... (at least I've other dreams about SN than operating 4-5 old A343 :p )
nah, i bet you dream of them at night and have pic's of them under your pillow.
But my post was meanth as a bit of a humouristic reaction honestly .
nothing wrong with lets call it "speculatating about rumours"
What are the advantages of the 346 against the 343?
Why is Swiss getting rid of their 343?
Because I know other airlines do the opposite, and are getting rid of their 346 but keep the 343.
Bigger capacity seatwise and lots of it in the upper classes?
Those airlines dropping their 346's, do they drop them in favor of the 777? If that's the case, that's probably the reason why LX will acquire 346's since T7's are not an option in an Airbusdominated widebody fleet.
Conti764 wrote:
Those airlines dropping their 346's, do they drop them in favor of the 777? If that's the case, that's probably the reason why LX will acquire 346's since T7's are not an option in an Airbusdominated widebody fleet.
airlines dropping the A340 because they have newer more efficient birds that can do the same job.
that doesn't mean all airlines share the same vision, look at DL as they are adding more 744's to the fleet in times when most are ditching them
Conti764 wrote:
Those airlines dropping their 346's, do they drop them in favor of the 777? If that's the case, that's probably the reason why LX will acquire 346's since T7's are not an option in an Airbusdominated widebody fleet.
airlines dropping the A340 because they have newer more efficient birds that can do the same job.
that doesn't mean all airlines share the same vision, look at DL as they are adding more 744's to the fleet in times when most are ditching them
The 744 is an airplane in its own class. Sure, you have the A380, but they play in another league then the 744. The A340 on the other hand got killed by the more efficient twin engine 777. Another factor to take into acount is the fact the 747 was on its own for decades. At a certain time it was the only widebody, later it was the only plane for certain markets. So there are hundreds of them still flying around which come available on the second hand market. The A340 always was in competition with the 777 which won the race, mainly due to the 77E and the 77W.
Conti764 wrote:The A340 always was in competition with the 777 which won the race, mainly due to the 77E and the 77W.
no it wasn't, the A340 is older then the 777, the A346 was the airbus answer to boeing's 744.
its true the 777 and the improved A330 made the A340's obsolete but the 77W also killed the 744 sales.
Why LX now takes more A346's and DL more 744's is obvious, cheap aircrafts and fleet commonality can save more then expensive fuel efficient planes when urgent extra capacity is needed
I wonder, what airlines have dropped the A346? Not so many.
It's almost as efficient as a B77W and depending on route and ETOPS rating, it could outperform the B77W in operating cost. LH is very happy with their A346's.
I'll add a new type to the speculation mill: B752.
Maybe some could be freed up by the UA/CO merger? UA-CO have almost 150 B757's, some relatively young and the merger will mean that they will start operating less overlapping transcon and trans-oceanic routes, switch to larger aircraft and get rid of smaller aircraft operating thin long routes.
It would make sense for African operations because it has low operating and ownership cost, excellent cargo capabilities (5 tons with max pax, only bulk/no ULD unfortunately, but with a telescopic loading system) and it would also make sense to operate some African routes in combination with transcon routes to achieve a high utilisation rate ( 3 sectors per day). This could work for a combination like BRU-OUA-BRU-BOS-BRU and BRU-NIM-BRU-JFK-BRU and routes like TLV and DME.
It wouldn't be too hard to find pilots and mechanics with ratings because of the former large EAT presence at BRU.
Cargo revenue, higher margin point to point operations, more frequencies to Africa, relatively cheap to acquire and low-risk for BRU-US East Coast operations. Someone here had previously suggested the option and I think that it deserved more attention.
NCB wrote:I wonder, what airlines have dropped the A346? Not so many.
Ok.
A friend of mine told me at least Cathay has.
But don't know if it's because of cost/lease/etc...
And they are keeping the 343, but perhaps because they own them. Not sure though.
When discussing the A340, one needs to understand it actually comprises 2 very different planes, the A346 (which is a 744ER competitor) and the A343 (which is an MD-11 competitor). Making comments about 'the' A340' is thus difficult, but if one has to make a generalisation I'd say the most successful competitor to the A340 isn't so much the 777, but rather the A330.
That's right: reading through the comments posted, it may come as a surprise to many here , but the only version of the 777 which is indeed superior to its Airbus counterpart is the top model, the 77W (aka 777-3ER); all other and smaller 777 versions have been beaten by the lighter Airbus counterpart the A343.
As such, the A343 is a fantastic plane, it's just that the A333 has made tremendous efficiency gains and has thus gained a lot of range over its life, so much even it is now almost overlapping almost the entire mission profile of the A343, apart from the ETOPS niche or the hot/high airports.
Whereas before airlines often needed an A343 to reach their long haul destinations comfortably, the latest A333 versions can now do those missions too and since it is cheaper to operate, it has basically pushed its sistership the A343 aside, just as it has also pushed aside the far heavier 77E (777-200E) not to mention the now completely obsolete 77A (the 777-200). It's precisely why an airline like SQ for instance is dumping all its 77Es in favour of brandnew A333s.
tolipanebas wrote:
As such, the A343 is a fantastic plane, it's just that the A333 has made tremendous efficiency gains and has thus gained a lot of range over its life, so much even it is now almost overlapping almost the entire mission profile of the A343, apart from the ETOPS niche or the hot/high airports.
It's precisely why an airline like SQ for instance is dumping all its 77Es in favour of brandnew A333s.
You probably mean dumped the 77E as SQ only has 2 A330-300s on order (the other 17 A330-300s are leased).
BTW the only airline which has "dumped" the A340-600 is Emirates. They ordered a few but never took delivery of their A340-600s. Depending on the mission, the A340-600 can be a great aircraft (I reckon IB is very keen on its A340-600s).
Air Key West wrote:If four LX A340s could go to SN, two could be used to fly to SFO daily (SFO was suggested as a future SN destination by Gustin). Could one A340 be a back up plane for the A330s, so that the current A330s could operate 7 days a week ?
Getting 4 A340s next to the 5 A330-300s would mean a very big increase in supply out of BRU. I wonder if SN can fill these planes profitably (we don't want it to go under again). Having just 1 or 2 A340s is probably not economical. Therefore it would make more sense when a few of the A330-300s currently on order by LH Group (they still have 10 to be delivered) go to SN rather than introducing a new aircraft type at SN. In the end, if LH takes over the remaining part of SN who cares which airline logo is on the plane if the holding company is the same.
Then BRU doesn't need to wait for NH to restore the former air link with Japan.:angel:
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